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Replying To togoutlads: "So in Galway we largely have ourselves to blame for screwing up that golden opportunity but nonetheless, congrats to Armagh and wish them well but I've more than a couple of gripes with the result.
For one thing, Damien Comer's hawk eye 'wide' was indeed a point, it was never a Hawk Eye situation. Hawk eye can't clearly detect balls that get just mm or even a cm or two inside the line of the post - that's known by folks that work for the supplier, so it defaults to a Níl verdict of inline with the post. The umpires copped out. I would say a good 5,000 plus people from both sets of supporters with the right angle on the shot could clearly see it was over. Some decent Armagh folks said it to us. A BS call.
Another one - a man who has previously served a 6 month ban, has a litany of club and county cards and disciplinary issues, and prides himself on being an enforcer is Armagh CHB, Tiernan Kelly. I believe he may have targeted Rob Finnerty's knee with that foul hit. Play the video, folks. I believe he premeditated hitting him very hard and very seemingly 'awkwardly' to take him out. I believe it was discussed beforehand with Armagh mgmt. I've good reason to believe all this. Rob Finnerty was highlighted for 2 wks in the Armagh camp as the real scoring threat from Galway (more so than our other lauded forwards!), and they had a full history on his injury and recuperation, they knew we hadn't another dedicated free taker and he was deemed a huge scoring threat on the day. They knew his knee was only just coming right and they knew that he was susceptible to repeat injury under a big or 'awkward' challenge. They went after him early in the game. Pathetic on Kelly and Armagh's part to do so - not the way to win one.
I also feel that a defender bear hugging and even hugging face to face a player while off the ball is always a foul but is never called any more by umpires, linesmen or refs. The TV misses this stuff but Damien Comer, as with the Donegal match, was actually bear hugged repeatedly throughout the game, often face to face in an act of intimidation. It would be flagged and acted on in a juvenile club game but why is it tolerated at the pinnacle of our game? How is it ok for our games marquee forwards to be fully held off the ball? When did that become fully acceptable and not acted on by our officials? It's a factor in Gaelic footballs current slide as a sport vs hurling - where it certainly happens too but to a much lesser extent." Sad response by any one's standards. Blame Armagh, blame a Tyrone ref, blame hawk eye, God forbid it you blamed Walsh, Comer, and Galway for not being good enough. Our neighbours Armagh won and well done to them and all the other Ulster teams who won All Irelands this year. You have good reason to believe something, I have good reason to believe Sean Cavanagh got targeted for years but very few took notice.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2150 - 30/07/2024 13:35:59
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all the media lauding comer and walsh, no mention of the rest of the lads, barely even a mention. comer and walsh arent in the top 5 players for galway this year.
im not sure how much the "experts" actually watched our matches but o'donoghue from kerry made a good point, rian wasn't hugely effective but got himself into the game, not neccesarily on the score board just through tackling and being a menace
cavan.galway (Galway) - Posts: 212 - 30/07/2024 14:44:02
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Replying To Saynothing: "Sad response by any one's standards. Blame Armagh, blame a Tyrone ref, blame hawk eye, God forbid it you blamed Walsh, Comer, and Galway for not being good enough. Our neighbours Armagh won and well done to them and all the other Ulster teams who won All Irelands this year. You have good reason to believe something, I have good reason to believe Sean Cavanagh got targeted for years but very few took notice." Comers issue was that he was being dragged of the ball. He didn't need to be, he was only about 50% fit. He followed the full back up the field at one stage during the SF and I thought he was going to have to be carried back.
Shane Walsh wasn't able to track his man on Sunday and he scored the match winning goal as a result.
You should look closer to home if you're looking for reasons for defeat.
peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1036 - 30/07/2024 14:53:07
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Armagh All-Ireland champions 2024! Well done to Armagh, Geezer and the Cross boys!
Never thought I'd be logging in to say that in the past years.
