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Whatever about the positives and negatives around the new format what stands out for me is the lack of Hurling games from next week onwards .
If you finish top 2 in your Hurling group and you won't play a Hurling game for 5 weeks and in that time you will play 3 football games unless you end up 5th in the football or don't play football at all..
Rathnure of course will have that break but no football to worry about. Surely a huge advantage to them.
Paull (Wexford) - Posts: 182 - 29/08/2024 11:33:16
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Replying To Pikeman96: "A thought occurs to me this morning.
Going into Round 5, just about all the talk here is about formats, rather than actual matches, predictions, and permutations. Is that a sign in itself that generally speaking, the Round 5 results aren't as meaningful as they used to be?" Ah no. But the link I put up has all the permutations!
As regards predictions I'll give it a stab-
-Annes will beat Barntown but it will be close.
-Gorey will beat Crossabeg. Crossabeg will have one eye on the 5th/6th playoff coming up next. Still think they will want to go out on a high to get some confidence going into that preliminary game, so I expect it to be closer than most people I know do.
-Likewise I think Oulart will put it up to Ferns, but expect Ferns to win.
-Martins will beat Rapps
-Shels Oylegate will be a draw, and I never usually predict draws!
-I think Cloughbawn will beat the Harriers in a very close game. Maybe by just a point.
-Rathnure will beat Bunclody, but not thrash them.
-Fethard will beat the Rocks narrowly in a low scoring game.
-Askamore will beat Horeswood by a few. Maybe 6.
-Craanford will beat Gusserane in a thriller, but only by 1 or 2. Decent scores put up by both sides!
-Taghmon will win by 1 in a game that people who weren't there will think was a football game on account of the score. Hopefully!!!
-Jimmy's will bully the Alley and win by 6.
What do you think yourself Pikeman? Lads?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 29/08/2024 11:37:03
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Okay, here's my stab at things:
- St. Anne's will beat Glynn-Barntown and it won't be as close as VIking predicts
- Naomh Éanna will beat Crossabeg-Ballymurn fairly comfortably. Maybe by 10 points or more.
- Ferns will beat Oulart, but might take them until the second half to get properly on top in the game.
- St. Martin's will beat Rapps fairly comfortably.
- Shels to win v Oylegate, maybe by four or five.
- Going against Viking with the next one, and predicting Harriers to beat Cloughbawn, But agree it will be close.
- Agree Rathnure to beat Bunclody, but in probably Rathnure's closest game yet.
- Fethard to beat Tara Rocks by a little more than 'narrowly', but not a huge amount. Maybe five or six points.
- A six-point margin for Askamore over Horeswood seems about right.
- Craanford to beat Gusserane in a close game.
- Blackwater and Taghmon to be a draw because there'll probably be one somewhere and I haven't predicted one yet!
- Again going against Viking with the last one, as think Buffers Alley will beat St. James'.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2453 - 29/08/2024 12:30:50
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Replying To Paull: "Whatever about the positives and negatives around the new format what stands out for me is the lack of Hurling games from next week onwards .
If you finish top 2 in your Hurling group and you won't play a Hurling game for 5 weeks and in that time you will play 3 football games unless you end up 5th in the football or don't play football at all..
Rathnure of course will have that break but no football to worry about. Surely a huge advantage to them." Hard to know as the team they play in the QF will have played a game the weekend before and given other counties are almost done or every week the championship is on, getting practice games will be tough. That PQF game in will make up for a lot of training sessions.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1859 - 29/08/2024 19:51:21
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Replying To Paull: "Whatever about the positives and negatives around the new format what stands out for me is the lack of Hurling games from next week onwards .
If you finish top 2 in your Hurling group and you won't play a Hurling game for 5 weeks and in that time you will play 3 football games unless you end up 5th in the football or don't play football at all..
