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Replying To Formertownie: "Be very hard for cccc and co board to ignore it . Social media is powerful persuader to look but possibly hands are tied.
Depends on if it can be used bearing in mind so many incidents get missed or overlooked but are then brought to fore by video ,not every game is videoed or
video made available so would seem unfair if every game is nt scrutinised forensically. Would they be opening a huge can of worms by acting on one incident.
What he did was wrong for sure but remains to be seen if it will or can be revisited.
Can understand how it was missed as ref and umpires following the flight of the ball across the field . But they could see the 2 slaps as happened whilst ball was there reason fir the yellow first chop down was very dangerous don't fight Rory got 2nd yellow v clare for similar slap to 2nd one .." It looked very blatent from where the camera angle was at. But as you say if the ball was gone that might be an explanation as to why the officials missed it.
I think it comes down to the referees report now. My understanding is that if there is no mention of it in the referees report then the CCCC can investigate the matter if they so wish. This would be different to the SD incidents in last years football final as the referee had dealt with those on the day.
bystanderbill (Wexford) - Posts: 31 - 26/08/2024 13:35:08
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Some real exciting finishes to a group in senior and intermediate. In Senior Group 4, the top 4 are decided, its just the order, I'd fancy Annes 1st, then Gorey, then it will be Ferns and Glynn. Oulart and Ballymurn are going to finish 5th and 6th. Oulart will be playing the Rapps which is already decided as Oulart cant overtake Glynn on the head to head rule. Ballymurn opponents wil depend on results for group b, which is still wide open. Shels and Martins are through but could still finish down the table. A few of the permutations, shels could actually finish 4th, as the teams around them would beat them on the head to head.
Similar to Intermediate, one group looks already decided, you'd expect Rathnure to beat Bunclody, so they will come first, Bunclody 2nd, Askamore should defeat Horeswood and finish third while Tar Rocks and Fethard should be a close game, I'd give Fethard the nod to finish 4th, due to the fact that Tara Rocks/Kilanerin probably doing more football.
The other group like Senior, still wide open. Straight shoot out between James and the Alley for top spot. Expect James to come through that test, to top the group, then second would be Alley, Craanford are playing Gusserane, expect Craanford to win this after Gusseranes amazing collapse at the weekend. Taghmon and Blackwater should be close but give Blackwater the nod. Few other permutations here, four teams could finish on 4 if Taghmon and Gusserane win, then its a mini league, which Gusserane would come 3rd, Craanford 4th, Blackwater 5th and Taghmon 6th. Taghmon can still come 4th, if Craanford and they win, it would mean Craanford would be third, Taghmon 4th and Blackwater 5th with Gusserane last.
So still some exciting scenarios foe the final day.
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 423 - 26/08/2024 13:42:07
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Replying To bystanderbill: "It looked very blatent from where the camera angle was at. But as you say if the ball was gone that might be an explanation as to why the officials missed it.
I think it comes down to the referees report now. My understanding is that if there is no mention of it in the referees report then the CCCC can investigate the matter if they so wish. This would be different to the SD incidents in last years football final as the referee had dealt with those on the day." That's my understanding of it too. If the referee deals with something on the day, then it's over and done with, even if the referee was "wrong" in how he dealt with it. But if he doesn't deal with it at all, then it can be investigated and action taken all right.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2453 - 26/08/2024 14:30:59
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Replying To Formertownie: "Be very hard for cccc and co board to ignore it . Social media is powerful persuader to look but possibly hands are tied.
Depends on if it can be used bearing in mind so many incidents get missed or overlooked but are then brought to fore by video ,not every game is videoed or
video made available so would seem unfair if every game is nt scrutinised forensically. Would they be opening a huge can of worms by acting on one incident.
What he did was wrong for sure but remains to be seen if it will or can be revisited.
Can understand how it was missed as ref and umpires following the flight of the ball across the field . But they could see the 2 slaps as happened whilst ball was there reason fir the yellow first chop down was very dangerous don't fight Rory got 2nd yellow v clare for similar slap to 2nd one .." I don't think it would be opening a can of worms at all, I think it would a disgrace if they let an act like that go unpunished. Fair enough every game is not recorded but at least make the use of the video for the game.
I agree that it's easy enough to understand how the ref might have missed it as he would of been following the ball, so I would not expect it to be mentioned in his match report and would hope that action will be taken.
