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Replying To Pikeman96: "Yeah, Castletown are another example of how a championship at a younger age group can be held up by some of the players lining out at an older level.
Just to be clear I'm not blaming either themselves or Rathnure for the situation! Am just pointing out that's the way it is.
Their football semi-final v Shels is fixed for 22nd December, and yes, the final v Duffry Rovers is currently fixed for 28th December. But I believe the Duffry are looking for a postponement as they have some sort of other event that day, so the final is likely to go into January all right.
Either way, it all goes back to what I said at the start about the U21 grade being problematic. These are basically straight knock-out championships that only take four rounds of matches in hurling and four in football, and even still, it's a struggle to get them played in the calendar year." It's a tough one ok. It's an important grade for player retention though.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 13/12/2024 13:56:13
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Replying To Viking66: "It's a tough one ok. It's an important grade for player retention though." Its an age group where everyone puts winning before player retention. Nobody will play during the Adult championship without the lads who play adult which means the players who don't give up soon enough. If clubs cannot field teams without their adult players then let them combine with others. Something more radical is needed to fix the problem but I am not sure there is any appetite as the nobody seems interested in it.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1904 - 13/12/2024 18:42:59
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Replying To tearintom: "It goes back to the same issue, too many games at adult level and bizarrely we had a situation where clubs voted for even more games this year than before which turned out to be a disaster emphasising the point I've been making for a long time that more games doesn't necessarily mean better.
It's very simple, if clubs want the u21 grade to be treated better (which it should imho as thr drop off from minor to adult is crippling clubs) and others want weekends off to attend a drinking session in Laois then the trade off is less games in championships, not pipe dreams of multiple domes to play games and jiggling of calendars or ignoring central gaa rules.
To be honest the more I look at it less games that actually mean more is the way to go." Spot on
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 13/12/2024 21:45:39
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Replying To zinny: "Its an age group where everyone puts winning before player retention. Nobody will play during the Adult championship without the lads who play adult which means the players who don't give up soon enough. If clubs cannot field teams without their adult players then let them combine with others. Something more radical is needed to fix the problem but I am not sure there is any appetite as the nobody seems interested in it." If we had 4 team groups in 12 or 16 team grades, we could play u21 in the new gap weeks.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 14/12/2024 08:39:49
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Replying To Viking66: "If we had 4 team groups in 12 or 16 team grades, we could play u21 in the new gap weeks." So long as you didn't even think about putting an U21 match on during Electric Picnic weekend! :D
But seriously, then you'd probably have even more managers giving out about what Skippy Ruth was giving out about this week.
Say a club wins a senior hurling semi-final, and the senior final is fixed for a fortnight later. The week in between is one of the new 'gap weeks' that's supposed to be for U21. The club is still in the U21 championship, and is fixed to play that weekend. An U21 player who also lines out with the seniors gets injured in that match, and then you're back to the Skippy square one....
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2648 - 14/12/2024 21:31:31
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Replying To Pikeman96: "So long as you didn't even think about putting an U21 match on during Electric Picnic weekend! :D
But seriously, then you'd probably have even more managers giving out about what Skippy Ruth was giving out about this week.
Say a club wins a senior hurling semi-final, and the senior final is fixed for a fortnight later. The week in between is one of the new 'gap weeks' that's supposed to be for U21. The club is still in the U21 championship, and is fixed to play that weekend. An U21 player who also lines out with the seniors gets injured in that match, and then you're back to the Skippy square one...." I find it mad how we could play out all these championships back in the day, not even too long ago, and it was accepted that you might be missing a lad or two, or could have a few playing two games in a short timeframe, but you got on with it. And that was when there wasn't a split season. Going to a festival/travelling is a privilege and shouldn't be justifiable means to not fix games.
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1460 - 15/12/2024 09:32:56
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Replying To beano: "I find it mad how we could play out all these championships back in the day, not even too long ago, and it was accepted that you might be missing a lad or two, or could have a few playing two games in a short timeframe, but you got on with it. And that was when there wasn't a split season. Going to a festival/travelling is a privilege and shouldn't be justifiable means to not fix games." Couldn't agree more.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1435 - 15/12/2024 09:59:14
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Replying To Pikeman96: "So long as you didn't even think about putting an U21 match on during Electric Picnic weekend! :D
But seriously, then you'd probably have even more managers giving out about what Skippy Ruth was giving out about this week.