Rathnure of course will have that break but no football to worry about. Surely a huge advantage to them." Is 5 weeks not a bit long?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 29/08/2024 23:54:13
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "There aren't 16 good enough teams to compete at Senior level, 8 would be too small a number, and any other number than 12 would be very difficult to organise
I have two different ideas:
(a) Two groups of 6; 1st goes straight through to the SFs; 2nd plays 3rd in the other group and vice-versa in the QFs; 4th and 5th are done for the year; 6th plays off in the relegation final
Rationale here is that coming 1st gives you a bye straight to the SFs (A bit like winning Leinster puts you in an AISF) and that whoever comes 4th probably lost more in the group stages than they won so they don't really deserve to be in the knock-out stages
(b) Top 6 teams in Senior A and next 6 teams in Senior B; Top two in Senior A go straight to the SFs; 3rd and 4th in Senior A play 1st and 2nd in Senior B; 5th and 6th in Senior B play off in the relegation final
Whoever comes 6th in Senior A gets "relegated" to Senior B the next year and whoever comes 1st in Senior B gets "promoted" to Senior B the next year
Can still win the Championship from Senior B although can get relegated to Intermediate from Senior B whereas you can't in Senior A" Both of these ideas are excellent and better than the old system and what we have at the moment.
wexfordwin (Wexford) - Posts: 173 - 30/08/2024 07:22:23
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One thing I've learned from reading this thread is I've even more sympathy for our co board and others in trying to get proposals and ideas across in Wexford.
I mean getting our structures right is fundamental to our success and we have clubs taking it so seriously that they are sending lads in to vote with the remit of "shur whatever ye think yourself on the night there Pat!"
It seems people are happy enough to have lads hurling away in low pressure games a little above all county league in terms of real importance and wonder then how we struggle sometimes when the pressure comes on in inter County games, oh and while we are at it can we get a couple of weekends off to go on the lash at a music festival and other events because changing the entire GAA calendar to facilitate lads being able to plan breaks away etc isn't enough by all accounts!!
I do genuinely wonder how serious we are in wanting to compete in the county sometimes if I'm being honest.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1401 - 30/08/2024 09:54:59
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Replying To tearintom: "One thing I've learned from reading this thread is I've even more sympathy for our co board and others in trying to get proposals and ideas across in Wexford.
I mean getting our structures right is fundamental to our success and we have clubs taking it so seriously that they are sending lads in to vote with the remit of "shur whatever ye think yourself on the night there Pat!"
It seems people are happy enough to have lads hurling away in low pressure games a little above all county league in terms of real importance and wonder then how we struggle sometimes when the pressure comes on in inter County games, oh and while we are at it can we get a couple of weekends off to go on the lash at a music festival and other events because changing the entire GAA calendar to facilitate lads being able to plan breaks away etc isn't enough by all accounts!!
I do genuinely wonder how serious we are in wanting to compete in the county sometimes if I'm being honest." That's not the case at all Tom. The point is this format has nearly the same issues as the last one. Our club didn't send me in to "make my mind up on the night". In our lengthy discussions about the format proposals we felt that none of them would improve the standard of club hurling in the county. The core issues with club hurling in the county have very little, if anything, to do with the format or structure. These are complete red herrings as regards the standard of club hurling and it's knock on effect on our county teams.
We knew in advance that the HAC would be making a presentation. I was told told to listen carefully to it. Then decide on the format/structure to vote for. From our own point of view with the lads away we didn't think we would be challenging for promotion to Senior. We also didn't know we would have the injuries we have had so far this year. So from our own point of view we didn't feel strongly that any of the formats or structures would benefit or hinder our clubs chances either way.
So we made the decision we made. Being as the format/structure was likely to be irrelevant to our club, or our county Senior hurlers, we would listen to what our county's hurling experts, the HAC, had to say, and then vote accordingly.
Just out of interest why did your own club decide what way to vote before listening to the HAC presentation? Did you feel you were better qualified than they are? Or did you, as is more likely, vote purely for what was best for your club?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 30/08/2024 10:52:35
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Lads need time off too to unwind .
For gods sake only for the fleadh a lad playing both codes for a club not in top 2 in hurling could potentially play 16weeks In a row this year. Taking into account the matches on a bank hol Monday just so as we could showcase our traditional game or make more money thiught that was a very poor decision towards players
. Not taking into account county players and burden thry already had inc u20
Add in u21 4 more games . 20 games in 16 weeks
I d ask this very important question can any player keep that up year after year or.want to .
Where if he does tale a break for holiday, wedding, stag party,electric picnic concert , could potentially put his team under pressure the guilt etc that comes with that plus pressure from paid managers.
