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I cant understand why everyone wants the club season to run into the following year - just to keep a few counties who want a load of club championship dead rubbers.
But - its a free country and each gaa unit should be free to do what they want in the time available.
For the Central fixtures of the GAA they should just set out 2026 dates now and let each county sort themselves out.
Why delay competitions for the many to suit the few.
League football - 24th Jan - 18th April including finals
League Hurling - 31st Jan to 18th April including finals
Provincial Football - 25th April to 30th May - let each province decide what they want to do
Provincial Hurling - 2nd - 4th May to 20/21st June
Sam McGuire & Tailteann Football starts on 6/7th June
McCarthy Cup hurling starts on 27/28th June
Football, Tailteann and Hurling finals on 1st -3rd August
Leinster/ulster prelim rds & Connacht/Munster q finals - 11th Oct
Leinster/Ulster q finals & Connacht/Munster semi finals - 25th O
Leinster/Ulster semis & Connacht/Munster finals - 8th Nov
All Ireland q finals & Leinster/Ulster finals - 22nd Nov
All Ireland Semis - 6th Dec
All Ireland Club finals - 20th Dec
Provincials can be seeded if they want to, so more successful counties can enter provincials later
Counties can nominate any club they want - could be 2025 county champions if they cant complete 2026 championship in time.
The above should suit the Wexford lads as they can continue to play their county club championships in November and December after their nominated rep gets knocked out early (as has been the case for the past 10 years- which tells its own tale on the effect of having a prolonged club championship where the average are kept in it longer than they should be - ensuring the best teams are not battle hardened for the provincial championship)
Sigerson & Fitzgibbon cup - undergraduates only
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1278 - 03/03/2025 10:43:53
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You wouldn't necessarily increase dead rubbers that much by increasing the number of games if a competition is well designed.
The inter county season is too long.
You've got a Dublin motion gone to congress that's trying to address the fact that players aren't playing for their clubs enough.
A small percentage of the population plays inter county finals and it's actually indefensible that they have so much time in the calendar dedicated to them.
Club players get maybe a 3 game season with their full team. That's rubbish and it's not going to be sustainable in the long run. It's barely sustainable right now.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4437 - 03/03/2025 16:35:25
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Replying To Whammo86: "You wouldn't necessarily increase dead rubbers that much by increasing the number of games if a competition is well designed.
The inter county season is too long.
You've got a Dublin motion gone to congress that's trying to address the fact that players aren't playing for their clubs enough.
A small percentage of the population plays inter county finals and it's actually indefensible that they have so much time in the calendar dedicated to them.
Club players get maybe a 3 game season with their full team. That's rubbish and it's not going to be sustainable in the long run. It's barely sustainable right now." The Intercounty season isnt that long for Antrim.
If there were no intercounty football, young kinds would have no heros to look up to. They would never get to see David Clifford in action. They would end up following other sport stars and other sports. A few years later you'd have a load of time for club matches but no one to play them.
You have to have intercounty football.
The only way to reduce the duration of intercounty football is to cut the number of matches.
To do that you have to be ruthless with those who dont belong in the senior competitions.
Would you be happy for Antrim to stay out of the Ulster championship until they earned a place in it on merit?
Would you be happy for Antrim to be in the 3rd tier of the All Ireland (where they would have an excellent chance of winning something)?
If the answer to the above is no - you cant really complain about the structures that are designed to give Antrim every chance of playing in competitions they will never win.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1278 - 03/03/2025 18:49:57
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "The Intercounty season isnt that long for Antrim.
If there were no intercounty football, young kinds would have no heros to look up to. They would never get to see David Clifford in action. They would end up following other sport stars and other sports. A few years later you'd have a load of time for club matches but no one to play them.
You have to have intercounty football.
The only way to reduce the duration of intercounty football is to cut the number of matches.
To do that you have to be ruthless with those who dont belong in the senior competitions.
Would you be happy for Antrim to stay out of the Ulster championship until they earned a place in it on merit?
Would you be happy for Antrim to be in the 3rd tier of the All Ireland (where they would have an excellent chance of winning something)?
If the answer to the above is no - you cant really complain about the structures that are designed to give Antrim every chance of playing in competitions they will never win." None of these questions are relevant.
