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Is There A Workable Solution To Limiting Handpasses In Football?

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Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "A simple start is just to limit a) ball handpassed over the bar and b) balls fisted to the net from a handpass / throw across the goals. That change alone would give defenders some hope in the game. Easy to referee too. You wouldn't need a 2 point arc if you got rid of these literally 'handy' scores.
However, the big change can come from simply implementing the current rule - a clear underhand striking action.
Closed fist should be a must also.
You will see at least 20 thrown passes a game, maybe more if it's Kerry playing (!). Change the allowed action for now and see what happens."
Fist striking action should be clear -
with benefit of the doubt NOT with the player, but the referee. Unclear = Free.
(or move up 50m too? - ok, ok, I'm joking :)

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3204 - 04/02/2025 00:45:12    2589326

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From some of the commentary about the energy levels required under the new rules, they probably need the handpassing for a release valve.
The 12 v 11 has to be looked at. For man on man contests, it has to be 11 v 11. One suggestion from some quarters is that the attacking team should keep 4 back. If the goalkeeper is venturing forward, an "outfield" player would have to drop back.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8721 - 04/02/2025 02:28:10    2589328

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Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "A simple start is just to limit a) ball handpassed over the bar and b) balls fisted to the net from a handpass / throw across the goals. That change alone would give defenders some hope in the game. Easy to referee too. You wouldn't need a 2 point arc if you got rid of these literally 'handy' scores.
However, the big change can come from simply implementing the current rule - a clear underhand striking action.
Closed fist should be a must also.
You will see at least 20 thrown passes a game, maybe more if it's Kerry playing (!). Change the allowed action for now and see what happens."
I don't see the handpass score being a problem within the game. A corner forward gets a yard clear of his market and punches over for a point; or sees that the full forward gets a couple of meters free from the full back and passes for a goal. Both will have been due to good attacking play close into the goal.

As for the thrown pass; you do see some getting pulled up for lack of an underhand action; but the closed fist I would say would be almost impossible to referee.

I don't see the problem as the style of pass or where the pass is played but more the volume of passes played across the pitch without actually progressing the ball forward.

I don't think there is an easy answer to limit handpasses - its more put the right conditions in place where excessive handpassing isn't the best way of winning a match.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 420 - 04/02/2025 15:31:31    2589460

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Replying To brianb:  "
Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "A simple start is just to limit a) ball handpassed over the bar and b) balls fisted to the net from a handpass / throw across the goals. That change alone would give defenders some hope in the game. Easy to referee too. You wouldn't need a 2 point arc if you got rid of these literally 'handy' scores.
However, the big change can come from simply implementing the current rule - a clear underhand striking action.
Closed fist should be a must also.
You will see at least 20 thrown passes a game, maybe more if it's Kerry playing (!). Change the allowed action for now and see what happens."
I don't see the handpass score being a problem within the game. A corner forward gets a yard clear of his market and punches over for a point; or sees that the full forward gets a couple of meters free from the full back and passes for a goal. Both will have been due to good attacking play close into the goal.

As for the thrown pass; you do see some getting pulled up for lack of an underhand action; but the closed fist I would say would be almost impossible to referee.

I don't see the problem as the style of pass or where the pass is played but more the volume of passes played across the pitch without actually progressing the ball forward.

I don't think there is an easy answer to limit handpasses - its more put the right conditions in place where excessive handpassing isn't the best way of winning a match."
I would intend to agree with you Brianb as regards the fisted / hand passed point or the setting up of a goal…which can often happen after some excellent attacking play…. As regards limited hand passes, it's difficult and another job for the over worked referee.. How about not allowing any hand passing backwards while in your own half…? All hand passes in the defensive half of the field must go forward or possession is lost…! Nothing worse than defenders passing the ball backwards to run the clock down… if the ball had to be kicked it might lead to more chances for the opposition especially when 3 of their players must be in that area … I don't know… what do others think…?

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3729 - 04/02/2025 17:25:41    2589481

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Replying To brianb:  "
Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "A simple start is just to limit a) ball handpassed over the bar and b) balls fisted to the net from a handpass / throw across the goals. That change alone would give defenders some hope in the game. Easy to referee too. You wouldn't need a 2 point arc if you got rid of these literally 'handy' scores.
However, the big change can come from simply implementing the current rule - a clear underhand striking action.
Closed fist should be a must also.
You will see at least 20 thrown passes a game, maybe more if it's Kerry playing (!). Change the allowed action for now and see what happens."
I don't see the handpass score being a problem within the game. A corner forward gets a yard clear of his market and punches over for a point; or sees that the full forward gets a couple of meters free from the full back and passes for a goal. Both will have been due to good attacking play close into the goal.