Take even Just going out with his mates who may not be players . Strain on his partner could put serious pressure on a relationship .
In a time where the worry of financial pressures college puts more strain on their ever increasing load .
And then we have people coming on here saying more games, laughing at the fact people look for weekend off for to attend electric picnic .
Ye must ve been some dedicated and serious players in your day . And some craic to be out with.
For God sake will ye think of the impact it will have on the playing pool going forward if we are going to flog players to this extent .
It's an amateur game but too many using it to make a living at present. Too much focus on success it's taking the enjoyment out of it for too many.
That includes players mostly but also the mentors over lesser teams diwn the divisions and supporters as well as club volunteers.
The increasing financial burden on clubs there is very little time nowadays to sit watch and enjoy .
Fundraising ,training courses ,recruitment , admin u name it the time it takes is ever increasing.
The burnout factor is not just for players.
A club manager non paid gives up as much if not more than players .
Can we sustain this level of commitment going forward
Already clubs find it increasingly hard to fill roles in clubs form players mentors to committees and executive committees
So before we criticise anyone for looking for a break or two during championship . Think of the commitment needed and take into account the sustainability. I have lads that play and all are committed and I m now looking and asking are they missing out on life . The balance is not right at present.
So when we are trying come up with solutions can we take some if not all the above factors into account xnd come up with a rational plan that is sustainable
FOR ALL .
Don't dismiss players lives . Younger players don't have the benefit of hindsight they trust us to do what's best for them, not for us, the county board ,or the paid mercenaries or paying public .
Remember what you pay to attend games none goes to players directly we don't own them .
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 261 - 30/08/2024 11:19:48
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Replying To Formertownie: "Lads need time off too to unwind .
For gods sake only for the fleadh a lad playing both codes for a club not in top 2 in hurling could potentially play 16weeks In a row this year. Taking into account the matches on a bank hol Monday just so as we could showcase our traditional game or make more money thiught that was a very poor decision towards players
. Not taking into account county players and burden thry already had inc u20
Add in u21 4 more games . 20 games in 16 weeks
I d ask this very important question can any player keep that up year after year or.want to .
Where if he does tale a break for holiday, wedding, stag party,electric picnic concert , could potentially put his team under pressure the guilt etc that comes with that plus pressure from paid managers.
Take even Just going out with his mates who may not be players . Strain on his partner could put serious pressure on a relationship .
In a time where the worry of financial pressures college puts more strain on their ever increasing load .
And then we have people coming on here saying more games, laughing at the fact people look for weekend off for to attend electric picnic .
Ye must ve been some dedicated and serious players in your day . And some craic to be out with.
For God sake will ye think of the impact it will have on the playing pool going forward if we are going to flog players to this extent .
It's an amateur game but too many using it to make a living at present. Too much focus on success it's taking the enjoyment out of it for too many.
That includes players mostly but also the mentors over lesser teams diwn the divisions and supporters as well as club volunteers.
The increasing financial burden on clubs there is very little time nowadays to sit watch and enjoy .
Fundraising ,training courses ,recruitment , admin u name it the time it takes is ever increasing.
The burnout factor is not just for players.
A club manager non paid gives up as much if not more than players .
Can we sustain this level of commitment going forward
Already clubs find it increasingly hard to fill roles in clubs form players mentors to committees and executive committees
So before we criticise anyone for looking for a break or two during championship . Think of the commitment needed and take into account the sustainability. I have lads that play and all are committed and I m now looking and asking are they missing out on life . The balance is not right at present.
So when we are trying come up with solutions can we take some if not all the above factors into account xnd come up with a rational plan that is sustainable
FOR ALL .
Don't dismiss players lives . Younger players don't have the benefit of hindsight they trust us to do what's best for them, not for us, the county board ,or the paid mercenaries or paying public .
Remember what you pay to attend games none goes to players directly we don't own them ." Thats the best and most common sense post this page has seen.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 682 - 30/08/2024 11:56:39
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Replying To Formertownie: "Lads need time off too to unwind .