Hard luck to Galway, I know it hurts. You'll be back one day. For those of you too young to remember. Watch the 01 quarter final. Galway pipped us that day with 72:50 on the clock with 3 minutes added. We were attacking and got blocked down. Whatever your going through trust me we've been there already.
Dessie_Cross (Armagh) - Posts: 145 - 30/07/2024 16:30:30
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "The writing was on the wall for Galway when our very own prophet "Nonothinadamus" under the alias "Limerick for Liam 24" predicted a Galway win.That poster would nt pick his nose.The positive is in future whoever he tips back the opposite and guarenteed win." Close games can often be exciting, particularly if you're in a packed stadium. I also agree there is a greater appreciation for skills levels, level of pressure etc when you're up near the players in the stadium.
But let's not overstate things either. Viewers definitely can ask for more from a final. The more engaging styles of play are not mythical, they existed 10, 20 years ago etc. Nobody wants to bring it back to just hoofing the ball like in the 1970s. But there was a lot of positive evolution of the game between the 1970s and in recent years when Dublin introduced and perfected, and others copied, this dour, boring, negative style with packed defences, no high-fielding, high percentage shots only. A few tweaks of the rules could bring big benefits, like when they banned backpasses in soccer. Armagh winning is a good thing as they are probably one of the more attacking teams nowadays, and just generally deserved it this year anyway, but there is definitely room for improvement for the game as a whole.
CorkLiamMcCarthy24 (Cork) - Posts: 41 - 30/07/2024 22:24:52
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Replying To cavan.galway: "all the media lauding comer and walsh, no mention of the rest of the lads, barely even a mention. comer and walsh arent in the top 5 players for galway this year.
im not sure how much the "experts" actually watched our matches but o'donoghue from kerry made a good point, rian wasn't hugely effective but got himself into the game, not neccesarily on the score board just through tackling and being a menace" O'Donoghue backed against Galway in every game apart from the final. He has been wrong every time in a game involving Galway. 4 of the starting Galway forwards are going for surgery the guys were injured for weeks and unfit. Why do you think Galway left 3 forwards upfront at all times?
Kew (Galway) - Posts: 100 - 31/07/2024 01:39:26
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I am away on holidays so I didn't get to see the match, just a few clips on the rte website the day of the match.
I'm happy for Armagh that they won.
From reading reports of the game I can see the type of game it was. It seems Armagh did what they had to do to win and fair play to them, it won them the game.
But it makes no sense to me why some posters supporting them want to turn this into a debate defending the modern style of play.
I think most neutral posters shortly after a team wins an all Ireland don't want to bring the champions down by saying they think the way the game was played was boring as it was played in the modern style.
Most people who find the modern style boring don't really blame individual teams rather the GAA rule makers.
GreenMan1987 (Meath) - Posts: 50 - 31/07/2024 08:00:12
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Replying To CorkLiamMcCarthy24: "Close games can often be exciting, particularly if you're in a packed stadium. I also agree there is a greater appreciation for skills levels, level of pressure etc when you're up near the players in the stadium.
But let's not overstate things either. Viewers definitely can ask for more from a final. The more engaging styles of play are not mythical, they existed 10, 20 years ago etc. Nobody wants to bring it back to just hoofing the ball like in the 1970s. But there was a lot of positive evolution of the game between the 1970s and in recent years when Dublin introduced and perfected, and others copied, this dour, boring, negative style with packed defences, no high-fielding, high percentage shots only. A few tweaks of the rules could bring big benefits, like when they banned backpasses in soccer. Armagh winning is a good thing as they are probably one of the more attacking teams nowadays, and just generally deserved it this year anyway, but there is definitely room for improvement for the game as a whole." Dublin reacted to packed defenses and came up with a system that could break it down, and did so very successfully.
You don't play to the other teams strengths, you counter it.
They rendered packed defenses useless there for a while and prospered greatly.
Dublin could play anyway they wanted, but it got to the stage where almost every team just packed players back against them, Dublin could only counter what was being put to them, you don't play to your oppositions strengths, you don't run into their traps.
