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I'm not disagreeing, it always seems like we've a smaller team especially forwards and half forwards where you'd want the ball winners. Even our half backs aren't huge at the moment.
I guess the underage teams have to pick on merit. You pick your best hurlers in how well they hurl not on how tall their fathers are. I think at underage we have loads of development squads and once you're in them it's nearly harder to be put off em than get on em.
I get the point tho if there were beast of lads just off the standard then hang on to them for as long as possible because they might get there in the end.
But all being said you should always pick your best lads regardless. We need to find a way of using our smaller faster forwards instead of lumping the ball in to them and to some extent we've used the ball well in the later stages of the league.
I'd just be wary of oversimplification of our problems. Some say S&C some say this or that. I think it's more nuanced than any one thing.
Imagine the great Barca team with Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. I wonder if anyone in their academy ever thought they were too small
WEXILE (Wexford) - Posts: 323 - 31/03/2025 13:51:14
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Replying To WEXILE: "I'm not disagreeing, it always seems like we've a smaller team especially forwards and half forwards where you'd want the ball winners. Even our half backs aren't huge at the moment.
I guess the underage teams have to pick on merit. You pick your best hurlers in how well they hurl not on how tall their fathers are. I think at underage we have loads of development squads and once you're in them it's nearly harder to be put off em than get on em.
I get the point tho if there were beast of lads just off the standard then hang on to them for as long as possible because they might get there in the end.
But all being said you should always pick your best lads regardless. We need to find a way of using our smaller faster forwards instead of lumping the ball in to them and to some extent we've used the ball well in the later stages of the league.
I'd just be wary of oversimplification of our problems. Some say S&C some say this or that. I think it's more nuanced than any one thing.
Imagine the great Barca team with Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. I wonder if anyone in their academy ever thought they were too small" Messi, Iniesta or Xavi never had to contest a puck out in the air with TJ Reid or Kyle Hayes!!
Past hurler (None) - Posts: 883 - 31/03/2025 14:25:57
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Replying To WEXILE: "I'm not disagreeing, it always seems like we've a smaller team especially forwards and half forwards where you'd want the ball winners. Even our half backs aren't huge at the moment.
I guess the underage teams have to pick on merit. You pick your best hurlers in how well they hurl not on how tall their fathers are. I think at underage we have loads of development squads and once you're in them it's nearly harder to be put off em than get on em.
I get the point tho if there were beast of lads just off the standard then hang on to them for as long as possible because they might get there in the end.
But all being said you should always pick your best lads regardless. We need to find a way of using our smaller faster forwards instead of lumping the ball in to them and to some extent we've used the ball well in the later stages of the league.
I'd just be wary of oversimplification of our problems. Some say S&C some say this or that. I think it's more nuanced than any one thing.
Imagine the great Barca team with Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. I wonder if anyone in their academy ever thought they were too small" There a lot of reasons why we are where we are .
Always places for good hurlers regardless of size it just needs to be proportionate .
We have nt been at top table for long time and playing catch up . Even our leinster u21 winning teams were nt at same level of other province.
One or 2 good ball winners in forwards and backs certainly would help if we have smaller players round them .
The smaller hurler nowadays does not get same protection from refs as they used too . Players are coached so well to slow them down and stop them fouling them without being penalised Limerick mastered it killkenny too to an extent not criticism of either team just product of modern game.
All I m saying is we need to think outside the box when picking dev squads players .
If you don't make dev squad you most likely won't fulfil your potential . Don't know if politics still plays its part in selection for squads . Might also be losing quality players to other sports .
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 348 - 31/03/2025 14:29:42
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Replying To WEXILE: "I'm not disagreeing, it always seems like we've a smaller team especially forwards and half forwards where you'd want the ball winners. Even our half backs aren't huge at the moment.
I guess the underage teams have to pick on merit. You pick your best hurlers in how well they hurl not on how tall their fathers are. I think at underage we have loads of development squads and once you're in them it's nearly harder to be put off em than get on em.
