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New Format 2026 All Ireland

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "At currently set up, tailteann cup success will be the preserve of fallen giants (those that should be operating at a higher level and have dropped for season or two - usually due to bad management rather than terminal decline).
Westmeath winning in 2022 and Laois making the final in 24, is what the cup was designed for - those who are outside the big budget, big population counties, making a good run and winning some silverware.
Extending SAM to 18, ensure Westmeath can keep building with less chance of falling back, and gives Antrim, Sligo (beaten semi finalists twice) and Laois the chance to win silverware and into SAM maguire.

The way the league structure is at the moment, a team winning a 16 team Tailteann has to fight really hard to stay in SAM Maguire the next year (i.e Staying up in Div 2 and focusing on doing well in SAM Maguire are a lot to ask of a team)

If you were to go to deciding SAM Maguire teams on championship performance, 4 up and 4 down is too many in a 16team format. 4 up and 4 down would be ok for an 18 team SAM Maguire.

We should be trying to get as many counties as possible up to a high standard, relegating borderline counties every year would hold them back.

I would like to see a Div 1A/B (12 team), Div 2A/B (12 team) and Div 3 (8 team) leagues and an 18 team SAM Maguire
That way you are giving teams in the 17-24 range more exposure to a higher grade of opponent.

The current structure has pulled up the draw bridge behind the top 12 teams (this years Div 1 + Roscommon, Cork, Louth and Monaghan) while the next 7 (Cavan, Meath, Down, Kildare, Offaly, Clare, Westmeath have become yo-yo counties (between tailteann and SAM and between Div 2 &3)."
You are not the only one guilty of this but I don't see how teams getting 2 or 3 games guaranteed in the championship is actually what brings them on.

The championship should be a more league based structure.

Teams should play more games in the competition.

There should be relegation and promotion through the championship only.

More than just the 2nd tier champions should have a shot at promotion, I'd agree that 4 from 16 would be too many but 2 or even 3 would make sense. If there happens to be a standout team some year at least there's still something for the others to shoot for.

I don't think you need to guarantee teams 2 seasons in the top tier championship if you are instead guaranteeing them significantly more than 2 games in the championship.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4537 - 21/05/2025 20:04:25    2611632

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I don't think that's the issue. I think your proposition reduces the incentive to do well in the Tailteann.

It hurts the flow of the season further."
Round 1 is currently played over two weekends. The playoffs could be on that first weekend and all Round 1 games played on the second weekend.
Jarlath Burns was talking about the All Ireland championship being more of a blunt instrument, there being more highs and lows. There needs to be more head to head contests for All Ireland qualification, and the highs and lows that go with that.
Cork lost to Kerry in the Munster semi final but are in the All Ireland anyway. If they had to take on Offaly, Kildare or Westmeath in a playoff, there would be a bit of jeopardy and some sense of achievement then in qualifying.
I don't think football needs as many tiers as hurling. The McDonagh Cup has become successfully established between provincial championships and the Christy Ring. While 12:10:10 or 10:10:12 might be the ideal splits, 16:8:8 might be more realistic of being approved at Congress.
A middle tier is probably needed between All Ireland and Tailteann. The lower 8 counties not achieving the playoff qualifying standard entering the Tailteann. The 8 counties falling at the playoff hurdle entering a Middle Tier Cup. 7 or 8 playoff winners then joining 8 finalists and Middle Tier Cup winner from the previous year in the All Ireland 16.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8836 - 22/05/2025 07:02:26    2611679

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Round 1 is currently played over two weekends. The playoffs could be on that first weekend and all Round 1 games played on the second weekend.
Jarlath Burns was talking about the All Ireland championship being more of a blunt instrument, there being more highs and lows. There needs to be more head to head contests for All Ireland qualification, and the highs and lows that go with that.
Cork lost to Kerry in the Munster semi final but are in the All Ireland anyway. If they had to take on Offaly, Kildare or Westmeath in a playoff, there would be a bit of jeopardy and some sense of achievement then in qualifying.
I don't think football needs as many tiers as hurling. The McDonagh Cup has become successfully established between provincial championships and the Christy Ring. While 12:10:10 or 10:10:12 might be the ideal splits, 16:8:8 might be more realistic of being approved at Congress.
A middle tier is probably needed between All Ireland and Tailteann. The lower 8 counties not achieving the playoff qualifying standard entering the Tailteann. The 8 counties falling at the playoff hurdle entering a Middle Tier Cup. 7 or 8 playoff winners then joining 8 finalists and Middle Tier Cup winner from the previous year in the All Ireland 16."
I don't agree with very much of this to be honest.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4537 - 22/05/2025 13:03:14    2611739

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Replying To Whammo86:  "You are not the only one guilty of this but I don't see how teams getting 2 or 3 games guaranteed in the championship is actually what brings them on.

The championship should be a more league based structure.

Teams should play more games in the competition.

There should be relegation and promotion through the championship only.

More than just the 2nd tier champions should have a shot at promotion, I'd agree that 4 from 16 would be too many but 2 or even 3 would make sense. If there happens to be a standout team some year at least there's still something for the others to shoot for.