Teams didn't want to go man v man when playing Dublin, and Dublin were adequately prepared for that post 2014 especially, but again, setup in any way you liked, Dublin would have happily gone man v man.. np bother at all.
They played against it all and won.
But it's clear as day, heavily Defensive football was around long before Gavin came up with a system that dismantled it, practically rendering it useless.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20687 - 31/07/2024 13:57:12
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Replying To jimbodub: "Dublin reacted to packed defenses and came up with a system that could break it down, and did so very successfully.
You don't play to the other teams strengths, you counter it.
They rendered packed defenses useless there for a while and prospered greatly.
Dublin could play anyway they wanted, but it got to the stage where almost every team just packed players back against them, Dublin could only counter what was being put to them, you don't play to your oppositions strengths, you don't run into their traps.
Teams didn't want to go man v man when playing Dublin, and Dublin were adequately prepared for that post 2014 especially, but again, setup in any way you liked, Dublin would have happily gone man v man.. np bother at all.
They played against it all and won.
But it's clear as day, heavily Defensive football was around long before Gavin came up with a system that dismantled it, practically rendering it useless." Dublin had a generational team with maybe 20-25 lads who would be starters on any other team. It wasn't just about playing to your players strengths, or devising ways to counteract defensive systems, you had really strong players in every position and on the bench also.
Basically if you have far better players, and they play their hardest, you will likely win whatever defensive system your opponents employ.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 31/07/2024 16:34:01
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Replying To jimbodub: "Dublin reacted to packed defenses and came up with a system that could break it down, and did so very successfully.
You don't play to the other teams strengths, you counter it.
They rendered packed defenses useless there for a while and prospered greatly.
Dublin could play anyway they wanted, but it got to the stage where almost every team just packed players back against them, Dublin could only counter what was being put to them, you don't play to your oppositions strengths, you don't run into their traps.
Teams didn't want to go man v man when playing Dublin, and Dublin were adequately prepared for that post 2014 especially, but again, setup in any way you liked, Dublin would have happily gone man v man.. np bother at all.
They played against it all and won.
But it's clear as day, heavily Defensive football was around long before Gavin came up with a system that dismantled it, practically rendering it useless." If your last paragraph has any grain of sense to it, why is defensive football all the rage and winning the 2024 allireland, and why aren't Dublin still winning every year, when they have a system that dismantles defensive football, and renders it practically useless?
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3875 - 31/07/2024 22:38:39
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Replying To Pope_Benedict: "If your last paragraph has any grain of sense to it, why is defensive football all the rage and winning the 2024 allireland, and why aren't Dublin still winning every year, when they have a system that dismantles defensive football, and renders it practically useless?" They don't have far better players any more. Still very good, but not far better.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 01/08/2024 08:45:30
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You can't be blaming Dublin for the current trends of football. I've seen others still blaming Jim McGuinness even though prior to this year he hadn't been involved in the GAA for a decade. Nearly all teams have adopted the mantra that "possession is king" and that risk is to be avoided unless absolutely necessary. Teams play around the periphery of the D, avoiding contact until a gap appears to get a shot off. People are starting to find this boring.
And yet for example, when a team like Derry in 2024 (and Dublin before them in 2014) went full press attack, they were dismissed as being naive. I'm not sure what rules can achieve a happy medium here unless all managers suddenly agreed to go back to old style man-on-man traditional 3-3-2-3-3 formations. Highly unlikely, given the pressure these days to win at all costs.