I get the point tho if there were beast of lads just off the standard then hang on to them for as long as possible because they might get there in the end.
But all being said you should always pick your best lads regardless. We need to find a way of using our smaller faster forwards instead of lumping the ball in to them and to some extent we've used the ball well in the later stages of the league.
I'd just be wary of oversimplification of our problems. Some say S&C some say this or that. I think it's more nuanced than any one thing.
Imagine the great Barca team with Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. I wonder if anyone in their academy ever thought they were too small" It's funny you mention Barca and the players they had etc.
I think there's a bit of validity there but a saying that comes to mind is play to your strengths. That Barca team fkr that example didn't let themselves get dragged into an arm wrestle.
If you don't have the strength and size of your opponent then don't constantly bring the ball into contact for example. It felt to me last Saturday that we almost went looking for contact when there was no need. Gale force wind in the 1st half behind us and we set up defensively. We need to be more flexible and more clever.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1466 - 31/03/2025 14:32:13
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Replying To Past hurler: "Messi, Iniesta or Xavi never had to contest a puck out in the air with TJ Reid or Kyle Hayes!!" Ha true rhat
WEXILE (Wexford) - Posts: 323 - 31/03/2025 14:32:13
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I'm not saying all is rosy but for those expressing pessimism on the back of the U20 defeat on Saturday, if you're going to adopt a gloomy outlook, you also have to acknowledge:
(a) How many players we had who were up to the age
(b) The players we were missing, their age, how many years they've played U20, and whether they're also with the Seniors
(c) The players we had at our disposal and the tactics deployed in the game
Also, the best way to become a very good Senior team is to consistently produce good U20 teams (Or at least a golden generation every now and then plus some decent teams in between) but failing that, you can still produce a very good Senior team in the absence of good U20 teams *if* the U20 teams are top-heavy i.e. two or three stand-out hurlers but a load of hurlers not really anywhere close to playing Senior. A Senior side could include in theory the two best hurlers from each crop; produce two very good hurlers every year but nothing else and you'd have a good Senior side. Easier said than done although this year's crop might be one of those rare enough cases given we have Rowley, Byrne, and Roche
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 412 - 31/03/2025 14:59:13
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "I'm not saying all is rosy but for those expressing pessimism on the back of the U20 defeat on Saturday, if you're going to adopt a gloomy outlook, you also have to acknowledge:
(a) How many players we had who were up to the age
(b) The players we were missing, their age, how many years they've played U20, and whether they're also with the Seniors
(c) The players we had at our disposal and the tactics deployed in the game
Also, the best way to become a very good Senior team is to consistently produce good U20 teams (Or at least a golden generation every now and then plus some decent teams in between) but failing that, you can still produce a very good Senior team in the absence of good U20 teams *if* the U20 teams are top-heavy i.e. two or three stand-out hurlers but a load of hurlers not really anywhere close to playing Senior. A Senior side could include in theory the two best hurlers from each crop; produce two very good hurlers every year but nothing else and you'd have a good Senior side. Easier said than done although this year's crop might be one of those rare enough cases given we have Rowley, Byrne, and Roche" Agree 100%
I was at a seminar with a highly regarded coach who was a 96 all Ireland winner.
He said the ambition of every good club coach should be to produce 1 county minor every year.