JT22 (Wexford) - Posts: 36 - 26/08/2024 15:07:08
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Did he deal with it by giving yellow to rapps player .
Same incident deemed harriers player nothing to deal with it. It would be hard to say either way definitively we are only guessing we ll just wait and see i doubt any sanction could be imposed within the proper guidelines. As the incident was dealt with on the day .8
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 261 - 26/08/2024 17:03:17
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Replying To Formertownie: "Did he deal with it by giving yellow to rapps player .
Same incident deemed harriers player nothing to deal with it. It would be hard to say either way definitively we are only guessing we ll just wait and see i doubt any sanction could be imposed within the proper guidelines. As the incident was dealt with on the day .8" I don't think anyone could argue that he dealt with it.
bystanderbill (Wexford) - Posts: 31 - 26/08/2024 17:31:02
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Replying To Formertownie: "Did he deal with it by giving yellow to rapps player .
Same incident deemed harriers player nothing to deal with it. It would be hard to say either way definitively we are only guessing we ll just wait and see i doubt any sanction could be imposed within the proper guidelines. As the incident was dealt with on the day .8" It will be interesting to see what happens. The whole country has seen it now. It's being talked about in every other county.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 26/08/2024 18:25:48
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Replying To bystanderbill: "I don't think anyone could argue that he dealt with it." Thars not what I m saying in hindsight he may well have done differently ie cards whatever colour for players involved But he dealt with the incident as he saw it or as was brought to his attention. Rightly or wrongly he dealt with it in real time . And was nt something that happened off the ball that went without notice on the day .
I m only guessing of course same as everyone else .
We can make arguments for and against all day it won't make a difference unless cccc or whoever has the right to do anything within their own rules which can be sjetcy or watery at best of times .
I m sure theyvwill want to do something about it the question is can they so it legitimately.
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 261 - 26/08/2024 19:36:55
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Anyone talking about games lacking intensity is talking through their rear, although I have only seen some of the games.
As a player, you have 6-10 proper hurling games all year. League is a joke, this is why you train and put in that effort. No player is going out there to give any less than 100%.
There was a lot of soul searching in my old dressing room after a recent loss. Players care a lot regardless of it being not knock-out. Because any loss knocks a team backwards and a loss can derail a year and never recover.
Anybody thinking you can just show up for the games, coast through and finish 6th and then switch it on and go anywhere does not know what they are talking about. That is a risky game that could get you relegated just as easily as making the quarter or semi finals.
Yes somebody might do it but it is fairly unlikely if you come up against a team flying and high on confidence.
I think people view club games against inter county games and think "the standard is brutal". But sure, if you go in to see Wexford FC after a Premier League match you would come to the same conclusion.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1777 - 27/08/2024 11:34:28
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Anyone talking about games lacking intensity is talking through their rear, although I have only seen some of the games.
As a player, you have 6-10 proper hurling games all year. League is a joke, this is why you train and put in that effort. No player is going out there to give any less than 100%.
There was a lot of soul searching in my old dressing room after a recent loss. Players care a lot regardless of it being not knock-out. Because any loss knocks a team backwards and a loss can derail a year and never recover.
Anybody thinking you can just show up for the games, coast through and finish 6th and then switch it on and go anywhere does not know what they are talking about. That is a risky game that could get you relegated just as easily as making the quarter or semi finals.
Yes somebody might do it but it is fairly unlikely if you come up against a team flying and high on confidence.
I think people view club games against inter county games and think "the standard is brutal". But sure, if you go in to see Wexford FC after a Premier League match you would come to the same conclusion." I don't think anybody's been arguing that the games played so far have been significantly less intense. It's more the case that they're significantly less meaningful.
A perfect example was Oulart-The Ballagh v Crossabeg-Ballymurn in Bellefield on Sunday - a real dramatic match which Crossabeg seemed to have won with an injury time goal, only for Oulart to then score a goal themselves even later.
Last year, that result would have put Crossabeg out of the championship proper, and straight into a relegation final.
This year, they're still in the championship, and worst case scenario, would have two chances to avoid relegation instead of just one. So, plain to see that last Sunday's match was far less meaningful than it would been the old way.
Supporters of the new system might argue that the Crossabeg-Ballymurn situation is actually a good thing. Instead of lads being despondent and out of the championship after four matches, they can still look ahead with at least some degree of hope and optimism.