I think it is going to be up to the likes of Kieran McGeeney, Dessie Farrell, Padraic Joyce, Jim McGuinness etc - the highest profile managers to come up with something new tactically in 2025. As previously mentioned on other threads, next year's championship looks like it'll be the most competitive in a long time. So the team who can come up with something novel, may well be the team who gains the edge on the others. Now hopefully this will be in an attacking sense, and it won't go the other way - where teams seek to further eliminate risk and negate the opposition rather than seizing the day themselves.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9518 - 01/08/2024 09:46:55
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Replying To Pope_Benedict: "If your last paragraph has any grain of sense to it, why is defensive football all the rage and winning the 2024 allireland, and why aren't Dublin still winning every year, when they have a system that dismantles defensive football, and renders it practically useless?" I'd say it's because Dessie Farrell is no Jim Gavin. For me Gavin is the main reason for that wave of success with Dublin. When he first started winning AI's the spine of his team was still the players who struggled for years to get over the line (the Brogans, Bastick, Brennan, Cluxton, etc). Gilroy may have opened the door with that squad but Gavin took the door off its hinges. The only manager to really match up to him was McGuinness in 2014, a worthy rival. But since he departed Dublin have gone a few steps back and seem a lot more beatable now. My guess is, if Jim Gavin was still in.charge, Dublin would be AI champions this year. But that's neither here nor there and for what it's worth, Im glad things have evened out a bit. It was becoming a formality every year.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2501 - 01/08/2024 10:26:37
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Replying To Lockjaw: "You can't be blaming Dublin for the current trends of football. I've seen others still blaming Jim McGuinness even though prior to this year he hadn't been involved in the GAA for a decade. Nearly all teams have adopted the mantra that "possession is king" and that risk is to be avoided unless absolutely necessary. Teams play around the periphery of the D, avoiding contact until a gap appears to get a shot off. People are starting to find this boring.
And yet for example, when a team like Derry in 2024 (and Dublin before them in 2014) went full press attack, they were dismissed as being naive. I'm not sure what rules can achieve a happy medium here unless all managers suddenly agreed to go back to old style man-on-man traditional 3-3-2-3-3 formations. Highly unlikely, given the pressure these days to win at all costs.
I think it is going to be up to the likes of Kieran McGeeney, Dessie Farrell, Padraic Joyce, Jim McGuinness etc - the highest profile managers to come up with something new tactically in 2025. As previously mentioned on other threads, next year's championship looks like it'll be the most competitive in a long time. So the team who can come up with something novel, may well be the team who gains the edge on the others. Now hopefully this will be in an attacking sense, and it won't go the other way - where teams seek to further eliminate risk and negate the opposition rather than seizing the day themselves." Seeing as the man in possession can do what he likes and you can only tackle the ball, there won't be any rush to move from the boring possession safety first game.
Why is pulling the ball from a man's hands still a foul?
Make it legal and you have some equalisation of the carrier/tackler relationship.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1951 - 01/08/2024 10:33:16
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Replying To Pope_Benedict: "If your last paragraph has any grain of sense to it, why is defensive football all the rage and winning the 2024 allireland, and why aren't Dublin still winning every year, when they have a system that dismantles defensive football, and renders it practically useless?" It might have something to do with that concept commonly referred to as 'Time'.
Teams aren't simply machines with cogs and motors which operate a 'system'. Players age, and they lose their edge and appetite especially at elite levels in amateur sport.
WE pin our hopes and dreams on these men and women but there always comes a time when they can no longer deliver.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1990 - 01/08/2024 14:04:52
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I see the Armagh home coming at Athletic grounds looked like a better spectacle than the actual All Ireland final celebrations with the crowd and flags on pitch. Plus they didn't have to sit through a poor game of football before it. Maybe there should be a ticket scramble for home comings instead.
PattyONeill (Derry) - Posts: 246 - 02/08/2024 17:21:48
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Replying To PattyONeill: "I see the Armagh home coming at Athletic grounds looked like a better spectacle than the actual All Ireland final celebrations with the crowd and flags on pitch. Plus they didn't have to sit through a poor game of football before it. Maybe there should be a ticket scramble for home comings instead." Patty, the match on Sunday was the joint best game I've ever witnessed after a certain game in 02. When you're a little older, you might, if you're very lucky, experience something similar. Until then, you'll just never understand it.
sam2024 (Armagh) - Posts: 38 - 02/08/2024 22:52:10
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