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Im not sute what the majority of peope think on this subject, but im of the form belief that the GAA's ptofessional era is inevitable and the GAA is undeniably on the cusp of a professional revolution.
If we scratch the surface of today's inter-county game, and you'll find that we've already reached a semi-professional status. The infrastructure is there, the money is flowing, and yet, the players - the very heart and soul of this game - remain unpaid.
Mileage payments for players? Sure.
Generous expenses for managers? Without question.
Counties employ full-time coaches, contract doctors, physios, nutritionists, and more.
On game day, everyone from security personnel to referees, programme sellers, and broadcasters are paid. And the players? Nothing.
All while TV rights are sold, kits are marketed, and player images are plastered across GAA Go, RTÉ, BBC, and social media to promote games that generate millions in revenue. The only ones not receiving their fair share of the pie are the players themselves.
The hypocrisy is glaring. Every aspect of the modern game from how it is marketed to the way it is consumed is professional! Except for those who sacrifice their time, careers, and bodies to deliver the entertainment the players
Ifully believe itss not a question of "if" anymore. It's a question of "when." Players will be paid in the coming years, whether it's through collective bargaining, legal action over image rights, or a natural evolution of the sport. This shift is inevitable and its also it's necessary.
If the GAA wants to retain its best talent, particularly those tempted by the allure of a professional career in Australia, it must embrace this change.
For young players, the AFL represents an incredible opportunity, professional structures, money, opportunities and the chance to test themselves at the highest level. Who could blame them for leaving? I certainly don't.
What can we do to prepare for this inevitablity?
The GAA can't keep burying its head in the sand, it must start planning for a professional era. This means transparent discussions about player compensation, developing sustainable financial models, and finding ways to ensure the amateur ethos remains at the grassroots while the inter-county game evolves.
We are dangerously close to a legal reckoning over image rights, and the GAA must act before it is forced to. Paying players isn't just about fairness, it's about survival. If we want to protect the future of the game, we need to stop pretending we're amateur when every other aspect of the sport is thoroughly commercialised.
The time for half-measures is over. These half measures are now starting to cause umissue with some county boards under the scrutiny of Revenue!
The professional era is knocking, and the GAA must decide whether to open the door willingly or have it kicked in by reality.
Either way, I'm fully sure it's coming. Let's be proactive not reactive for once.
Maybe I'm losing it but I can't see any other outcome then professionalism.
Meathooooo (Meath) - Posts: 94 - 14/12/2024 21:29:16
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Replying To Meathooooo: "Im not sute what the majority of peope think on this subject, but im of the form belief that the GAA's ptofessional era is inevitable and the GAA is undeniably on the cusp of a professional revolution.
If we scratch the surface of today's inter-county game, and you'll find that we've already reached a semi-professional status. The infrastructure is there, the money is flowing, and yet, the players - the very heart and soul of this game - remain unpaid.
Mileage payments for players? Sure.
Generous expenses for managers? Without question.
Counties employ full-time coaches, contract doctors, physios, nutritionists, and more.
On game day, everyone from security personnel to referees, programme sellers, and broadcasters are paid. And the players? Nothing.
All while TV rights are sold, kits are marketed, and player images are plastered across GAA Go, RTÉ, BBC, and social media to promote games that generate millions in revenue. The only ones not receiving their fair share of the pie are the players themselves.
The hypocrisy is glaring. Every aspect of the modern game from how it is marketed to the way it is consumed is professional! Except for those who sacrifice their time, careers, and bodies to deliver the entertainment the players
Ifully believe itss not a question of "if" anymore. It's a question of "when." Players will be paid in the coming years, whether it's through collective bargaining, legal action over image rights, or a natural evolution of the sport. This shift is inevitable and its also it's necessary.
If the GAA wants to retain its best talent, particularly those tempted by the allure of a professional career in Australia, it must embrace this change.
For young players, the AFL represents an incredible opportunity, professional structures, money, opportunities and the chance to test themselves at the highest level. Who could blame them for leaving? I certainly don't.
What can we do to prepare for this inevitablity?