If we can all do that we'll be there or thereabouts.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3461 - 31/03/2025 15:57:26
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "I'm not saying all is rosy but for those expressing pessimism on the back of the U20 defeat on Saturday, if you're going to adopt a gloomy outlook, you also have to acknowledge:
(a) How many players we had who were up to the age
(b) The players we were missing, their age, how many years they've played U20, and whether they're also with the Seniors
(c) The players we had at our disposal and the tactics deployed in the game
Also, the best way to become a very good Senior team is to consistently produce good U20 teams (Or at least a golden generation every now and then plus some decent teams in between) but failing that, you can still produce a very good Senior team in the absence of good U20 teams *if* the U20 teams are top-heavy i.e. two or three stand-out hurlers but a load of hurlers not really anywhere close to playing Senior. A Senior side could include in theory the two best hurlers from each crop; produce two very good hurlers every year but nothing else and you'd have a good Senior side. Easier said than done although this year's crop might be one of those rare enough cases given we have Rowley, Byrne, and Roche" What are the chances of Byrne and Rowley being back lads? From what ive seen of Roche and Rowley they could make really good senior hurlers for us if they continue to improve. Havent seen too much of Cillian Byrne but from what I hear he is very pacey and talented
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 482 - 31/03/2025 16:45:28
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "I'm not saying all is rosy but for those expressing pessimism on the back of the U20 defeat on Saturday, if you're going to adopt a gloomy outlook, you also have to acknowledge:
(a) How many players we had who were up to the age
(b) The players we were missing, their age, how many years they've played U20, and whether they're also with the Seniors
(c) The players we had at our disposal and the tactics deployed in the game
Also, the best way to become a very good Senior team is to consistently produce good U20 teams (Or at least a golden generation every now and then plus some decent teams in between) but failing that, you can still produce a very good Senior team in the absence of good U20 teams *if* the U20 teams are top-heavy i.e. two or three stand-out hurlers but a load of hurlers not really anywhere close to playing Senior. A Senior side could include in theory the two best hurlers from each crop; produce two very good hurlers every year but nothing else and you'd have a good Senior side. Easier said than done although this year's crop might be one of those rare enough cases given we have Rowley, Byrne, and Roche" Apart from Rowley, Byrne and Simon Roche would there be anyone else on the panel that anyone could for definite say that they'll be called in to the senior set up at some stage in the next 2/3 years?
At the moment it's fairly par for course for the last decade in terms of who goes on to play senior from 20s/21s. On average that is what we are doing is getting 2 or 3 lads from each crop of u20s per year. Off the top of my head I think on the team that won Leinster in 2019 there was 10/11 on that panel who had won a Leinster title between 2013-15.
We have 4 players that will be in the 26 for the championship for definite (Eoin Ryan, Foley, Cian Byrne, Jack Redmond)that played in u20 finals in 22 and 23.
OpenStandWall (Wexford) - Posts: 220 - 31/03/2025 17:28:06
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Replying To OpenStandWall: "Apart from Rowley, Byrne and Simon Roche would there be anyone else on the panel that anyone could for definite say that they'll be called in to the senior set up at some stage in the next 2/3 years?
At the moment it's fairly par for course for the last decade in terms of who goes on to play senior from 20s/21s. On average that is what we are doing is getting 2 or 3 lads from each crop of u20s per year. Off the top of my head I think on the team that won Leinster in 2019 there was 10/11 on that panel who had won a Leinster title between 2013-15.
We have 4 players that will be in the 26 for the championship for definite (Eoin Ryan, Foley, Cian Byrne, Jack Redmond)that played in u20 finals in 22 and 23." You forgot Richie Lawlor and Patsy Molloy. We don't have that many nailed on starters/subs from the 2019 to 2021 u20 teams though. That's a bit of an issue currently, but might not be if we keep getting 2 or 3 from the next few years.
From the 2024 graduates Dara Kehoe will possibly make it, Whelan maybe also. Wickham from Rathnure played well for his club last year, as did Parker. Molloy from Fethard has a bit of pace, and Darragh Farrell has potential also.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15252 - 31/03/2025 19:01:26
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Bad weekend to be a yellow belly but better days will come. The u19 was a ding dong match and despite kk getting a lead a lot of good play brought the match back to a narrow 3 point defeat. The result isnt the be all and end all. This is all about devolping chaps and preparing them for the next stage. Its a big step from u17 to u20 sp this is a very worthwhile opportunity. I was speaking to a chap involved who didn't make the minor squad but is really enjoying it and being exposed to that level.