Say a club wins a senior hurling semi-final, and the senior final is fixed for a fortnight later. The week in between is one of the new 'gap weeks' that's supposed to be for U21. The club is still in the U21 championship, and is fixed to play that weekend. An U21 player who also lines out with the seniors gets injured in that match, and then you're back to the Skippy square one...." I agree with what beno says below but what you say about managers complaining if a player gets injured proves the point. I don't know of any manager who was a fringe player in underage, gave up and is now a manager, so how could they every understand the mindset of that player. Injuries are part of the game and training, if the player got injured in the semi final and was out for the final that is ok but to get injured in a u21 game its not ok, it shows that the manager doesn't care about player retention or the u21 grade. I have known some of these kids who all they want to do is continue playing with their mates but the decision is made for them. If clubs think its more important to keep their star u21s protected then it gives other players a chance to play but I have a feeling if you ask the U21 players they would want to play. Clubs complain about not having players but they keep supporting policies that cause the problem in the first place.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1904 - 15/12/2024 10:26:45
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Quite simply there are too many matches.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 742 - 15/12/2024 11:18:05
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Replying To beano: "I find it mad how we could play out all these championships back in the day, not even too long ago, and it was accepted that you might be missing a lad or two, or could have a few playing two games in a short timeframe, but you got on with it. And that was when there wasn't a split season. Going to a festival/travelling is a privilege and shouldn't be justifiable means to not fix games." In fairness format was different back then. It was knockout with a back door for first round losers so some teams only played 2-3 games a year and only took 5-6 games to win the championship. Then it went to 4 groups of 4 where it took 6 rounds to complete. Now with groups of 6 it has taken 8 or even this year 9 rounds to complete. But I do remember u21 championship been held up for a lad on the subs of the county team and the final wasnt played for months.
If we have smaller groups or straight knockout, people complain teams don't get enough games. If we have larger groups like groups of 6 people complain there's too many games. Can't please everyone
camánouttathat (Wexford) - Posts: 60 - 15/12/2024 20:13:52
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I went to the Rathnure / TAD game on Saturday. Not sure what to think - I was half shocked coming out trying to understand what had just occurred. The sending off at the throw in was just bizzare. I've since looked back at it over and over and it is very difficult to see the contact but to say it was intentional or sending off offence is crazy. To rub salt in the wound then the referee allowed the injured player stay on the field and fire over the free when the rules clearly state if you get attention you are required to leave the field of play.
Second red card I don't know what happened - it may have been a stray elbow. Linesman seems to have called it or maybe he thought the contact caused both TAD players to collide with each other.
Third red card was very harsh - 20 seconds left in normal time and the guy will now miss an all-ireland final. There wasn't a dirty stroke in the game. It was ruined by a very very poor referee.
To their credit Rathnure battled hard to the end - and i do think 15/15 they would have won the game. Even 14/15 they were getting to grips with TAD. They dropped 3 balls just short in the second half and missed two very scorable frees in the first half. Had those 5 points gone over it would have been a very different game. TAD to their credit are a very good team. They got some super scores and outscored Rathnure by 6 points to 1 in the second quarter of the first half. This was the difference i thought.
Rathnure will match any team in senior next year based on their performances in 2024
MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 164 - 16/12/2024 09:22:14
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Replying To MyOhMi: "I went to the Rathnure / TAD game on Saturday. Not sure what to think - I was half shocked coming out trying to understand what had just occurred. The sending off at the throw in was just bizzare. I've since looked back at it over and over and it is very difficult to see the contact but to say it was intentional or sending off offence is crazy. To rub salt in the wound then the referee allowed the injured player stay on the field and fire over the free when the rules clearly state if you get attention you are required to leave the field of play.
Second red card I don't know what happened - it may have been a stray elbow. Linesman seems to have called it or maybe he thought the contact caused both TAD players to collide with each other.
Third red card was very harsh - 20 seconds left in normal time and the guy will now miss an all-ireland final. There wasn't a dirty stroke in the game. It was ruined by a very very poor referee.
To their credit Rathnure battled hard to the end - and i do think 15/15 they would have won the game. Even 14/15 they were getting to grips with TAD. They dropped 3 balls just short in the second half and missed two very scorable frees in the first half. Had those 5 points gone over it would have been a very different game. TAD to their credit are a very good team. They got some super scores and outscored Rathnure by 6 points to 1 in the second quarter of the first half. This was the difference i thought.
Rathnure will match any team in senior next year based on their performances in 2024" I've looked at all three incidents many times, and while I'd sometimes give the benefit of the doubt to the referee in such cases (tough job, has to make a decision based on what he saw in a split second, etc.), it's hard to see a straight red card offence in any of them.
You're right too about how that TAD player at the throw-in should have been made leave the field, instead of being allowed to stay on and take the free. His helmet was off while he received attention, so he should have been out of action until the next break in play.
I do think that sometimes teams are too quick to blame the referee for a defeat, but in fairness, it's easy to see why Rathnure are mightily annoyed with this one.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2648 - 16/12/2024 13:45:56
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Replying To Pikeman96: "I've looked at all three incidents many times, and while I'd sometimes give the benefit of the doubt to the referee in such cases (tough job, has to make a decision based on what he saw in a split second, etc.), it's hard to see a straight red card offence in any of them.
You're right too about how that TAD player at the throw-in should have been made leave the field, instead of being allowed to stay on and take the free. His helmet was off while he received attention, so he should have been out of action until the next break in play.
I do think that sometimes teams are too quick to blame the referee for a defeat, but in fairness, it's easy to see why Rathnure are mightily annoyed with this one." Fairly scathing report about the referee in todays New Ross Standard on the game from Dean Goodison - full of praise for Rathnure. According to him the refs accessor was in the press box.
MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 164 - 18/12/2024 09:38:37
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I'm the same as everyone else here thought rathnure were very harshly treated,I've seen the red card incidents dozens of times and still can't make out what the officials saw on the day,very good showing by rathnure none the less pity they didn't get too an all ireland.
Ryanworld (Wexford) - Posts: 11 - 18/12/2024 12:19:01
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