|
All-Ireland League-Championship (AILC) could work:
Two Options (with a few minor tweaks):
OPTION ONE
- Two league tiers of 16
- Prov KO ties 'double as league ties' (all 4 Prov rds, intra-tier only); any tier-crossover ties (Tier 1v2) are Prov KO only
- Play Prov Prelim & QF Rds early (1st half of Feb); and defer SFs (end of Apr) & Finals (2nd & 3rd weeks of May)
- After Prov QFs, draw '4 groups of 4' in each tier
(from 4 seeding pots of 4)
- 12-match Regular Season (URC schedule, less 'intra-group' ties - i.e. play other 'crossover' 12), with all 'intra-tier' Prov KO ties included in the 12
- Limit each group to 'no more than one' Prov SF team from each province (this way, all 'possible' Prov Finals & Prelim, QF & SF ties can 'cross over')
- Teams ranked 1-16 & 17-32, based on 12-match/ 16-team tables, advance to 'three-tier' AIC for Sam, Shield & Plate
- Teams placed 1 & 17 win "League 1" & "League 2"
- Top 8 to AI Sam AFL-style playoffs; 9-20 to AI Shield KO; 21-28 to AI Plate KO (or Tailteann Cup); and 29-32 do not advance
- Prov Champs advance based on League placing (no Sam berth guarantee)
- 'Shield QF 8' earn/retain Tier 1 status the next year,
with '2, 3 or 4 teams' promoted & relegated
(after PQFs: 11,12,13,14 host 20,19,16,15; and
QFs: 9,10,17,18 host PQF 'reverse seed' winners).
Or, alternatively:
OPTION TWO
10-match Regular Season - same as "Option One", with the following changes:
- After Prov QFs, draw groups of 6, 5 & 5 in each tier
- 10-match schedule (6 v both 5s; each 5 v own round-robin group), with all intra-tier Prov ties 'likely' included in the 10
- To optimise this 'likelihood' in the draw, restrict each 'same-province Prov SF set', as follows:
a) put all of the set in 'one Group of 5' (not both); or
b) split it between 'one Group of 5 & the Group of 6'
[i.e. try to avoid Prov Finals between two 'Group of 6' teams, as they are KO only and do not double up].
______
CALENDAR
Week Activity
-2 (mid Jan) Start of '2-3 game' Pre-Season
0 (end of Jan) End of Pre-Season Warm-Up
1 (start of Feb) Prov SFC Prelim Rd
2 Prov SFC QFs
2 (after QFs) AILC Draw (2 tiers of 4x4 or 6,5,5)
2 (after Draw) Prelim/QF 'intra-tier' ties to tables
3 Bye Week
4 (end of Feb) First Full Regular Season Rd
13 (end of Apr) Rd includes all 8 Prov SFs
15 & 16 Rds include 4 Prov Finals
20 Last Regular Season Rd
21 (end of June) Bye Week
22 AI Sam PSFs/PQFs, Shield PQFs & Plate QFs
23 AI Sam QFs & AI Shield QFs
24 AI Plate SFs
25 AI Sam SFs & AI Shield SFs
26 (end of July) AI Plate Final
27 (start of Aug) AI Sam Final & AI Shield Final
Note - As each team plays 12 (or 10) 'staggered' regular season games (plus maybe 1-2 inter-tier) in Weeks 1-20 and '0 to 4' AIC/post-season games in Weeks 22-27, 'off weeks' provide sufficient rest.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3229 - 30/04/2025 13:21:11
2605668
Link
0
|
|
Replying To legendzxix: "I think the higher Division 3 counties should be pushing to 4 groups of 5. Offaly, Kildare, Westmeath and Fermanagh wouldn't be out of place in 4 groups of 5. The league would have to be completed within 6 rounds.
The other alternative is a 10:10:12 split. 4 provincial runners up and 11 league qualifiers should playoff for 5 places to join the 4 provincial winners and Tailteann winner in 2 groups of 5. Provincial runners up could have a bye from Q1 but Q2 should be seeded on league.
The 10 counties losing in the playoffs could contest the Tailteann in 2 groups of 5. Tier 3 then possibly in 2 groups of 6.
I don't think 20:12 or 10:10:12 is disrespecting Division 4 counties but what's your opinion on it?" I don't think 20:12 adds much to the main championship.
Splitting the field into 4 keeps the top teams away from one another too much.
The 10:10:12 wouldn't be disrespectful to lower tier counties. I do still think that a 2nd tier is probably all that's needed and all but the weakest of teams would have a good shot at getting themselves to a competitive level in this competition.
You look at say Louth, they are in the Same Maguire now for 3 straight years, progressing all the way to the quarterfinals. It's hard to say that's beyond many counties outside maybe London and Waterford.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4516 - 30/04/2025 16:09:07
2605768
Link
0
|
|
Replying To tirawleybaron: "12 senior All Ireland counties
14 div 1 counties
League starts in Feb
6 rounds by end of March
League finals around Easter.
provincial first round May bank holiday
All Ireland championships starts one weeks later
Play a provincial game every 3rd week, same for All Ireland groups and other week off.