I was told kk arent producing any young players by a kk man who knows his stuff.their underage record the last 10 years is also poor enough. He also said the reapointment of the u20 management team caused a stir in the county the majority wanted a change. Kk set up with neary sitting back and lyng also sitting back which forced wexford to play with a plus one.thats what it looked like to me anyway. What was frustrating was they made eoghan lyng look like a superstar. The wet conditions suited the slower player but on a dry day teams will be running at the line. The two players were obviously huge loses but it was one of those days where both teams will learn from and on a fine day i wouldn't fear that kk team infact i think management would relish a crack at them with a dry sod. 6 or 7 wides with the wind drained a bit of confidence and should of being 5 or 6 up at the break. Kk knew they could of being in a game and brought on murphy who is a absolute beast of a man. The kk lad beside me tells me theres a lot of talk about him but he is struggling with the demands on heavy training.he reckons he wont have the pace to make it at senior. He was rusty and a bit akward looking. This is a round robin and i think its no harm play a quarter final and avoid the 5 or 6 break sitting idle. Offally benefited from playing the quarter final last year. All in all i wouldn't fear that kk team and after a deafeat everything is wrong. Id be confident leassons will be learned from defeat and id be slow to give too much stick to these chaps who are the future. As i said already the leinster winning team of 2019 was backboned by good underage teams so its important to be very competitive at this level.
Hard luck to the footballers a great year just unlucky on the day. Great work going on and div 3 was the aim. Just the league final would of being the icing on the cake.
Slowandshortsighted (UK) - Posts: 49 - 31/03/2025 22:26:38
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Replying To OpenStandWall: "Apart from Rowley, Byrne and Simon Roche would there be anyone else on the panel that anyone could for definite say that they'll be called in to the senior set up at some stage in the next 2/3 years?
At the moment it's fairly par for course for the last decade in terms of who goes on to play senior from 20s/21s. On average that is what we are doing is getting 2 or 3 lads from each crop of u20s per year. Off the top of my head I think on the team that won Leinster in 2019 there was 10/11 on that panel who had won a Leinster title between 2013-15.
We have 4 players that will be in the 26 for the championship for definite (Eoin Ryan, Foley, Cian Byrne, Jack Redmond)that played in u20 finals in 22 and 23." I don't mean 2/3 players each year making the Senior panel, I mean being a starting-calibre player
You have to start fifteen no matter what but that doesn't mean you have 15 starting-calibre players and on the flip side, you could be like Cork right now and probably have a lot more than 15 starting-calibre players
And for what it's worth, I was only referencing those who are up to the age this year, think Purcell would be the only one outside of Roche, Rowley, and Byrne capable of making the cut, don't wish to comment on the 19yos and definitely don't want to judge the future prospects of the 18yos given the difference in physical development between an 18yo and a 20yo
I think the last line there is a glass half-empty approach, it'd hardly be that unlikely an outcome if Richie Lawlor, Patsy, Tucker Kinsella, CBD, and Simon Roche were all in the 26
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 412 - 31/03/2025 23:15:57
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "I don't mean 2/3 players each year making the Senior panel, I mean being a starting-calibre player
You have to start fifteen no matter what but that doesn't mean you have 15 starting-calibre players and on the flip side, you could be like Cork right now and probably have a lot more than 15 starting-calibre players
And for what it's worth, I was only referencing those who are up to the age this year, think Purcell would be the only one outside of Roche, Rowley, and Byrne capable of making the cut, don't wish to comment on the 19yos and definitely don't want to judge the future prospects of the 18yos given the difference in physical development between an 18yo and a 20yo
I think the last line there is a glass half-empty approach, it'd hardly be that unlikely an outcome if Richie Lawlor, Patsy, Tucker Kinsella, CBD, and Simon Roche were all in the 26" Tucker is a maybe, CBD unlikely yet as he's still seems light and unable to get the ball into his hand yet, although he's very good when he does. But 6 lads from the 22/23 u20 teams who are near certainties for the 26, and could even all start, is an excellent return just 2 or 3 years out of u20. If Tucker and CBD also make a matchday panel that would be 8 lads.