I think there could be 2 main competitions, Provincials followed by a league style All Ireland and that season could be played off in a reasonable timeframe and teams get fewer games but games that matter.
The current system isn't actually good for anyone.
What's the point in having a competition where the top player in the game is being rested for it.
Read this report from yesterday:
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2025/0302/1499781-calendar-and-new-rules-frustrating-mcguinness/
So we've got players playing lots of games in February and March, picking up injuries all for a competition that teams don't actually care to win.
Honestly what's the point in that? How's that creating the players to look up to if they aren't playing or if they are they playing then they aren't competing to win.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4437 - 03/03/2025 19:25:12
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County boards were against any more than 3 weeks in a row in the league. There hasn't been much criticism of 3, 4 and 5 in the league. Not much criticism of 6, 7 and finals either. All the complaints are about needing the weekend off after the finals which is fair enough.
Some county boards are complaining about having to play All Ireland quarter finals on a third consecutive weekend. The whole reward and jeopardy was to offer the reward of the weekend off for group winners, which should be the reward of 2A winners in the new format.
Hurling seems fine within the current split season timescale. If the new format gives the weekend off after league finals, possibly it might be enough? Otherwise the All Ireland should go straight knockout from 16.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8631 - 03/03/2025 20:31:01
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Replying To legendzxix: "County boards were against any more than 3 weeks in a row in the league. There hasn't been much criticism of 3, 4 and 5 in the league. Not much criticism of 6, 7 and finals either. All the complaints are about needing the weekend off after the finals which is fair enough.
Some county boards are complaining about having to play All Ireland quarter finals on a third consecutive weekend. The whole reward and jeopardy was to offer the reward of the weekend off for group winners, which should be the reward of 2A winners in the new format.
Hurling seems fine within the current split season timescale. If the new format gives the weekend off after league finals, possibly it might be enough? Otherwise the All Ireland should go straight knockout from 16." The format will never matter as long as the provisionals remain important, the provisional system is unfair and in balanced, put the provisionals in Feb and leave them as a complete separate competition and the. Play the national league with no finals and have the positions of the league to provide a seeding for groups or straight knockout, that way teams play similar amount of games against similar level of opposition
Liftball (Armagh) - Posts: 32 - 03/03/2025 20:58:48
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Replying To Liftball: "The format will never matter as long as the provisionals remain important, the provisional system is unfair and in balanced, put the provisionals in Feb and leave them as a complete separate competition and the. Play the national league with no finals and have the positions of the league to provide a seeding for groups or straight knockout, that way teams play similar amount of games against similar level of opposition" It doesn't seem Allianz finals are going anywhere. The debate is on a weekend off after the league finals.
Provincial championships are currently scheduled after the league. Why not use league seeding for balanced provincial draws?
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8631 - 04/03/2025 07:28:41
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "The Intercounty season isnt that long for Antrim.
If there were no intercounty football, young kinds would have no heros to look up to. They would never get to see David Clifford in action. They would end up following other sport stars and other sports. A few years later you'd have a load of time for club matches but no one to play them.
You have to have intercounty football.
The only way to reduce the duration of intercounty football is to cut the number of matches.
To do that you have to be ruthless with those who dont belong in the senior competitions.
Would you be happy for Antrim to stay out of the Ulster championship until they earned a place in it on merit?
Would you be happy for Antrim to be in the 3rd tier of the All Ireland (where they would have an excellent chance of winning something)?
If the answer to the above is no - you cant really complain about the structures that are designed to give Antrim every chance of playing in competitions they will never win." For what it's worth I think there are 3 structures that I could get behind as being sensible seasons.
1 of those structures would be getting rid of the Provincials and having 3 tiers of 12, 10 and 10 in a National Championship where teams play at their own level and earn their way up.
I'd actually think Antrim would progress more in that system than the current one.
You'd hope for the most part we'd be in that 2nd tier and actually playing teams slightly above us on a regular basis. Those are the games that would bring us on.
We're going to play Armagh in the Ulster quarterfinal, I'd say that probably is a bit of a waste of time from a purely footballing standpoint.