The GAA can't keep burying its head in the sand, it must start planning for a professional era. This means transparent discussions about player compensation, developing sustainable financial models, and finding ways to ensure the amateur ethos remains at the grassroots while the inter-county game evolves.
We are dangerously close to a legal reckoning over image rights, and the GAA must act before it is forced to. Paying players isn't just about fairness, it's about survival. If we want to protect the future of the game, we need to stop pretending we're amateur when every other aspect of the sport is thoroughly commercialised.
The time for half-measures is over. These half measures are now starting to cause umissue with some county boards under the scrutiny of Revenue!
The professional era is knocking, and the GAA must decide whether to open the door willingly or have it kicked in by reality.
Either way, I'm fully sure it's coming. Let's be proactive not reactive for once.
Maybe I'm losing it but I can't see any other outcome then professionalism." With professionalism comes employment law being applicable. Which would mean player transfers to teams that pay better as denying transfers would be restriction of trade. This would accelerate the imbalances that are already evident and tbh would be the death of the GAA as we know it.
Amarach (Meath) - Posts: 53 - 15/12/2024 11:27:50
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Replying To Amarach: "With professionalism comes employment law being applicable. Which would mean player transfers to teams that pay better as denying transfers would be restriction of trade. This would accelerate the imbalances that are already evident and tbh would be the death of the GAA as we know it." Not necessarily the death but certainly change. It would depend on the renumeration, or hows it's introduced. Depends on contracts or simply some sort of proper expenses system. Lots in it
Meathooooo (Meath) - Posts: 94 - 15/12/2024 13:05:50
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Replying To Amarach: "With professionalism comes employment law being applicable. Which would mean player transfers to teams that pay better as denying transfers would be restriction of trade. This would accelerate the imbalances that are already evident and tbh would be the death of the GAA as we know it." Completely agree with this. If you have professionalism you have to have transfers. You then ruin the best part of the GAA and it becomes just another professional sport. Rugby sustains 4 professional teams with very high Irish prices for national team games. The league of Ireland can barely sustain their finances and they've a lot of semi professional clubs. The idea of being able to sustain 50+ professional teams in Ireland is not feasible unless they're full time all year round playing loads of games in which case you kill your club game. GAA should be very careful with the amount of professional creep they've allowed in an amateur organisation
LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1527 - 15/12/2024 17:47:00
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It would make scheduling easier for club and intercounty seasons. Separate them completely. If a player goes professional they shouldn't be returning to clubs until they finish their professional career. Not convinced there's enough revenue to be generated by attendances, TV and other media revenue including player endorsements so semi-professionalism to start us on the road. Some players might prefer their amateur status, playing football is their downtime from their careers and they've worked hard at both. Lots of factors, should be players deciding their future and not committees.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7702 - 15/12/2024 17:57:28
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Replying To GreenandRed: "It would make scheduling easier for club and intercounty seasons. Separate them completely. If a player goes professional they shouldn't be returning to clubs until they finish their professional career. Not convinced there's enough revenue to be generated by attendances, TV and other media revenue including player endorsements so semi-professionalism to start us on the road. Some players might prefer their amateur status, playing football is their downtime from their careers and they've worked hard at both. Lots of factors, should be players deciding their future and not committees." Very good point on revenue. It's definitely heading towards some form of professionalism. Hard to know, LOI struggles but lit is to do with It's own structures and inefficiencies.
Rugby is part of a European structure. IRFU run a very professional organisation. With a small national playing population.
Are Gaa numbers comparable to AFL? Players supporters revenue?
Meathooooo (Meath) - Posts: 94 - 15/12/2024 21:17:58
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Replying To LeitrimRoyal99: "Completely agree with this. If you have professionalism you have to have transfers. You then ruin the best part of the GAA and it becomes just another professional sport. Rugby sustains 4 professional teams with very high Irish prices for national team games. The league of Ireland can barely sustain their finances and they've a lot of semi professional clubs. The idea of being able to sustain 50+ professional teams in Ireland is not feasible unless they're full time all year round playing loads of games in which case you kill your club game. GAA should be very careful with the amount of professional creep they've allowed in an amateur organisation" Professional creep has crept! It's at a point where the big "P" can't really be ignored. How Gaa deals with it, is now probably the biggest decision since recent rule changes. I don't have answers just questions.