For gods sake only for the fleadh a lad playing both codes for a club not in top 2 in hurling could potentially play 16weeks In a row this year. Taking into account the matches on a bank hol Monday just so as we could showcase our traditional game or make more money thiught that was a very poor decision towards players
. Not taking into account county players and burden thry already had inc u20
Add in u21 4 more games . 20 games in 16 weeks
I d ask this very important question can any player keep that up year after year or.want to .
Where if he does tale a break for holiday, wedding, stag party,electric picnic concert , could potentially put his team under pressure the guilt etc that comes with that plus pressure from paid managers.
Take even Just going out with his mates who may not be players . Strain on his partner could put serious pressure on a relationship .
In a time where the worry of financial pressures college puts more strain on their ever increasing load .
And then we have people coming on here saying more games, laughing at the fact people look for weekend off for to attend electric picnic .
Ye must ve been some dedicated and serious players in your day . And some craic to be out with.
For God sake will ye think of the impact it will have on the playing pool going forward if we are going to flog players to this extent .
It's an amateur game but too many using it to make a living at present. Too much focus on success it's taking the enjoyment out of it for too many.
That includes players mostly but also the mentors over lesser teams diwn the divisions and supporters as well as club volunteers.
The increasing financial burden on clubs there is very little time nowadays to sit watch and enjoy .
Fundraising ,training courses ,recruitment , admin u name it the time it takes is ever increasing.
The burnout factor is not just for players.
A club manager non paid gives up as much if not more than players .
Can we sustain this level of commitment going forward
Already clubs find it increasingly hard to fill roles in clubs form players mentors to committees and executive committees
So before we criticise anyone for looking for a break or two during championship . Think of the commitment needed and take into account the sustainability. I have lads that play and all are committed and I m now looking and asking are they missing out on life . The balance is not right at present.
So when we are trying come up with solutions can we take some if not all the above factors into account xnd come up with a rational plan that is sustainable
FOR ALL .
Don't dismiss players lives . Younger players don't have the benefit of hindsight they trust us to do what's best for them, not for us, the county board ,or the paid mercenaries or paying public .
Remember what you pay to attend games none goes to players directly we don't own them ." Don't disagree with much of what you say to be honest.
But then why when there's discussions about changing formats some of which mean having less games we hear "oh no no, can't have less games, players wnat games!"
So which is ist?
Play more games and it's oh players are being flogged. OK less games, oh we can't have that either!
And then this year we increased the amount of games and made them mean less piling on more time pressure etc, and people are still saying that's good. After this weekend there will have been 150 championship games throughout the county and every single team still in the championship.
Personally speaking I'd be all on for less games, of which more of them actually have something riding on the result with more pressure and more breaks for club players.
But guarantee that would be and will be dismissed straight away because players want more games!
Can't have it every way,
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1401 - 30/08/2024 13:26:35
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Replying To countyman2022: "Thats the best and most common sense post this page has seen." While at the same time, it shows up so many issues -
- People want groups of six in our club championships, and formats that take between 16 and 18 rounds of games. Any vote in recent years on smaller groups (four groups of three, or three groups of four) has been overwhelmingly shot down.
- People want our championships finished before the Leinster club championships start, even if there's only the same number of weekends available as there are rounds of games to be played.
- People want free weekends but don't want the midweek games you'd then have to play at other times in order to create free weekends.
- People want the club U21 championships to run, but don't want to have to play any of the games midweek during the summer, and don't want to wait until November for them to start either.
Anyway, back to what formertownie said -
I wouldn't criticise anybody for wanting a break during it all. I'm involved in certain roles myself that means it's fairly full on for me too, for up to 16 or 18 weeks. I thought the free weekend for the Fleadh was brilliant. I didn't even go anywhere near the Fleadh - it was great to just be able to do "normal" stuff!
What I would criticise though are people who don't accept that breaks are not possible so long as clubs continue to vote for groups of six, up to four knock-out rounds, everything finished in time for Leinster, and U21 club championships as well. Those people are simply refusing to accept reality.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2453 - 30/08/2024 13:43:42
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Replying To Pikeman96: "While at the same time, it shows up so many issues -
- People want groups of six in our club championships, and formats that take between 16 and 18 rounds of games. Any vote in recent years on smaller groups (four groups of three, or three groups of four) has been overwhelmingly shot down.
- People want our championships finished before the Leinster club championships start, even if there's only the same number of weekends available as there are rounds of games to be played.