It'll probably be Antrims highest profile game of the season so maybe it still makes sense for other reasons.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4437 - 04/03/2025 09:19:02
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Was it not the intention when the split season came in to eventually have the All Ireland club competitions completed within the calendar year ? That would be the ideal but difficult to arrive at scenario.
edu (Mayo) - Posts: 93 - 04/03/2025 09:35:25
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Replying To edu: "Was it not the intention when the split season came in to eventually have the All Ireland club competitions completed within the calendar year ? That would be the ideal but difficult to arrive at scenario." It was but I don't think that's on the agenda any more. Ideally with the split season the All Ireland club finals would be completed in December.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8631 - 04/03/2025 10:40:13
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Replying To edu: "Was it not the intention when the split season came in to eventually have the All Ireland club competitions completed within the calendar year ? That would be the ideal but difficult to arrive at scenario." The CPA wanted that but it's borderline impossible.
August to Christmas is 20/21 weekends.
You have 12 weekends needed for club championship (with the 4 groups of 4 style championship which seems to be Croke Parks preferred but not enforced county championship model).
Provincial and All Ireland club really needs 10 weeks minimum for Leinster, 3 hurling rounds, 4 football and let's call it 3 All Ireland rounds.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4437 - 04/03/2025 11:15:10
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Replying To Whammo86: "The CPA wanted that but it's borderline impossible.
August to Christmas is 20/21 weekends.
You have 12 weekends needed for club championship (with the 4 groups of 4 style championship which seems to be Croke Parks preferred but not enforced county championship model).
Provincial and All Ireland club really needs 10 weeks minimum for Leinster, 3 hurling rounds, 4 football and let's call it 3 All Ireland rounds." One thing that would help would be that the club winners of the counties reaching the All Ireland Finals in Football and hurling qualify directly for their respective Provincial Semi Finals. This would allow for the potential later Club Championship commencement start in these counties
Clanna Eireann were Armagh Champions last year and played the Ulster Q.F on Nov.10th Now if they qualified directly for S.F they would not have being playing until Nov. 24th.
edu (Mayo) - Posts: 93 - 04/03/2025 11:49:22
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Replying To edu: "One thing that would help would be that the club winners of the counties reaching the All Ireland Finals in Football and hurling qualify directly for their respective Provincial Semi Finals. This would allow for the potential later Club Championship commencement start in these counties
Clanna Eireann were Armagh Champions last year and played the Ulster Q.F on Nov.10th Now if they qualified directly for S.F they would not have being playing until Nov. 24th." The problem with that is that there is little correlation between club and county AI success. More Galway clubs have won AIs in club hurling than clubs from any other county, while Antrim clubs have won 2 while Antrim have never won an AI. This year Portaferry and Slaughtneil were 2 of the best club sides I saw, along with Na Fianna and Ballygunner. None of those counties has won an AI in the club AI era. 2 of them have never won 1.
In Football clubs from Antrim, Wicklow, Laois, Roscommon and Limerick have won AI club finals while their county teams haven't in that time. Wicklow, Laois and Antrim have never won a county AI.
To give clubs from the AI finalists a bye into Provincial SFs would just be unfair from a competition point of view.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15210 - 04/03/2025 18:12:20
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Success at club isnt a million miles away from County
Most of the outliers from the county roll of honor (Cavan, Wexford, Kildare, Tipperary, Louth) havent been successful since before the 2nd World War.
Derry, Roscommon and (to a lesser extent) Antrim are the only counties who are successful at club than they are at county.
All Ireland Club
County win loss total
Cork 11 6 17
Dublin 10 7 17
Galway 7 2 9
Kerry 6 4 10
Armagh 6 2 8
Derry 4 5 9
Down 3 2 5
Mayo 2 7 9
Rossie 1 8 9
Antrim 1 2 3
Laois 1 1 2
Tyrone 0 1 1
Limerick 1 0 1
Wicklow 1 0 1
Carlow 0 2 2
Meath 0 2 2
Clare 0 1 1
Monagh 0 1 1
Wtmeath0 1 1
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1278 - 06/03/2025 09:38:18
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "Success at club isnt a million miles away from County
Most of the outliers from the county roll of honor (Cavan, Wexford, Kildare, Tipperary, Louth) havent been successful since before the 2nd World War.
Derry, Roscommon and (to a lesser extent) Antrim are the only counties who are successful at club than they are at county.