All Ireland Q finals first weekend in July - 16 counties start their club championships
All Ireland final in Mid August.
Club champions from All Ireland semi finalists get a buy in provincial club championships
All Ireland club played during county club - clubs in All Ireland get a bye to county club q finals." You can't have clubs getting a bye to their county championship quarterfinals.
Just treat the club game with a bit of respect.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4516 - 30/04/2025 16:11:23
2605771
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "I don't think 20:12 adds much to the main championship.
Splitting the field into 4 keeps the top teams away from one another too much.
The 10:10:12 wouldn't be disrespectful to lower tier counties. I do still think that a 2nd tier is probably all that's needed and all but the weakest of teams would have a good shot at getting themselves to a competitive level in this competition.
You look at say Louth, they are in the Same Maguire now for 3 straight years, progressing all the way to the quarterfinals. It's hard to say that's beyond many counties outside maybe London and Waterford." In the current set-up, it is fair that provincial winners are in different groups. The group draw should be after the finals with runners up at least seeded on league e.g. Clare possibly Seed 4 depending on Sunday v Kerry of course.
The current format that's on the way out could have offered provincial finalists two home games as an added incentive to qualify for finals. The current format that's on the way out would suit Round 1 winners playing in Round 3. The worst case scenario would have been 1 v 2 to win the group and 3 v 4 for the preliminary quarter-finals. Dead runners completely avoided but Round 1 and 2 of low consequence.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8766 - 30/04/2025 16:35:37
2605782
Link
0
|
|
Replying To legendzxix: "In the current set-up, it is fair that provincial winners are in different groups. The group draw should be after the finals with runners up at least seeded on league e.g. Clare possibly Seed 4 depending on Sunday v Kerry of course.
The current format that's on the way out could have offered provincial finalists two home games as an added incentive to qualify for finals. The current format that's on the way out would suit Round 1 winners playing in Round 3. The worst case scenario would have been 1 v 2 to win the group and 3 v 4 for the preliminary quarter-finals. Dead runners completely avoided but Round 1 and 2 of low consequence." I think if you have to exert so much control over scheduling you have a bad format on your hands.
It's also a little bit unfair on the weaker counties or those that cause upsets.
There's a lot of control over the fixtures in the Leinster championship such that the weaker 2 teams are due to play the final round of fixtures.
Antrim had beaten Wexford in round 2 but were then not due to play Carlow until round 5 by which stage they were out of the playoff running in the competition, but how great could it have been for Antrim if they'd more likelihood of 2 wins on the board in the first 2 rounds, maybe the results don't fall the same way in that scenario. Even if they do end up being the same results, Antrim could have been in a spot where they've 2 games to go and knowing that 1 win could see them advance. An Antrim versus Dublin game in that context could have been great for interest levels in the county.
I think people saw the super 8s and saw there not be that much excitement with them and assumed that group stages weren't good but groups of 4 are uniquely bad. You either have 2 going through and there's too much chance of the final round being a damp squib or you allow 3 to go through and the whole of the group stage loses intensity.
If you had a larger group with the right incentives.
8 in a group top 3 to emerge with the top team getting a bye to the semifinals, bottom team relegated, 2nd last team into a relegation playoff. You get to 6 rounds and there's going to be plenty up for grabs.
A team could be on relegation trouble on 4 points, a team on 6 points might have an outside chance at qualifying, a team on 8 points probably still needs to win. If there's a few weaker teams in a group it's possible that multiple teams could finish 2nd to 4th on 9 or 10 points. That's a high enough qualifying standard.
I think the season also struggles from a lack of surprise, yes the leagues are a perfect indicator of how teams will do come championship but they do provide a bit more clarity and then there's more awareness that Derry isn't that good this year takes away a bit of the interest in their games.
I really think we need to just start the season with Provincials and then cut loose with a more league based All Ireland straight after.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4516 - 01/05/2025 09:52:35
2605934
Link
0
|
|
Replying To legendzxix: "In the current set-up, it is fair that provincial winners are in different groups. The group draw should be after the finals with runners up at least seeded on league e.g. Clare possibly Seed 4 depending on Sunday v Kerry of course.
The current format that's on the way out could have offered provincial finalists two home games as an added incentive to qualify for finals. The current format that's on the way out would suit Round 1 winners playing in Round 3. The worst case scenario would have been 1 v 2 to win the group and 3 v 4 for the preliminary quarter-finals. Dead runners completely avoided but Round 1 and 2 of low consequence." You really love adding incentives for provincial winners - I wonder does it have anything to do with the fact that Kerry have wont 73 of the last 100 Munster titles?
You must miss that days when Kerry could pick up an All Ireland by winning 4 matches.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1349 - 01/05/2025 10:24:59
2605949
Link
0
|
|
Replying To tirawleybaron: "You really love adding incentives for provincial winners - I wonder does it have anything to do with the fact that Kerry have wont 73 of the last 100 Munster titles?