I don't think you need to guarantee teams 2 seasons in the top tier championship if you are instead guaranteeing them significantly more than 2 games in the championship."
As long as we're trying to keep the door open for provincial championship involvement there needs to be 4 teams relegated each year.

The 4 can come straight back up by winning their provence.

I like keeping the link to the provincial championships
I like the Tailteann cup being something to aim for
I prefer rewarding championship performance and don't like the League link.

Working with that you get 4/5 teams being relegated each year.

How many teams should be in the top tier is another question. I would argue at the moment there are maybe 6/7 top tier counties 14/15 mid tier counties and then the rest. At the moment the mid tier is spread across both competitions. On that basis perhaps a 20 team Sam Maguire competition would be better this year. But that number will vary every year; it would go up/down like the tides ebb.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 445 - 22/05/2025 14:00:35    2611751

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@brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 442 - 22/05/2025

Two-tier League-based Championship of 16:16, leading to a three-tier AIC KO of 8:12:8 (bottom 4 eliminated), with 2-4 up/down based on AIC mid-tier playoff performance.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3251 - 22/05/2025 14:45:02    2611761

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Replying To brianb:  "As long as we're trying to keep the door open for provincial championship involvement there needs to be 4 teams relegated each year.

The 4 can come straight back up by winning their provence.

I like keeping the link to the provincial championships
I like the Tailteann cup being something to aim for
I prefer rewarding championship performance and don't like the League link.

Working with that you get 4/5 teams being relegated each year.

How many teams should be in the top tier is another question. I would argue at the moment there are maybe 6/7 top tier counties 14/15 mid tier counties and then the rest. At the moment the mid tier is spread across both competitions. On that basis perhaps a 20 team Sam Maguire competition would be better this year. But that number will vary every year; it would go up/down like the tides ebb."
I e thought a bit about this.

I'd think you'd want to end the season with 16 teams preliminarily qualified and these teams can't be displaced without losing a playoff game.

So if a Provincial champion came from outside the 16 you have the lowest 2 teams playoff and the loser vacates their spot.

You could offer losing provincial finalists a guaranteed playoff spot rather than automatic qualification.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4537 - 22/05/2025 17:06:10    2611786

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Ach just leave it alone and see how we get on.

I'd prefer current format to the change for next year as current format guarantee home game.

Biggest issues is gap between league and provincial competition and gap between games in general. I don't think any team should play two weeks in a row, never mind three but on flipside, thats the biggest carrot right now for topping group.

Unfair though that Leinster and Ulster finalists only get 1 week break for match 2

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 339 - 22/05/2025 18:30:28    2611796

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If a frog is placed in boiling water, it will instantly jump out. However, if the same frog is placed in lukewarm water that is gradually heated, it will remain in the water.
The 2026 provincial finals will be standalone. No All Ireland seeding advantage or anything. If provincial finals are becoming standalone, it can't be that big a jump to have standalone provincial championships.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8836 - 22/05/2025 20:26:51    2611802

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Replying To legendzxix:  "If a frog is placed in boiling water, it will instantly jump out. However, if the same frog is placed in lukewarm water that is gradually heated, it will remain in the water.
The 2026 provincial finals will be standalone. No All Ireland seeding advantage or anything. If provincial finals are becoming standalone, it can't be that big a jump to have standalone provincial championships."
Getting to the Provincial Finals gets you a home fixture in Round 1.
Others may never get a home fixture, which isn't a great idea.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2327 - 22/05/2025 20:50:51    2611803

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I e thought a bit about this.

I'd think you'd want to end the season with 16 teams preliminarily qualified and these teams can't be displaced without losing a playoff game.

So if a Provincial champion came from outside the 16 you have the lowest 2 teams playoff and the loser vacates their spot.

You could offer losing provincial finalists a guaranteed playoff spot rather than automatic qualification."
That dilutes the provincial championships a bit more but at least you'd be rewarding championship performance. Your 8 all Ireland quarter finalists and Tailteann winners would be safe for the following year with the other 8 ranked by league position open to getting drawn into a playoff.

And @omahant - I see what you're trying to do and trying to be very fair to teams but if would get very complicated.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 445 - 22/05/2025 23:46:18    2611818

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Getting to the Provincial Finals gets you a home fixture in Round 1.
Others may never get a home fixture, which isn't a great idea."
Agree. We should be building in more home fixtures for all rather than less.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 445 - 22/05/2025 23:47:25    2611819

