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Is There A Workable Solution To Limiting Handpasses In Football?

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Couple of people on here giving out about hand/fist passing. Limiting this has no bearing on the game. If defenders sit back , what do you want the players in possession to do? Nobody to blame only the players themselves, A bit more man to man marking would help. Remarks about paid managers wanting to win is silly.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2284 - 01/02/2025 01:34:56    2588725

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Couple of people on here giving out about hand/fist passing. Limiting this has no bearing on the game. If defenders sit back , what do you want the players in possession to do? Nobody to blame only the players themselves, A bit more man to man marking would help. Remarks about paid managers wanting to win is silly."
Why are you blaming the players…? Why do you think they are all sitting back in defence…? They are playing to a plan devised by these geniuses of coaches who are being paid.. Deviate from this plan and you're off the team… Saying that players are to blame is the real silly comment…. wake up there good lad…!!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3729 - 01/02/2025 08:41:08    2588732

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "You just don't get and the reason why this FRC nonsense was set up…… Wake up and smell the roses.."
You are absolutely exhausting. Wake up seems to be the only thing you can say in response to people. You have no involvement in coaching or playing and you just give out non stop and want changes that are not that simple.

You give out about new rules and then in the same breath give out that the game is terrible. So you will never be happy. Get off the couch and go coaching 3 or 4 nights if you want to change something. You won't though, because you haven't a notion.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8354 - 01/02/2025 10:21:25    2588740

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Couple of people on here giving out about hand/fist passing. Limiting this has no bearing on the game. If defenders sit back , what do you want the players in possession to do? Nobody to blame only the players themselves, A bit more man to man marking would help. Remarks about paid managers wanting to win is silly."
100% but if the players sitting back know that if they push up the opposition will just throw/handpass the ball around them. If they had to kick it instead, the incentive to push out would be greater. Stiing back is a symptom, not the problem.
It's too easy to keep possession, thats the fundamental underlying reason for a need to change. The easy handpass is the reason. 49 rules later and we haven't addressed it. Jim likes a handpass.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1182 - 01/02/2025 12:31:42    2588751

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The handpassing between the 45s is the main problem. A workable solution in that zone could make the difference.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8721 - 01/02/2025 13:27:19    2588757

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Just stop!
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2050 - 31/01/2025

That's allowed too, but not the best winning strategy.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3204 - 01/02/2025 17:00:09    2588775

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The handpassing between the 45s is the main problem. A workable solution in that zone could make the difference."
Kill two birds:
Limit of 3 passes (of any kind, foot or hand) between the 45s - so, reduces handpasses and forces 'timely forward progress'.
Back passes across the defensive 45 are allowed but count as part of the 'limit of 3', so after 3rd pass, team would likely need to kick beyond attacking 45.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3204 - 01/02/2025 17:17:29    2588777

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Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "100% but if the players sitting back know that if they push up the opposition will just throw/handpass the ball around them. If they had to kick it instead, the incentive to push out would be greater. Stiing back is a symptom, not the problem.
It's too easy to keep possession, thats the fundamental underlying reason for a need to change. The easy handpass is the reason. 49 rules later and we haven't addressed it. Jim likes a handpass."
Exactly, no word of hand passing when Dublin hand passed their way to multiple All Irelands. Very little wrong with the game and every game and every match is different.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2284 - 01/02/2025 20:13:44    2588797

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Replying To omahant:  "Kill two birds:
Limit of 3 passes (of any kind, foot or hand) between the 45s - so, reduces handpasses and forces 'timely forward progress'.
Back passes across the defensive 45 are allowed but count as part of the 'limit of 3', so after 3rd pass, team would likely need to kick beyond attacking 45."
The FRC in their infinite wisdom can try and come up with a workable solution between the two 45s. The constant handpassing is the one thing under constant negative criticism.
Could they limit handpassing from the attacking 45 to halfway and reset the count from halfway to the defensive 45? E.g. if receiving a handpass between the attacking 45 and halfway: cannot handpass. If gone beyond halfway in attacking possession: can handpass. No limits in the attacking 45 and defensive 45 but not allowed to gain advantage in passing the ball backwards.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8721 - 02/02/2025 01:27:08    2588826