As for the thrown pass; you do see some getting pulled up for lack of an underhand action; but the closed fist I would say would be almost impossible to referee.

I don't see the problem as the style of pass or where the pass is played but more the volume of passes played across the pitch without actually progressing the ball forward.

I don't think there is an easy answer to limit handpasses - its more put the right conditions in place where excessive handpassing isn't the best way of winning a match."
I think the problem with the 'style of pass' as you mention, is that a lax interpretation of throwing/chucking makes it too easy to execute, and therefore too easy to retain possession under pressure. Players will handpass laterally across the pitch to take the risk out of holding possession as a result.
Insisting on a proper striking action would introduce some element of skill and therefore more risk to the game. GOd help any ref at the moment who would apply the rule correctly however.

A possible adjustment to create more risk is that handpasses must go straight to hand i.e. the pass cannot hit the ground before the receiving player takes possession. If the handpass had to go directly to hand then the handy looping pass onto grass or the out-the -back-door option would disappear. More incentive to apply pressure on the ball.

Lads the focus has to be on making the ball more contestable. If the rule involves a change happening on or around the ball then refs would cope ok. Space-related changes and positional limits are impossible to get right because a ref on his own cannot ficus on two areas of the pitch at once.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1182 - 04/02/2025 21:59:43    2589522

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@Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1140 - 04/02/2025

Should the defence be required to kick pass from behind its 45 to between the 65s (or beyond) to increase contested balls and break the hand pass sequencing ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3204 - 05/02/2025 13:55:23    2589601

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Replying To omahant:  "@Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1140 - 04/02/2025

Should the defence be required to kick pass from behind its 45 to between the 65s (or beyond) to increase contested balls and break the hand pass sequencing ?"
No. How many more rule changes do you want?

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6177 - 05/02/2025 20:11:33    2589667

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Keep it simple.
Hand pass allowed in the middle third.
No hand pass allowed in the attacking third or the defending third.
I think that's reasonable and helpful.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3160 - 05/02/2025 21:09:47    2589678

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Replying To supersub15:  "Keep it simple.
Hand pass allowed in the middle third.
No hand pass allowed in the attacking third or the defending third.
I think that's reasonable and helpful."
Agree keep any changes simple. But also keep them focussed on creating a better contest for the possession.
A good chunk of what has come instead has been to make the game nicer for a suburban mom and dad audience.
Townie ball.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1182 - 05/02/2025 21:25:11    2589680

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Replying To supersub15:  "Keep it simple.
Hand pass allowed in the middle third.
No hand pass allowed in the attacking third or the defending third.
I think that's reasonable and helpful."
OK, but 'old world' inter-zone kick passes would reduce player energy-sapping intensity. Does yours?
Let the ball do more ground cover.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3204 - 05/02/2025 22:25:43    2589692

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Require 'forward progress' -
Use the 45s to divide the pitch into three zones and in an unbroken sequence of passes:
have a max of one backward pass in each zone, otherwise
the ball must move forward (or result in a score or wide from Zone 3).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3204 - 05/02/2025 22:34:17    2589696

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Replying To supersub15:  "Keep it simple.
Hand pass allowed in the middle third.
No hand pass allowed in the attacking third or the defending third.
I think that's reasonable and helpful."
Is it not a case that the middle third is where keep ball is more of an issue? If taking that suggestion, allowing the attacking team handpassing in the defensive 45 only should encourage "vertical football".
I think the 12 v 11 needs to be looked at as the priority. The reasonable suggestion put forward is for 3 up and 4 back. The keeper can still come forward but another player has to drop back. 11 v 11 should be able to create man on man contests without any restrictions on handpasses. The defending zone would see at a minimum 3 v 3 as passing to the keeper isn't allowed.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8721 - 06/02/2025 01:06:21    2589705

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Is it not a case that the middle third is where keep ball is more of an issue? If taking that suggestion, allowing the attacking team handpassing in the defensive 45 only should encourage "vertical football".
I think the 12 v 11 needs to be looked at as the priority. The reasonable suggestion put forward is for 3 up and 4 back. The keeper can still come forward but another player has to drop back. 11 v 11 should be able to create man on man contests without any restrictions on handpasses. The defending zone would see at a minimum 3 v 3 as passing to the keeper isn't allowed."
While I get the frustration with sideline to sideline possession hand passing around the middle 3rd, I think players need to be able to slow the game up at time and catch a breath, otherwise we are needing to move to a US Sport template of 4 x Quarters and time outs. The only safe area a team can get room to reset is the middle 3rd.