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Getting to the Provincial Finals gets you a home fixture in Round 1.
Others may never get a home fixture, which isn't a great idea."
If they kept the groups of 4, but with only 2 going through, they could reward provincial finalists 2 home games and league qualifiers 1 home game. It can even be achieved when seeding provincial runners up on league ranking.
Group 1: DONEGAL, MAYO, Tyrone, Cavan.
DONEGAL v Tyrone, MAYO v Cavan
DONEGAL v MAYO, Tyrone v Cavan
MAYO v Tyrone, Cavan v DONEGAL
Group 2: KERRY, Dublin, MEATH, Cork.
KERRY v MEATH, Dublin v Cork
KERRY v Dublin, MEATH v Cork
Cork v KERRY, MEATH v Dublin.
Group 3: LOUTH, Monaghan, Roscommon, CLARE.
LOUTH v Roscommon, CLARE v Monaghan
LOUTH v Monaghan, Roscommon v CLARE
CLARE v LOUTH, Monaghan v Roscommon.
Group 4: GALWAY, ARMAGH, Derry, Down.
GALWAY v Derry, ARMAGH v Down
GALWAY v ARMAGH, Derry v Down
Down v GALWAY, ARMAGH v Derry
Rounds 2 and 3 can swap so that Round 1 winners play each other in Round 2. In the case of draws in Round 1, the higher seed can take place of winner for Round 2. Job done!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8836 - 23/05/2025 07:17:50    2611826

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Replying To brianb:  "That dilutes the provincial championships a bit more but at least you'd be rewarding championship performance. Your 8 all Ireland quarter finalists and Tailteann winners would be safe for the following year with the other 8 ranked by league position open to getting drawn into a playoff.

And @omahant - I see what you're trying to do and trying to be very fair to teams but if would get very complicated."
Sorry I'd think the championship should be 2 groups of 8 rather than 4 groups of 4 and that's determining playoff placement.

Only 4 teams would be guaranteed a spot because a Provincial champion coming from outside the top 16 would need 2 teams playing off.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4537 - 23/05/2025 12:02:56    2611861

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Sorry I'd think the championship should be 2 groups of 8 rather than 4 groups of 4 and that's determining playoff placement.

Only 4 teams would be guaranteed a spot because a Provincial champion coming from outside the top 16 would need 2 teams playing off."
If the leap is taken from standalone provincial finals to standalone provincial championships, any agreeable promotion/relegation structure is possible. There has to realism about expected crowds etc. They'll have to get the splits right!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8836 - 23/05/2025 12:46:11    2611865

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Replying To legendzxix:  "If a frog is placed in boiling water, it will instantly jump out. However, if the same frog is placed in lukewarm water that is gradually heated, it will remain in the water.
The 2026 provincial finals will be standalone. No All Ireland seeding advantage or anything. If provincial finals are becoming standalone, it can't be that big a jump to have standalone provincial championships."
...but could put you in hot water...

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3251 - 23/05/2025 13:19:42    2611878

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@brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 444 - 22/05/2025
And @omahant - I see what you're trying to do and trying to be very fair to teams but if would get very complicated.

Certainly "very unconventional".
- Groups of 4 "in reverse", avoiding own group, play all others instead (crossover ties, to reduce from 15 games)
- Crossover provides enough scope to split each Prov tie across two groups and include in league schedule
- For crossover Prov SFs/Finals, I need two SFs split across four groups and can only know SF teams after Prov QFs are played - hence my delay of group draw to mid Feb
- Backfilling early Feb results after the draw is probably inelegant but workable (playing early Feb, to not waste precious calendar time)
- Shield Prelim QFs also serve as promotion/relegation playoffs (ultimately, a flexible 2-4 go up/down)

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3251 - 23/05/2025 13:40:47    2611879

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Sorry I'd think the championship should be 2 groups of 8 rather than 4 groups of 4 and that's determining playoff placement.

Only 4 teams would be guaranteed a spot because a Provincial champion coming from outside the top 16 would need 2 teams playing off."
If 4 Prov Champs are from outside the 16, wouldn't it be:

8 teams (9-16) playoff and other 8 (1-8) are "guaranteed"?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3251 - 23/05/2025 13:48:00    2611881

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Sorry I'd think the championship should be 2 groups of 8 rather than 4 groups of 4 and that's determining playoff placement.

Only 4 teams would be guaranteed a spot because a Provincial champion coming from outside the top 16 would need 2 teams playing off."
Sorry - I misunderstood; That's very league based again. It could work although we're pretty much just calling the league the championship and taking it from there.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 445 - 23/05/2025 15:01:22    2611901

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Replying To omahant:  "If 4 Prov Champs are from outside the 16, wouldn't it be:

8 teams (9-16) playoff and other 8 (1-8) are "guaranteed"?"
If you'd 4 Provincial champions from outside the 16 and 4 finalists from outside. You'd have 4 Provincial champions plus 4 of the original 16 qualifying automatically. You'd have 12 of the 16 plus 4 Provincial finalists in the playoffs.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4537 - 23/05/2025 15:15:35    2611905

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Replying To brianb:  "Sorry - I misunderstood; That's very league based again. It could work although we're pretty much just calling the league the championship and taking it from there."
Yeah, exactly. The league should be the championship. The tweaks are to connect the Provincials and because an 8 team competition isn't appropriate for the All Ireland.

Basically the season has too much fluff. It needs to be streamlined and the league is where the right match ups are being played just in a competition that isn't really cared about (at the top level anyway) and that's a waste.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4537 - 23/05/2025 15:18:54    2611911

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