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Exactly, no word of hand passing when Dublin hand passed their way to multiple All Irelands. Very little wrong with the game and every game and every match is different."
With the FRC supposed intention for "vertical football", controversial option of:
1. Only the attacking team allowed unlimited handpassing in the defensive 45.
2. In all other areas - a player receiving from a handpass cannot handpass.
3. To encourage vertical football:
a. Attacking player carrying the ball forward beyond his defensive 45 has count reset, so can handpass if had received from a handpass inside defensive 45.
b. Attacking player carrying the ball forward beyond his defensive half has count reset, so can handpass if had received from a handpass inside defensive half.
c. No reset of handpass count when ball played back into defensive half or defensive 45.

The encouragement for "vertical football" is to get the ball forward into the opponents defensive 45 for unlimited handpassing.
The encouragement for defending the defensive 45 is to push the opponent outside the defensive 45 for limited handpassing.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8721 - 02/02/2025 04:57:15    2588829

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Exactly, no word of hand passing when Dublin hand passed their way to multiple All Irelands. Very little wrong with the game and every game and every match is different."
You are correct, there is nothing wrong with the game, it's coaching that's the problem… Funny how the FRC went wild with all their silly changes… Having to wipe the ball and hand it back to your opponent or be slapped with a 50m penalty is nothing short of ridiculous… turning into a game for pansies…!!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3729 - 02/02/2025 08:02:27    2588831

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "You are correct, there is nothing wrong with the game, it's coaching that's the problem… Funny how the FRC went wild with all their silly changes… Having to wipe the ball and hand it back to your opponent or be slapped with a 50m penalty is nothing short of ridiculous… turning into a game for pansies…!!!"
Where do you coach yourself?

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8354 - 02/02/2025 10:14:35    2588846

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "You are correct, there is nothing wrong with the game, it's coaching that's the problem… Funny how the FRC went wild with all their silly changes… Having to wipe the ball and hand it back to your opponent or be slapped with a 50m penalty is nothing short of ridiculous… turning into a game for pansies…!!!"
Can't agree that it's coaching is the problem. The issue is simply that the o test for possession is not sufficiently defined. Its virtually impossible to turn the ball over going man for man across the pitch when the tackle is poorly defined, steps are not enforced, and the handpass has morphed into a throw.
The coaching innovation of packing defences was a solution to the deficiency in the rules. A lot of the FRC changes are cosmetic, and again treat symptoms of a pro lem, but the problem itself remains.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1182 - 02/02/2025 11:47:59    2588861

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@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8469 - 02/02/2025 01:27:08
Your comment
"....not allowed to gain advantage in passing the ball backwards...."

I don't understand what that means - is it 'no count reset'?
Anyway, I could agree with your unlimited handpassing in 1st & 3rd thirds of the field.
Curiously, you split the middle third in two - as one zone, it's only about 54 metres in Croke Park, so why split it?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3204 - 02/02/2025 22:49:23    2589093

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@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8469 - 02/02/2025 04:57:15
The encouragement for "vertical football" is to get the ball forward into the opponents defensive 45 for unlimited handpassing.
The encouragement for defending the defensive 45 is to push the opponent outside the defensive 45 for limited handpassing.

I found this humourous - like handpassing was the "be all and end all" - but I think I get your 'incentive' point.
This is line with my 'timely forward progress' wish.
Still, why have 'unlimited' handpasses anywhere (3rd third) - keep it to three there?

Separately, in the good old days (decades ago) when the ratio was a 4:1 kick-to-handpass ratio, do we want to return to that - with foot back in football - maybe we do?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3204 - 02/02/2025 23:03:35    2589100

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The FRC in their infinite wisdom can try and come up with a workable solution between the two 45s. The constant handpassing is the one thing under constant negative criticism.
Could they limit handpassing from the attacking 45 to halfway and reset the count from halfway to the defensive 45? E.g. if receiving a handpass between the attacking 45 and halfway: cannot handpass. If gone beyond halfway in attacking possession: can handpass. No limits in the attacking 45 and defensive 45 but not allowed to gain advantage in passing the ball backwards."
You ever try refereeing???