- People want free weekends but don't want the midweek games you'd then have to play at other times in order to create free weekends.
- People want the club U21 championships to run, but don't want to have to play any of the games midweek during the summer, and don't want to wait until November for them to start either.
Anyway, back to what formertownie said -
I wouldn't criticise anybody for wanting a break during it all. I'm involved in certain roles myself that means it's fairly full on for me too, for up to 16 or 18 weeks. I thought the free weekend for the Fleadh was brilliant. I didn't even go anywhere near the Fleadh - it was great to just be able to do "normal" stuff!
What I would criticise though are people who don't accept that breaks are not possible so long as clubs continue to vote for groups of six, up to four knock-out rounds, everything finished in time for Leinster, and U21 club championships as well. Those people are simply refusing to accept reality." Pretty much agree with every word above.
Like I said, can't have it every way.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1401 - 30/08/2024 14:14:41
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Replying To Formertownie: "Lads need time off too to unwind .
For gods sake only for the fleadh a lad playing both codes for a club not in top 2 in hurling could potentially play 16weeks In a row this year. Taking into account the matches on a bank hol Monday just so as we could showcase our traditional game or make more money thiught that was a very poor decision towards players
. Not taking into account county players and burden thry already had inc u20
Add in u21 4 more games . 20 games in 16 weeks
I d ask this very important question can any player keep that up year after year or.want to .
Where if he does tale a break for holiday, wedding, stag party,electric picnic concert , could potentially put his team under pressure the guilt etc that comes with that plus pressure from paid managers.
Take even Just going out with his mates who may not be players . Strain on his partner could put serious pressure on a relationship .
In a time where the worry of financial pressures college puts more strain on their ever increasing load .
And then we have people coming on here saying more games, laughing at the fact people look for weekend off for to attend electric picnic .
Ye must ve been some dedicated and serious players in your day . And some craic to be out with.
For God sake will ye think of the impact it will have on the playing pool going forward if we are going to flog players to this extent .
It's an amateur game but too many using it to make a living at present. Too much focus on success it's taking the enjoyment out of it for too many.
That includes players mostly but also the mentors over lesser teams diwn the divisions and supporters as well as club volunteers.
The increasing financial burden on clubs there is very little time nowadays to sit watch and enjoy .
Fundraising ,training courses ,recruitment , admin u name it the time it takes is ever increasing.
The burnout factor is not just for players.
A club manager non paid gives up as much if not more than players .
Can we sustain this level of commitment going forward
Already clubs find it increasingly hard to fill roles in clubs form players mentors to committees and executive committees
So before we criticise anyone for looking for a break or two during championship . Think of the commitment needed and take into account the sustainability. I have lads that play and all are committed and I m now looking and asking are they missing out on life . The balance is not right at present.
So when we are trying come up with solutions can we take some if not all the above factors into account xnd come up with a rational plan that is sustainable
FOR ALL .
Don't dismiss players lives . Younger players don't have the benefit of hindsight they trust us to do what's best for them, not for us, the county board ,or the paid mercenaries or paying public .
Remember what you pay to attend games none goes to players directly we don't own them ." Spot on. It's greed from supporters, and to a lesser extent administrators, that's driving all this. Too many intercounty games. Too many club games.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 30/08/2024 14:40:16
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Replying To tearintom: "Pretty much agree with every word above.
Like I said, can't have it every way." And likewise, I agree with yours!
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2453 - 30/08/2024 14:46:45
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Predictions for the week ahead:
Shels v Oylegate: Believe Shels were missing players the last day and expect them to win by 3
Harriers v Cloughbawn: Think Cloughbawn have a chance here but depends how they stop Chin. A Draw
St Martins v Rapps: Martins easily as Rapps are guaranteed bottom.
Anne's v Glynn Barntown: GB will have one eye on the prelim but Anne's to win by 4
Gorey v Crossabeg: Gorey by 7 as Crossabeg guaranteed bottom.
Oulart v Ferns: Ferns to win by 5 as Oulart will be lookin towards prelim aswell.