You must miss that days when Kerry could pick up an All Ireland by winning 4 matches." John Prenty is more in favour of rewarding provincial winners!!
If league is after provincial championships - use league for seeding IMHO.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8766 - 01/05/2025 11:58:57
2605991
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "I think if you have to exert so much control over scheduling you have a bad format on your hands.
It's also a little bit unfair on the weaker counties or those that cause upsets.
There's a lot of control over the fixtures in the Leinster championship such that the weaker 2 teams are due to play the final round of fixtures.
Antrim had beaten Wexford in round 2 but were then not due to play Carlow until round 5 by which stage they were out of the playoff running in the competition, but how great could it have been for Antrim if they'd more likelihood of 2 wins on the board in the first 2 rounds, maybe the results don't fall the same way in that scenario. Even if they do end up being the same results, Antrim could have been in a spot where they've 2 games to go and knowing that 1 win could see them advance. An Antrim versus Dublin game in that context could have been great for interest levels in the county.
I think people saw the super 8s and saw there not be that much excitement with them and assumed that group stages weren't good but groups of 4 are uniquely bad. You either have 2 going through and there's too much chance of the final round being a damp squib or you allow 3 to go through and the whole of the group stage loses intensity.
If you had a larger group with the right incentives.
8 in a group top 3 to emerge with the top team getting a bye to the semifinals, bottom team relegated, 2nd last team into a relegation playoff. You get to 6 rounds and there's going to be plenty up for grabs.
A team could be on relegation trouble on 4 points, a team on 6 points might have an outside chance at qualifying, a team on 8 points probably still needs to win. If there's a few weaker teams in a group it's possible that multiple teams could finish 2nd to 4th on 9 or 10 points. That's a high enough qualifying standard.
I think the season also struggles from a lack of surprise, yes the leagues are a perfect indicator of how teams will do come championship but they do provide a bit more clarity and then there's more awareness that Derry isn't that good this year takes away a bit of the interest in their games.
I really think we need to just start the season with Provincials and then cut loose with a more league based All Ireland straight after." The Dublin Championship have groups of 4. Round 1 winners play each other in Round 2. There is a Round 3 shootout for getting through to the quarter finals.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8766 - 01/05/2025 12:03:02
2605996
Link
0
|
|
New Format 2026 All Ireland:
Saw in an article that the 8 provincial finalists will be drawn at home in Round 1. The first teams out of the hat will have home advantage in Rounds 2A and 2B. Round 1 winners who lose in Round 2A will have home advantage in Round 3.
Seems they are trying to build in rewards. Get to your provincial final and have home advantage in Round 1. Win in Round 1 and guarantee at least home advantage in Round 3. Win in Round 2A and you go direct to quarter finals.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8766 - 02/05/2025 09:31:37
2606200
Link
0
|
|
@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8760 - 02/05/2025
I wonder if you are giving too much credit - do they think like that?
Well, it's still an accident that works well.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3229 - 02/05/2025 13:24:50
2606280
Link
0
|
|
Replying To omahant: "@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8760 - 02/05/2025
I wonder if you are giving too much credit - do they think like that?
Well, it's still an accident that works well." Home advantage in Round 1 and 3 is definitely by design. They never did that in the old Christy Ring Cup double eliminator however! The two teams who used to get to the semi finals unbeaten were never given the reward of home advantage. The GAA have slowly but surely embraced the rewarding of home advantage.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8766 - 02/05/2025 14:29:47
2606302
Link
0
|
|
Replying To legendzxix: "Home advantage in Round 1 and 3 is definitely by design. They never did that in the old Christy Ring Cup double eliminator however! The two teams who used to get to the semi finals unbeaten were never given the reward of home advantage. The GAA have slowly but surely embraced the rewarding of home advantage." So much better and so much better to be playing games in one teams ground instead of always plucking to neutral
shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 317 - 02/05/2025 15:56:47
2606316
Link
1
|
|
Three years in a row there has been complaining about staging the All Ireland draw before the provincial finals. GAA HQ plough on regardless! :-D
The main reason is because Round 1 is played over two weekends. Connacht and Munster finalists play two weeks after their final. League qualifiers need to know are they playing the first or second weekend of Round 1 fixtures.
IMHO there should be a playoff round on the weekend after the Ulster and Leinster finals. People will complain about the All Ireland draw before provincial finals but I don't think there would be complaints about the All Ireland draw before the playoffs are completed.
All Ireland Round 1 then can be on one weekend.
Whammo makes a fair point about knockout playoff to double eliminator as well though. We've seen with the FRC rules the return of good contests. In some agreeable form there needs to be head to head contests for All Ireland qualification. Cork v Kildare, Cavan v Westmeath, Roscommon v Fermanagh and Monaghan v Offaly for example.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8766 - 03/05/2025 08:33:57
2606383
Link
0
|