Credit to Keith and his management team for getting these lads over the massive hurdle so quickly, well its more a fence than a hurdle, that is the gap between u20 and Senior.
Dylan Purcell looks a good prospect for sure, and maybe Michael Furlong. Luke Murphy maybe also, if he stays working on and off the pitch. Hard to tell yet with these lads.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15252 - 01/04/2025 08:13:26
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "I don't mean 2/3 players each year making the Senior panel, I mean being a starting-calibre player
You have to start fifteen no matter what but that doesn't mean you have 15 starting-calibre players and on the flip side, you could be like Cork right now and probably have a lot more than 15 starting-calibre players
And for what it's worth, I was only referencing those who are up to the age this year, think Purcell would be the only one outside of Roche, Rowley, and Byrne capable of making the cut, don't wish to comment on the 19yos and definitely don't want to judge the future prospects of the 18yos given the difference in physical development between an 18yo and a 20yo
I think the last line there is a glass half-empty approach, it'd hardly be that unlikely an outcome if Richie Lawlor, Patsy, Tucker Kinsella, CBD, and Simon Roche were all in the 26" Forgot about Lawlor and Patsy, for some reason I thought their last year of u20 was in 2021… so then you're talking possibly 6 of the starting 15 alone being u20 in the last 2 to 3 years.
OpenStandWall (Wexford) - Posts: 220 - 01/04/2025 09:12:31
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Replying To Slowandshortsighted: "Bad weekend to be a yellow belly but better days will come. The u19 was a ding dong match and despite kk getting a lead a lot of good play brought the match back to a narrow 3 point defeat. The result isnt the be all and end all. This is all about devolping chaps and preparing them for the next stage. Its a big step from u17 to u20 sp this is a very worthwhile opportunity. I was speaking to a chap involved who didn't make the minor squad but is really enjoying it and being exposed to that level.
I was told kk arent producing any young players by a kk man who knows his stuff.their underage record the last 10 years is also poor enough. He also said the reapointment of the u20 management team caused a stir in the county the majority wanted a change. Kk set up with neary sitting back and lyng also sitting back which forced wexford to play with a plus one.thats what it looked like to me anyway. What was frustrating was they made eoghan lyng look like a superstar. The wet conditions suited the slower player but on a dry day teams will be running at the line. The two players were obviously huge loses but it was one of those days where both teams will learn from and on a fine day i wouldn't fear that kk team infact i think management would relish a crack at them with a dry sod. 6 or 7 wides with the wind drained a bit of confidence and should of being 5 or 6 up at the break. Kk knew they could of being in a game and brought on murphy who is a absolute beast of a man. The kk lad beside me tells me theres a lot of talk about him but he is struggling with the demands on heavy training.he reckons he wont have the pace to make it at senior. He was rusty and a bit akward looking. This is a round robin and i think its no harm play a quarter final and avoid the 5 or 6 break sitting idle. Offally benefited from playing the quarter final last year. All in all i wouldn't fear that kk team and after a deafeat everything is wrong. Id be confident leassons will be learned from defeat and id be slow to give too much stick to these chaps who are the future. As i said already the leinster winning team of 2019 was backboned by good underage teams so its important to be very competitive at this level.
Hard luck to the footballers a great year just unlucky on the day. Great work going on and div 3 was the aim. Just the league final would of being the icing on the cake." My assumption is that the U20 team is made up of 20 year olds or lads that are in their last year .. and then anyone else players with the U19 development squad i.e. last years Minor panel or anyone know rough break down of ages?
What worries me slightly is that of the 24 players named on the panel about 4 of them were starting with their Clubs first team last year, another 4 were subs, one was a sub on the clubs second team and the rest weren't named on their first or second team.