All Ireland Club
County win loss total
Cork 11 6 17
Dublin 10 7 17
Galway 7 2 9
Kerry 6 4 10
Armagh 6 2 8
Derry 4 5 9
Down 3 2 5
Mayo 2 7 9
Rossie 1 8 9
Antrim 1 2 3
Laois 1 1 2
Tyrone 0 1 1
Limerick 1 0 1
Wicklow 1 0 1
Carlow 0 2 2
Meath 0 2 2
Clare 0 1 1
Monagh 0 1 1
Wtmeath0 1 1" Kerry have won 17 county AIs in that period since 1970. Dublin have won 14. Cork have only won 4 and Galway 2. So there's not a great correlation, if there was then Kerry would have over 8 times as many club AIs as Galway, and over 4 times as many as Cork.
Armagh who are next on your list have only won 2 AIs in that period, less than Offaly, and only half as many as Meath and Tyrone in the period there have been club AIs. None of those 3 counties have ever won a club AI according to your list.
Derry who are next on your list have only won 1 county AI in that period, Down are pretty even ok, but none of the other counties on your list have won an AI at all since 1970 when the club AIs started.
So really only Down and Dublin have a closeish correlation between club and county AIs won. That's not a great correlation tbh.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15210 - 06/03/2025 10:10:57
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An article in the Irish Examiner is touching on whether there should be a combined Leinster & Munster Senior Football Championship. The Munster Senior Football Championship has definitely collapsed. The current lopsided provincial draws is doing the Munster championship no favours.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8631 - 15/03/2025 07:21:33
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Replying To legendzxix: "An article in the Irish Examiner is touching on whether there should be a combined Leinster & Munster Senior Football Championship. The Munster Senior Football Championship has definitely collapsed. The current lopsided provincial draws is doing the Munster championship no favours." Hmmmmm......
Still be lopsided unless you have a 2 or 3 tier system .
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2167 - 15/03/2025 11:30:22
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The current provincial championships could be completed over 5 weekends if provinces with enough teams for 4 quarter finals were limited to 8 and the provinces with less that 8 teams were limited to 4:
1. Leinster (8) and Ulster (8) quarter finals
2. Connacht (4) and Munster (4) semi finals
3. Leinster and Ulster semi finals
4. Connacht and Munster finals
5. Leinster and Ulster finals
This would allow for a weekend off after league finals but also allow for a qualification standard. One problem for provincial championships is that there is no qualification standard. No jeopardy for underperforming or not raising standards.
With the above, the provincial winners could be guaranteed a place in their provincial championship in the following year. Counties not qualifying for their province could compete in a Tier 2 knockout. That Tier 2 winner could also be guaranteed a place in their provincial championship in the following year. The remainder qualifying through league placing.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8631 - 15/03/2025 12:28:32
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@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8585 - 15/03/2025 12:28:32
What are you doing reading the flagship Cork newspaper :) - very much Cork focused, despite the national title.
It's good that new Chair, Tim Murphy, is giving this some thought. It's not a great solution but better than doing nothing.
Ideally, I'd like to see something like my season-long, league/group stage with all teams playing a similar balanced mix of different-quality opponents, regardless of the incorporated lopsided Provincial SFCs.
The season should be right sized to permit the split season "to breathe" and to account for the "new football" increased work rate.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3155 - 15/03/2025 14:13:21
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Replying To legendzxix: "The current provincial championships could be completed over 5 weekends if provinces with enough teams for 4 quarter finals were limited to 8 and the provinces with less that 8 teams were limited to 4:
1. Leinster (8) and Ulster (8) quarter finals
2. Connacht (4) and Munster (4) semi finals
3. Leinster and Ulster semi finals
4. Connacht and Munster finals
5. Leinster and Ulster finals
This would allow for a weekend off after league finals but also allow for a qualification standard. One problem for provincial championships is that there is no qualification standard. No jeopardy for underperforming or not raising standards.
With the above, the provincial winners could be guaranteed a place in their provincial championship in the following year. Counties not qualifying for their province could compete in a Tier 2 knockout. That Tier 2 winner could also be guaranteed a place in their provincial championship in the following year. The remainder qualifying through league placing." I just think it'd be a better direction to go to tiered national championship and ditch the Provincials. If provincials can't justify 6 weeks in the calendar is that indicative of their value.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4437 - 15/03/2025 14:27:15
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