Meathooooo (Meath) - Posts: 94 - 15/12/2024 21:23:05
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One mechanism that could be enforced to stop Dublin(lets be honest here) from buying up all the talent, is that the nature of a transfer needs to be for the right reasons.
If a player wants to do a Shane Walsh and transfer up to the big smoke that's fine, but when it happens there should be a cooling off period where if a player who has represented their county in either code from Minor Level up, then they cannot represent their new county for a period of 2 years as a minimum in either code. During this period they also cant receive payments or expenses from their new club or county.
For it to work in Ireland there would also need to be a national banded payment system where there is a set limit across all clubs and counties as too what you can be paid and also expenses would need to be limited/stringently managed or dissolved entirely. Like in Oz club level have 3 bands - apprentice(less than 2 years seasons at senior level), -Pro(2+ years senior), -Marquee Player. Payments should be on a per game basis, max payment to Marquee players of €300(club level) and you can have a max of 3 nominated marquee players. That's similar to the ozzy club scene setup.
Counties obviously slightly higher payments but still similar structure.
Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 642 - 16/12/2024 09:17:15
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Honestly how big a professional game do people things the GAA can sustain?
The numbers just don't add up.
Can the GAA offer the average GAA player more than the 50K a year he gets teaching? definitely not.
So the argument that this will prevent player going to Oz is nonsense if they're still working 9-5.
It also changes the game, professionalism means movement means you remove the local/territorial aspect.
You need to amalgamate or lose ties to location all together to have any chance to get to 10-12 teams that the market may sustain.
Removing your supporters/volunteers/fundraisers from the team is not a wise strategy when the whole GAA 'Industry' relies on them buying tickets, going through turnstiles and volunteering because they feel a part of it.
How many clubs in Meath would buy a table at the North Leinster rovers GAA race day?
mlc800 (Meath) - Posts: 61 - 16/12/2024 11:07:16
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Replying To Irish_downunder: "One mechanism that could be enforced to stop Dublin(lets be honest here) from buying up all the talent, is that the nature of a transfer needs to be for the right reasons.
If a player wants to do a Shane Walsh and transfer up to the big smoke that's fine, but when it happens there should be a cooling off period where if a player who has represented their county in either code from Minor Level up, then they cannot represent their new county for a period of 2 years as a minimum in either code. During this period they also cant receive payments or expenses from their new club or county.
For it to work in Ireland there would also need to be a national banded payment system where there is a set limit across all clubs and counties as too what you can be paid and also expenses would need to be limited/stringently managed or dissolved entirely. Like in Oz club level have 3 bands - apprentice(less than 2 years seasons at senior level), -Pro(2+ years senior), -Marquee Player. Payments should be on a per game basis, max payment to Marquee players of €300(club level) and you can have a max of 3 nominated marquee players. That's similar to the ozzy club scene setup.
Counties obviously slightly higher payments but still similar structure." Great in theory but once you go professional the GAA have little to no control over who goes where similar to any other profession.
You cant tell an employee he cant leave or wont get paid for 2 years.
mlc800 (Meath) - Posts: 61 - 16/12/2024 11:12:13
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Forgive the essay but I think the debate around professionalism, while important to have, tends to get lost on a few misconceptions.
First misconception: that there is an existential threat posed by the AFL.
"The numbers are worth laying out, just for scale. Over the past 15 years, 45 players from 21 Irish counties have been signed by Aussie Rules clubs. After Kerry's seven, Kildare and Derry lost four apiece. Mayo, Westmeath and Down lost three. Everyone else lost two or fewer. But then again, "lost" is a bit of a misleading word here - of the 45, only 20 went on to play a game in Australia"
That's from a recent Malachy Clerkin piece. Those are small numbers. Fair play to the lads who made it, for those that didn't the majority came home and strengthened their counties having had a spell as full-time sporting apprentices. Even a list of those who 'made it' features plenty who returned to play inter-county at some stage.