WexMurph (Wexford) - Posts: 215 - 30/08/2024 15:45:47
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Replying To Viking66: "That's not the case at all Tom. The point is this format has nearly the same issues as the last one. Our club didn't send me in to "make my mind up on the night". In our lengthy discussions about the format proposals we felt that none of them would improve the standard of club hurling in the county. The core issues with club hurling in the county have very little, if anything, to do with the format or structure. These are complete red herrings as regards the standard of club hurling and it's knock on effect on our county teams.
We knew in advance that the HAC would be making a presentation. I was told told to listen carefully to it. Then decide on the format/structure to vote for. From our own point of view with the lads away we didn't think we would be challenging for promotion to Senior. We also didn't know we would have the injuries we have had so far this year. So from our own point of view we didn't feel strongly that any of the formats or structures would benefit or hinder our clubs chances either way.
So we made the decision we made. Being as the format/structure was likely to be irrelevant to our club, or our county Senior hurlers, we would listen to what our county's hurling experts, the HAC, had to say, and then vote accordingly.
Just out of interest why did your own club decide what way to vote before listening to the HAC presentation? Did you feel you were better qualified than they are? Or did you, as is more likely, vote purely for what was best for your club?" Just going back to this one. You first claim:
Our club didn't send me in to "make my mind up on the night"
But later in the same post, you say:
I was told told to listen carefully to it. Then decide on the format/structure to vote for
And in your post back on page 11, you say:
I got told to listen to the presentation, and arguments for and against, and make up my mind based on this
How can you claim that your club didn't send you in to decide on the night?????
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2453 - 30/08/2024 16:09:10
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My thoughts are with the players and club men .
And the people who make the choices for them .
I got annoyed with people scoffing at young players wanting to have some down time mid season to live their youth all yo soon it's gone as well we know.
Short term gain as opposed to long term sustainability I think thats the choice . I m not saying I know the answers or how to convince others . But I will try come up with suggestions.
I just think we.are driving on and not seeing bigger picture. Not so bad if ur just one code but the dual player is getting flogged .
Maybe that's the underlying agenda . Make ur choice boys. It's gone that way at inter County and now with club teams training like inter County are they going to be forced to choose .
It will be a sad day for gaa in wexford if the club player has to choose one over the other for their playing career
I wonder if more choose football would the mindset change.
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 261 - 30/08/2024 18:10:04
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Just going back to this one. You first claim:
Our club didn't send me in to "make my mind up on the night"
But later in the same post, you say:
I was told told to listen carefully to it. Then decide on the format/structure to vote for
And in your post back on page 11, you say:
I got told to listen to the presentation, and arguments for and against, and make up my mind based on this
How can you claim that your club didn't send you in to decide on the night?????" I'm not claiming that the club didn't send me in to make my mind up on the night. I'm disagreeing with the inference from you and others that we didn't consider all the proposals at some length. "Ah sure we'll just let Paddy decide" or similar quotes are just not the case at all.
I've explained to you before the format/structure we proposed a couple of years ago. As you said yourself in a previous post any proposal with less games/teams per group gets summarily shot down by a large majority.
As regards all the 6 team group proposals, we didn't feel that any of them are likely to raise the standard of club hurling, or improve the standard of club hurlers with a view to aiding the county team. So what we decided was to listen to Adrian Fenlons presentation and vote, or even not vote at all, based on that. Which is completely different to what you and others keep claiming or implying, which is that our club didn't take the whole thing seriously, that we couldnt be bothered, or didn't want the county team to be successful.
Bottom line still is for me that it's a red herring. Whatever format or structure we adopt is not going to make the blindest bit of difference to our intercounty fortunes. And like I've been consistently saying on this thread for a number of years there are too many games, which gives rise to too many meaningless ones. And that goes for club and intercounty.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 31/08/2024 07:03:39
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Just going back to this one. You first claim:
Our club didn't send me in to "make my mind up on the night"
But later in the same post, you say:
I was told told to listen carefully to it. Then decide on the format/structure to vote for
And in your post back on page 11, you say:
I got told to listen to the presentation, and arguments for and against, and make up my mind based on this
How can you claim that your club didn't send you in to decide on the night?????" Maybe I phrased that first quote badly and left out an important word. "Our club didn't JUST send me in to make my mind up on the night" is what I meant by that first line.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 31/08/2024 07:44:45
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