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Replying To zinny: " Replying To Pikeman96: "I notice that the statement from Wexford GAA includes this bit:
Furthermore, during the course of extra time, there was no evidence of any score being cancelled or disallowed by the referee and/or his officials.
Crossing the flags is supposed to happen if a "point" is being disallowed, same as a goal. So I'm taking it to mean that the video didn't show flags being crossed. Which then means that if the referee says he overruled a "point", but he didn't tell the umpires to cross the flags to signify this, he's in a way saying "I didn't perform my duties properly".
No idea how that stuff from the referee ended up with that Sports News Ireland Twitter account, but I believe there are a couple of Wexford lads involved with Sports News Ireland. They'd also be involved with GAA, but wouldn't be County Board officers or members of the CCC. Possible that they got the thing directly from the referee, because I don't see who else would have it.
Haven't heard anything about how other refs feel about the whole thing." The referee has the power to determine if it was a point or not and he does not need to consult with the umpires. The crossing of the flags relate to the umpires and their duties in respect to their decisions. There is a disconnect in the rules - the referee has the duty to keep the score, the power to overrule the umpire but in doing that he is not obliged to consult with the umpire or tell them to overrule their decision and therefore cross the flags. Of course that may be what should be intended but its not what is written"
Likewise if they don't give a point and the referee overrules them he instructs them to put up a flag. They then wave it.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13556 - 15/10/2024 17:07:43
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"...the referee has the duty to keep the score, the power to overrule the umpire but in doing that he is not obliged to consult with the umpire or tell them to overrule their decision and therefore cross the flags. Of course that may be what should be intended but its not what is written"
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1887 - 15/10/2024 16:16:47 2575108
That's ridiculous. A referee can overall a score without telling anyone? So no one, umpires, scoreboard attendants, the crowd, know what the real score is, except for the the referee.
Another point. There would have been several minutes between the end of extra-time and the start of the penalties. Did anyone, in that time, approach the referee and tell him that he'd got the score wrong?
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2645 - 15/10/2024 19:54:52
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To zinny: "[quote=Pikeman96: "I notice that the statement from Wexford GAA includes this bit:
Furthermore, during the course of extra time, there was no evidence of any score being cancelled or disallowed by the referee and/or his officials.
Crossing the flags is supposed to happen if a "point" is being disallowed, same as a goal. So I'm taking it to mean that the video didn't show flags being crossed. Which then means that if the referee says he overruled a "point", but he didn't tell the umpires to cross the flags to signify this, he's in a way saying "I didn't perform my duties properly".
No idea how that stuff from the referee ended up with that Sports News Ireland Twitter account, but I believe there are a couple of Wexford lads involved with Sports News Ireland. They'd also be involved with GAA, but wouldn't be County Board officers or members of the CCC. Possible that they got the thing directly from the referee, because I don't see who else would have it.
Haven't heard anything about how other refs feel about the whole thing." The referee has the power to determine if it was a point or not and he does not need to consult with the umpires. The crossing of the flags relate to the umpires and their duties in respect to their decisions. There is a disconnect in the rules - the referee has the duty to keep the score, the power to overrule the umpire but in doing that he is not obliged to consult with the umpire or tell them to overrule their decision and therefore cross the flags. Of course that may be what should be intended but its not what is written"
Likewise if they don't give a point and the referee overrules them he instructs them to put up a flag. They then wave it."]Is this the first time that a GAA match result was over turned?
We have a lots of examples of points waved wide and balls that crossed the goal line not given...........even at intercounty level with lots of different camera angles.
Remember Waterford's Austin Gleeson goal line catch......that decision put Waterford out of the championship.
WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 445 - 15/10/2024 21:06:35
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Replying To Viking66: "If an umpire puts up a flag and the referee over rules him, the 2 umpires have to stand under the bar and cross their flags." Your meant to have the lines on the pitch marked aswell....
WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 445 - 15/10/2024 21:10:19
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: ""...the referee has the duty to keep the score, the power to overrule the umpire but in doing that he is not obliged to consult with the umpire or tell them to overrule their decision and therefore cross the flags. Of course that may be what should be intended but its not what is written"
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1887 - 15/10/2024 16:16:47 2575108
That's ridiculous. A referee can overall a score without telling anyone? So no one, umpires, scoreboard attendants, the crowd, know what the real score is, except for the the referee.
Another point. There would have been several minutes between the end of extra-time and the start of the penalties. Did anyone, in that time, approach the referee and tell him that he'd got the score wrong?" Yes, one of the linesmen.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 708 - 15/10/2024 22:05:14
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Replying To Viking66: "If an umpire puts up a flag and the referee over rules him, the 2 umpires have to stand under the bar and cross their flags." I've only ever seen this used to disallow a goal from a square ball..........its obvious a goal was scored and its been disallowed.
Anytime a referee would over rule an umpire he would simply ask the umpire to signal for a wide......as in this case he is not disallowing a score, he's saying that it wasn't a score in the first place as it was wide.
The rule states: A decision to disallow a score by crossing the flags at the centre of the scoring space.
WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 445 - 15/10/2024 22:12:51
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Replying To WEX98: "I've only ever seen this used to disallow a goal from a square ball..........its obvious a goal was scored and its been disallowed.
Anytime a referee would over rule an umpire he would simply ask the umpire to signal for a wide......as in this case he is not disallowing a score, he's saying that it wasn't a score in the first place as it was wide.
The rule states: A decision to disallow a score by crossing the flags at the centre of the scoring space." He didn't do either in this case. No crossed flags. No signal wide from the umpires.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13556 - 16/10/2024 08:02:41
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Replying To WEX98: "I've only ever seen this used to disallow a goal from a square ball..........its obvious a goal was scored and its been disallowed.
Anytime a referee would over rule an umpire he would simply ask the umpire to signal for a wide......as in this case he is not disallowing a score, he's saying that it wasn't a score in the first place as it was wide.
The rule states: A decision to disallow a score by crossing the flags at the centre of the scoring space." He didn't indicate it was wide himself either.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13556 - 16/10/2024 08:03:57
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I see we are now making u-16's warm up in car parks using car lights as floodlights before co finals? This Co Board is at rock bottom.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 708 - 16/10/2024 08:58:09
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Replying To WEX98: "I've only ever seen this used to disallow a goal from a square ball..........its obvious a goal was scored and its been disallowed.
Anytime a referee would over rule an umpire he would simply ask the umpire to signal for a wide......as in this case he is not disallowing a score, he's saying that it wasn't a score in the first place as it was wide.
The rule states: A decision to disallow a score by crossing the flags at the centre of the scoring space." With regard to your last line - am not sure that's actually a rule. It's more a line from a guidance documents for match officials.
As Zinny points out, there seems to be disconnect between what's written in the rules, and what's actually intended to happen.
To me, the crossing the flags thing applies when an umpire has already waved a green or white flag for a "score", but then the referee overrules that. The referee should then instruct the umpires to cross the flags, to make it clear to everybody that he's not awarding the "score" at all.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2535 - 16/10/2024 09:15:54
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