But at what cost? We now have a group stage of a championship that's far less meaningful than it could be, and to my mind, than it should be.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2453 - 27/08/2024 12:02:49
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Looking at the tables, wouldn't Oylgate/Harriers/Cloughbawn be better off to lose this weekend and come 5th and face a pre lim Q-Final against Ballymurn rather than come 4th and play Ferns? A flawed system.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 682 - 27/08/2024 12:21:56
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Replying To countyman2022: "Looking at the tables, wouldn't Oylgate/Harriers/Cloughbawn be better off to lose this weekend and come 5th and face a pre lim Q-Final against Ballymurn rather than come 4th and play Ferns? A flawed system." Ya I'm sure those teams would rather be in a relegation semi than guaranteed senior hurling next year…………
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 423 - 27/08/2024 13:35:55
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Replying To Pikeman96: "I don't think anybody's been arguing that the games played so far have been significantly less intense. It's more the case that they're significantly less meaningful.
A perfect example was Oulart-The Ballagh v Crossabeg-Ballymurn in Bellefield on Sunday - a real dramatic match which Crossabeg seemed to have won with an injury time goal, only for Oulart to then score a goal themselves even later.
Last year, that result would have put Crossabeg out of the championship proper, and straight into a relegation final.
This year, they're still in the championship, and worst case scenario, would have two chances to avoid relegation instead of just one. So, plain to see that last Sunday's match was far less meaningful than it would been the old way.
Supporters of the new system might argue that the Crossabeg-Ballymurn situation is actually a good thing. Instead of lads being despondent and out of the championship after four matches, they can still look ahead with at least some degree of hope and optimism.
But at what cost? We now have a group stage of a championship that's far less meaningful than it could be, and to my mind, than it should be." So do away with groups. Or have smaller ones. Plenty of pretty meaningless group games the last 2 years. Our last 2 group games last year, and the year before, meant absolutely nothing.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 27/08/2024 13:50:21
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Replying To countyman2022: "Looking at the tables, wouldn't Oylgate/Harriers/Cloughbawn be better off to lose this weekend and come 5th and face a pre lim Q-Final against Ballymurn rather than come 4th and play Ferns? A flawed system." I wouldn't be putting my house on Oylegate, Harriers or Cloughbawn beating Crossabeg. I'm sure you wouldn't put the farm on it either. And I'm very sure none of those 3 clubs would be wanting to risk relegation to Intermediate that way either. Last time Cloughbawn were in a relegation final they lost to your lads, and the last time Oylegate went down they didn't come straight back up.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 27/08/2024 13:53:53
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Replying To Viking66: "I wouldn't be putting my house on Oylegate, Harriers or Cloughbawn beating Crossabeg. I'm sure you wouldn't put the farm on it either. And I'm very sure none of those 3 clubs would be wanting to risk relegation to Intermediate that way either. Last time Cloughbawn were in a relegation final they lost to your lads, and the last time Oylegate went down they didn't come straight back up." Very good point regards relegation. It is a funny one though, easier pre lim Q final for any of those teams coming 5th rather than coming 3rd or 4th.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 682 - 27/08/2024 13:58:07
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Replying To Pikeman96: "That's my understanding of it too. If the referee deals with something on the day, then it's over and done with, even if the referee was "wrong" in how he dealt with it. But if he doesn't deal with it at all, then it can be investigated and action taken all right." Ref could always say in the report that he didn't see the incident fully and then CB could follow up with a ban? Where blatant red card offences are missed/ignored, Id have no issue with "trial by social media".
Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 262 - 27/08/2024 14:14:12
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Replying To Pikeman96: "I don't think anybody's been arguing that the games played so far have been significantly less intense. It's more the case that they're significantly less meaningful.
A perfect example was Oulart-The Ballagh v Crossabeg-Ballymurn in Bellefield on Sunday - a real dramatic match which Crossabeg seemed to have won with an injury time goal, only for Oulart to then score a goal themselves even later.
Last year, that result would have put Crossabeg out of the championship proper, and straight into a relegation final.
This year, they're still in the championship, and worst case scenario, would have two chances to avoid relegation instead of just one. So, plain to see that last Sunday's match was far less meaningful than it would been the old way.