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 2128 - 03/02/2025 02:38:23    2589119

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Replying To omahant:  "@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8469 - 02/02/2025 04:57:15
The encouragement for "vertical football" is to get the ball forward into the opponents defensive 45 for unlimited handpassing.
The encouragement for defending the defensive 45 is to push the opponent outside the defensive 45 for limited handpassing.

I found this humourous - like handpassing was the "be all and end all" - but I think I get your 'incentive' point.
This is line with my 'timely forward progress' wish.
Still, why have 'unlimited' handpasses anywhere (3rd third) - keep it to three there?

Separately, in the good old days (decades ago) when the ratio was a 4:1 kick-to-handpass ratio, do we want to return to that - with foot back in football - maybe we do?"
Any restrictions on handpassing has to be workable for referees. Some suggest if you receive a handpass you cannot give a handpass. The drawback there is attackers trying to get through a compact defence.
The controversial suggestion then is to allow the attacking team handpassing without restriction in the defensive 45. Apply the receive a handpass cannot handpass in all other areas.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8721 - 03/02/2025 08:11:15    2589128

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Any limit on handpasses would at least want to allow for an attacking one-two. After the second handpass, a third handpass should at least potentially allow a fisted goal. If the ball is caught from the third consecutive handpass, turn over ball or is that limit too restrictive?
Suggestion 1: Limit of three consecutive handpasses. Kick pass without catching the ball or fist pass without catching the ball required after the third hand pass to reset the count. If the ball is caught after the third consecutive hand pass, turnover ball.
Arguable that a solo resets the count, e.g. if the player receiving after two consecutive handpasses solos, the count is reset.
Any workable solution has to be implementable by referees."
I already heard discussions saying we need more substitutions due to extra running players are doing under the new FRC rules is taking a huge toll on players fitness.

There's a fairly good chance if we just leave the new rules in place and let teams get used to playing under these new rules the game will end up evolving back to more kicking in the game as a style with more kicking will take less of a fitness toll and there will be players ahead of you to kick to under FRC rules.
(I hope they don't give in too soon on more subs, the fitness issue may be the thing that forces coaches to opt for more kicking).

The players playing the last 2 weekends have grown up playing in the era of possession football, if more kicking is going to come in it will take the players and coaches a bit of time to adapt.

After 2 weekends of matches under the new FRC rules it is not the time for more major changes.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1413 - 03/02/2025 09:53:46    2589152

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Any restrictions on handpassing has to be workable for referees. Some suggest if you receive a handpass you cannot give a handpass. The drawback there is attackers trying to get through a compact defence.
The controversial suggestion then is to allow the attacking team handpassing without restriction in the defensive 45. Apply the receive a handpass cannot handpass in all other areas."
A simple start is just to limit a) ball handpassed over the bar and b) balls fisted to the net from a handpass / throw across the goals. That change alone would give defenders some hope in the game. Easy to referee too. You wouldn't need a 2 point arc if you got rid of these literally 'handy' scores.
However, the big change can come from simply implementing the current rule - a clear underhand striking action.
Closed fist should be a must also.
You will see at least 20 thrown passes a game, maybe more if it's Kerry playing (!). Change the allowed action for now and see what happens.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1182 - 03/02/2025 22:28:42    2589306

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "I already heard discussions saying we need more substitutions due to extra running players are doing under the new FRC rules is taking a huge toll on players fitness.

There's a fairly good chance if we just leave the new rules in place and let teams get used to playing under these new rules the game will end up evolving back to more kicking in the game as a style with more kicking will take less of a fitness toll and there will be players ahead of you to kick to under FRC rules.
(I hope they don't give in too soon on more subs, the fitness issue may be the thing that forces coaches to opt for more kicking).

The players playing the last 2 weekends have grown up playing in the era of possession football, if more kicking is going to come in it will take the players and coaches a bit of time to adapt.

After 2 weekends of matches under the new FRC rules it is not the time for more major changes."
That's an interesting thought - to prevent fatigue, let the 'kicked' ball cover the mileage.

A non stater I suppose - I had an idea of 'requiring by rule' certain inter-zone kicks - like kicking from behind the defensive 45 to between the 65s (or beyond) - it would create midfield contests.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3204 - 04/02/2025 00:35:21    2589325

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