So that begs the question - are the best players been picked .. are the players up to the age been picked and if not why?
Just basing this on munster teams - there aren't too many of the Limerick / Cork / Tipp players not hurling with their clubs first team.
MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 173 - 01/04/2025 09:17:58
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Replying To MyOhMi: "My assumption is that the U20 team is made up of 20 year olds or lads that are in their last year .. and then anyone else players with the U19 development squad i.e. last years Minor panel or anyone know rough break down of ages?
What worries me slightly is that of the 24 players named on the panel about 4 of them were starting with their Clubs first team last year, another 4 were subs, one was a sub on the clubs second team and the rest weren't named on their first or second team.
So that begs the question - are the best players been picked .. are the players up to the age been picked and if not why?
Just basing this on munster teams - there aren't too many of the Limerick / Cork / Tipp players not hurling with their clubs first team." Surely lads playing on the u20 team at least started on their clubs second team last year? In my opinion to be good enough for u20 county you should be there or there abouts starting for all first teams in the county
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 482 - 01/04/2025 09:52:27
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Replying To Afinestick96: "Surely lads playing on the u20 team at least started on their clubs second team last year? In my opinion to be good enough for u20 county you should be there or there abouts starting for all first teams in the county" I agree with this and when lads talk about Kilkennys physicality, yes it can mean height and physique but physicality also comes from playing first team adult hurling, competing and getting the better of fully grown men.
No amount of gym work beats fighting for a ball with a grown man, and yes gym work helps with that.
Tommy Walsh from Kilkenny had it abundance.
If lads aged 19 or 20 starting on the under 20 county team are not making regular gametime on their first adult club team that would be a worry for me.
My thinking would be there couldn't be 15 better adult club players that are better than your star county 20 year old even if 1 or 2 of them adult club players are senior county men too.
Past hurler (None) - Posts: 883 - 01/04/2025 10:44:18
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Replying To Afinestick96: "Surely lads playing on the u20 team at least started on their clubs second team last year? In my opinion to be good enough for u20 county you should be there or there abouts starting for all first teams in the county" I'd have to agree - and that is where my question came from. I took a quick look through of last Round of hurling championship last year to see how many of the U20 panel were named. That is where my data came from.
I'd also be a big advocate that if an inter county senior player cannot stand out on his own club team then he has no place been in an inter county setup. I do think there are a few players in the current setup guilty of that in my opinion. I've nothing against players been from Senior / Inter / Junior clubs - MOH for example was always a stand out player for St. James.
MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 173 - 01/04/2025 10:57:45
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Replying To OpenStandWall: "Forgot about Lawlor and Patsy, for some reason I thought their last year of u20 was in 2021… so then you're talking possibly 6 of the starting 15 alone being u20 in the last 2 to 3 years." Yep. And that's very good I think.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15252 - 01/04/2025 11:01:55
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Replying To MyOhMi: "My assumption is that the U20 team is made up of 20 year olds or lads that are in their last year .. and then anyone else players with the U19 development squad i.e. last years Minor panel or anyone know rough break down of ages?
What worries me slightly is that of the 24 players named on the panel about 4 of them were starting with their Clubs first team last year, another 4 were subs, one was a sub on the clubs second team and the rest weren't named on their first or second team.
So that begs the question - are the best players been picked .. are the players up to the age been picked and if not why?
Just basing this on munster teams - there aren't too many of the Limerick / Cork / Tipp players not hurling with their clubs first team." Not sure why more lads up to the age weren't picked to be honest. Think only 4 up to the age played on Saturday. 8 lads fresh out of minor played. Hughes and Quigley I think are exceptionally good for their age, both played well Saturday, but the others definitely looked light and lacking in physicality and confidence.
At the same time it was an irrelevant game, so if there was a feeling that the younger lads needed to get championship gametime to help their development for next years u20 campaign, then that was probably the game to do it in.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15252 - 01/04/2025 11:06:36
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