Supporters of the new system might argue that the Crossabeg-Ballymurn situation is actually a good thing. Instead of lads being despondent and out of the championship after four matches, they can still look ahead with at least some degree of hope and optimism.
But at what cost? We now have a group stage of a championship that's far less meaningful than it could be, and to my mind, than it should be." I agree however what you have to also link it to is who teams put out to play in each game. No doubt everyone is going at it 100% but as we have seen players with niggles etc are missing. This year they could skip two games and they would have a month off from hurling and possibly football as well. There is no way anyone in Crossabeg did not feel they needed to win that game or it wasn't meaningful - nobody wants to be in the bottom two.
I think why people feel it's different is because the back to back games brought excitement to the public as much as teams like momentum so do the public. Now you have to wait 2 weeks and that excitement dies off a bit.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1859 - 27/08/2024 14:21:49
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To Pikeman96: "To be frank, Viking, I'm surprised any club executive couldn't make up its own mind advance, when what it would mean in practice was so clear to anybody who thought about it at all.
There'd be some excuse for "leave it up to Paddy" if the motion was vague and there'd been no clarification sought on it, but that wasn't the case with this one.
To my mind, how to vote on something so fundamental as the way the entire championship is run shouldn't just be left up to Paddy. You know as well as I do that there are all sorts of club delegates. Some are very tuned in to the bigger picture, while some are not.
Anyway, what's done is done. There should be bit of "bite" to Round 5 matches, and after that, we'll be into the real stuff. At long last!" We all thought long and hard about it Pikeman. We didn't really see much difference except that you had to lose 2 games to get relegated instead of 1. We all agreed it was very unlikely that a team poor enough to lose all their group games were going to win the title at any grade. And I still feel that way now. I've been to a good few Senior, Intermediate and Intermediate A games already this year, there have been decent enough crowds, not obviously lower than last year, and the standard and intensity has been pretty much the same, excepting our lads in the opening rounds whose confidence was low after not winning a game of football or hurling all year, due to lads travelling and a spate of injuries. There has been one big difference alright, which might colour the views of lads who don't go to many games, and that is the level of media coverage has been noticeably slacker this year, with some weeks no match reports on Senior games, never mind the lower grades."
Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 262 - 27/08/2024 14:21:52
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Martins def in top 2 Depending on results those above named 3 teams plus shels can finish 2nd 3rd or 4th shels cant finish 5th any of other 3 can . If Harriers cloughbawn draw and oilgate win they in 2nd place . Shels 3rd cloughbawn 4th hars 5th .
Harriers win shels lose to oilgate
3team mini table depends on scire difference then in that table . To decide 2nd 3rd 4th
Load of different permutations.
Should be lot of calculations on the day going on
Shels win rapps beat martins shels martins 1 and 2 .
Still feel if format being kept 6th should be in relegation final nothing else .
Not against format just feel it could improve dramatically with that one change
4th and 5th playoff preliminary 1/4 finsl .
I wonder if that was the case would there have been such high score in c/beg and oulart game u could imagine the tension doesn't quarter a good game but it puts teams in a very tense situation which could nt get a more meaningful game if you tried. .
I doubt it . Surely one team would ve tried to shut up shop defend the lead. As it stands what was really at stake only placing 5th or 6th and a reprieve .
That would have been a real relegation semi final as would the harries rapps match . With the reward a preliminary 1/4 final .lose in relegation final . Albeit Harriers get 2nd chance v clughbawn . If both harrs and oilgate lose oilgate 5th .
Rapps now play oulart in preliminary 1/4 final . 50 50 imo actually would favour rapps if they get some players back .
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 261 - 27/08/2024 14:28:09
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Replying To countyman2022: "Very good point regards relegation. It is a funny one though, easier pre lim Q final for any of those teams coming 5th rather than coming 3rd or 4th." Other side of that coin is it's supposed be a "tougher" (on paper) quarter-final for the teams that finish 5th or 6th. Winners of the matches between the 5th and 6th placed teams play a team that finishes top of a group. Winners of prelim. q/finals between 3rd and 4th placed teams play a team that finishes second.
Having said that, with St. Martin's and Shels in the driving seat for the top two spots in Group B of senior (for example), I'd say most people would see little or nothing between them in terms of having to face one of them in a quarter-final.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2453 - 27/08/2024 14:28:14
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