Second misconception. Full professionalism would improve the lot of inter-county players.
A professional sport on a small island with no international element would have very low cap in terms of salary. Would players be better off? At present a good player can secure a college scholarship, often continue to study to masters level to remain a college player, can be motivated to secure a job (eg teaching) that works well with their dedication to sport, or will often be front-in-line for the jobs related to elite sport (eg S&C coaching, physio, nutritionists, development officers - all careers that can last beyond a playing career). And that's before you get to the players whose career in sales or as company reps owe a great deal to their inter-county status. Yes, players make sacrifices for the sport. But most end their careers with the experience of reaching the top of their chosen sport without the challenge of starting from scratch professionally in their early-to-mid thirties. How many players, if offered the chance to be professionals, would forgoe education to pursue the dream and live to regret it in their thirties?
Third misconception. The GAA needs to act like other sports.
I know many of us can overly romanticize the GAA but it IS unique. It can't be compared to other sports because it's a different entity entirely. If we think of it just as a 'product' or a 'job' that misses the point of the GAA. And we shouldn't base our decisions on what other sport do.
CBs are struggling financially. If professionalism came in it would just inflate this financial bubble even more. More people sniffing around to get a share of the pie. What if, instead, the GAA got serious about transparency on finances? Every county had to declare manager payments. Inter-county expenses were forensically examined. Any irregularities and a county could be turfed out of the AI. All commercial deals were pooled. Every county was operating on the same budget. Instead of a constant unhealthy increase of expenses (the habit of the commercially-focused professional sports) a steady manageable budget for each county. And this could have knock on affects for player welfare with strictly enforced rules on training load. And more resources put into facilities and player welfare.
The players would still get the satisfaction of reaching the pinnacle of their sport, still get their expenses, the many benefits-in-kind that come with the gig but they'd be fully rounded people with career and family commitments that are manageable alongside their playing time. That's the conversation that should be happening, not treating professionalism as a grim inevitability.
MeathAbroad (Meath) - Posts: 101 - 16/12/2024 11:42:34
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Replying To MeathAbroad: "Forgive the essay but I think the debate around professionalism, while important to have, tends to get lost on a few misconceptions.
First misconception: that there is an existential threat posed by the AFL.
"The numbers are worth laying out, just for scale. Over the past 15 years, 45 players from 21 Irish counties have been signed by Aussie Rules clubs. After Kerry's seven, Kildare and Derry lost four apiece. Mayo, Westmeath and Down lost three. Everyone else lost two or fewer. But then again, "lost" is a bit of a misleading word here - of the 45, only 20 went on to play a game in Australia"
That's from a recent Malachy Clerkin piece. Those are small numbers. Fair play to the lads who made it, for those that didn't the majority came home and strengthened their counties having had a spell as full-time sporting apprentices. Even a list of those who 'made it' features plenty who returned to play inter-county at some stage.
Second misconception. Full professionalism would improve the lot of inter-county players.
A professional sport on a small island with no international element would have very low cap in terms of salary. Would players be better off? At present a good player can secure a college scholarship, often continue to study to masters level to remain a college player, can be motivated to secure a job (eg teaching) that works well with their dedication to sport, or will often be front-in-line for the jobs related to elite sport (eg S&C coaching, physio, nutritionists, development officers - all careers that can last beyond a playing career). And that's before you get to the players whose career in sales or as company reps owe a great deal to their inter-county status. Yes, players make sacrifices for the sport. But most end their careers with the experience of reaching the top of their chosen sport without the challenge of starting from scratch professionally in their early-to-mid thirties. How many players, if offered the chance to be professionals, would forgoe education to pursue the dream and live to regret it in their thirties?
Third misconception. The GAA needs to act like other sports.
I know many of us can overly romanticize the GAA but it IS unique. It can't be compared to other sports because it's a different entity entirely. If we think of it just as a 'product' or a 'job' that misses the point of the GAA. And we shouldn't base our decisions on what other sport do.