The new rules have already put extra physical demands on the players to get even fitter, I think its not feasible to impose further hand passing restrictions.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1330 - 06/02/2025 10:10:49    2589726

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Replying To Commodore:  "While I get the frustration with sideline to sideline possession hand passing around the middle 3rd, I think players need to be able to slow the game up at time and catch a breath, otherwise we are needing to move to a US Sport template of 4 x Quarters and time outs. The only safe area a team can get room to reset is the middle 3rd.

The new rules have already put extra physical demands on the players to get even fitter, I think its not feasible to impose further hand passing restrictions."
That breather could still happen with some handpass restriction - there would just need to be some element of kick pass in there as well. But players slowing the game down needs to be on both teams terms - if the opposition don't want to take that breather and look at the over and back; a restriction on the handpass would help them contest the ball.

Having said that - any restriction on handpasses I've read here would either be difficult to referee consistently (counting passes - back passes - zones etc) or counterproductive working inside the 45. So I'd agree that its probably not feasible to impose hand passing restrictions.

We should prevent the 12 v 11 scenario though and that would at least give the opposition the chance to push out without playing basketball style piggy in the middle.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 420 - 06/02/2025 12:18:54    2589740

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@brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 379 - 06/02/2025

In lieu of required hand pass restrictions, would mandatory inter-zone kicks achieve the same thing?
Would it work, relieve fitness levels and be easier on the referee?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3204 - 06/02/2025 14:57:40    2589762

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3 hand passes before kicking,enforceable and will reduce keepball as kicking the ball runs a higher risk of actually losing possession,imagine that.

isfeidirrlinn (Armagh) - Posts: 9 - 06/02/2025 15:20:09    2589770

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Limiting hand-passing scoring off the hand + enforcing steps correctly = no need for 3 up rules. Very simple

Can we tackle the tackle after that?

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1182 - 06/02/2025 17:48:13    2589793

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Is it not a case that the middle third is where keep ball is more of an issue? If taking that suggestion, allowing the attacking team handpassing in the defensive 45 only should encourage "vertical football".
I think the 12 v 11 needs to be looked at as the priority. The reasonable suggestion put forward is for 3 up and 4 back. The keeper can still come forward but another player has to drop back. 11 v 11 should be able to create man on man contests without any restrictions on handpasses. The defending zone would see at a minimum 3 v 3 as passing to the keeper isn't allowed."
I will admit if our two theories went to a vote yours would win if for no other reason than to say you went to the bother of explaining the pros and cons of it and it looks convincing.

However I was basing my suggestion on the thread which ask's "Is There A Workable Solution To Limiting Handpasses In Football"? So I saw an opening to put a simple suggestion out there, I'm not saying for a minute that all of a student the problem is solved, but we would be limiting the hand passing to 33% of the playing pitch, so 66% of the pitch free of hand passing. I also believe that football from the old school will not come back to haunt us for those who thought it was laborious and antiquated etc.

The 11 v 11 should be able to create man on man contests without any restrictions on handpasses, I do agree with you there but, it is restrictions on the hand passing is what we are looking for.

So the middle third of the playing area says 33% of mix and match football with unlimited handpassing like we have now.

66% of the playing area has kick passing, solo runs, but no hand passing. I believe it would encourage players to be more accurate and consistent in winning and distribution of the ball and point scoring.

Today's players are faster and fitter, as the game changes so too will the players, they will in fact bring a new dimension to the game.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3160 - 06/02/2025 22:10:20    2589822

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For each 100 passes, how many do we want to see kicked?
I'll pitch mine - 33 (1 in 3).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3204 - 06/02/2025 22:40:10    2589824

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I asked the initial question: Is There A Workable Solution To Limiting Handpasses In Football?
If 12 v 11 is the source of the problem for creating piggy in the middle keep ball, the FRC need to rethink about allowing the keeper create the numerical advantage.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8721 - 07/02/2025 00:41:10    2589831

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