CBs are struggling financially. If professionalism came in it would just inflate this financial bubble even more. More people sniffing around to get a share of the pie. What if, instead, the GAA got serious about transparency on finances? Every county had to declare manager payments. Inter-county expenses were forensically examined. Any irregularities and a county could be turfed out of the AI. All commercial deals were pooled. Every county was operating on the same budget. Instead of a constant unhealthy increase of expenses (the habit of the commercially-focused professional sports) a steady manageable budget for each county. And this could have knock on affects for player welfare with strictly enforced rules on training load. And more resources put into facilities and player welfare.
The players would still get the satisfaction of reaching the pinnacle of their sport, still get their expenses, the many benefits-in-kind that come with the gig but they'd be fully rounded people with career and family commitments that are manageable alongside their playing time. That's the conversation that should be happening, not treating professionalism as a grim inevitability." How many great players would we never have seen if it was only a certain level of education can make it. What a dark day for GAA!
Agree completely about forensic accounting. A ceiling should be put on finances and every cent should be accounted for.
CrookedSticks (Fermanagh) - Posts: 7 - 18/12/2024 13:10:54
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Replying To Meathooooo: "Im not sute what the majority of peope think on this subject, but im of the form belief that the GAA's ptofessional era is inevitable and the GAA is undeniably on the cusp of a professional revolution.
If we scratch the surface of today's inter-county game, and you'll find that we've already reached a semi-professional status. The infrastructure is there, the money is flowing, and yet, the players - the very heart and soul of this game - remain unpaid.
Mileage payments for players? Sure.
Generous expenses for managers? Without question.
Counties employ full-time coaches, contract doctors, physios, nutritionists, and more.
On game day, everyone from security personnel to referees, programme sellers, and broadcasters are paid. And the players? Nothing.
All while TV rights are sold, kits are marketed, and player images are plastered across GAA Go, RTÉ, BBC, and social media to promote games that generate millions in revenue. The only ones not receiving their fair share of the pie are the players themselves.
The hypocrisy is glaring. Every aspect of the modern game from how it is marketed to the way it is consumed is professional! Except for those who sacrifice their time, careers, and bodies to deliver the entertainment the players
Ifully believe itss not a question of "if" anymore. It's a question of "when." Players will be paid in the coming years, whether it's through collective bargaining, legal action over image rights, or a natural evolution of the sport. This shift is inevitable and its also it's necessary.
If the GAA wants to retain its best talent, particularly those tempted by the allure of a professional career in Australia, it must embrace this change.
For young players, the AFL represents an incredible opportunity, professional structures, money, opportunities and the chance to test themselves at the highest level. Who could blame them for leaving? I certainly don't.
What can we do to prepare for this inevitablity?
The GAA can't keep burying its head in the sand, it must start planning for a professional era. This means transparent discussions about player compensation, developing sustainable financial models, and finding ways to ensure the amateur ethos remains at the grassroots while the inter-county game evolves.
We are dangerously close to a legal reckoning over image rights, and the GAA must act before it is forced to. Paying players isn't just about fairness, it's about survival. If we want to protect the future of the game, we need to stop pretending we're amateur when every other aspect of the sport is thoroughly commercialised.
The time for half-measures is over. These half measures are now starting to cause umissue with some county boards under the scrutiny of Revenue!
The professional era is knocking, and the GAA must decide whether to open the door willingly or have it kicked in by reality.
Either way, I'm fully sure it's coming. Let's be proactive not reactive for once.
Maybe I'm losing it but I can't see any other outcome then professionalism." I don't think so!! Players will play just for the sake of playing and if players who want to be paid walk away I think the GAA will let them walk!
With pay comes all sorts of other complications - Rugby is starting to find that now!! Professional Soccer in Ireland has never worked successfully
Think of all the people who would love to play County and not care whether they were paid or not!! It is what the whole structure is built on!! I'm not saying it's right - but honestly can't see professional happening! It will be the death of the GAA in my view if it does!
Royalblufill (Meath) - Posts: 515 - 18/12/2024 19:51:05
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