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Replying To Formertownie: "The argument for can be used against as well .
There is no convincing me that if u finish 6th you deserve to be in relegation final .
I d be more sympathetic to finishing 5th as u end ur season on anti climax . More oft than not 4th and 5th never too far apart . 3rd deserve to be in 1/4 final .
You get 5 chances to win games if you finish bottom there is a reason for it. Your own club has lost lot good players does that mean they should nt be in relegation finsl if they finish bottom or get 2 chances more rather than 1 ." It's up to the players who are on the team right now to win as many games as they can. That's always the same whatever the format.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 25/08/2024 20:48:54
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Replying To Viking66: "Our club discussed it at Executive level, and consulted the players, most didn't have any opinion for or against the proposal, and those few that did balanced eachother out. The general concensus was that if it got voted in we would see how it worked out in reality.
I got told to listen to the presentation, and arguments for and against, and make up my mind based on this.
I'm actually a little surprised that any club Executive would have made a concrete decision before listening to all the arguments for and against it." To be frank, Viking, I'm surprised any club executive couldn't make up its own mind advance, when what it would mean in practice was so clear to anybody who thought about it at all.
There'd be some excuse for "leave it up to Paddy" if the motion was vague and there'd been no clarification sought on it, but that wasn't the case with this one.
To my mind, how to vote on something so fundamental as the way the entire championship is run shouldn't just be left up to Paddy. You know as well as I do that there are all sorts of club delegates. Some are very tuned in to the bigger picture, while some are not.
Anyway, what's done is done. There should be bit of "bite" to Round 5 matches, and after that, we'll be into the real stuff. At long last!
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2453 - 25/08/2024 20:51:31
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Replying To Formertownie: "The argument for can be used against as well .
There is no convincing me that if u finish 6th you deserve to be in relegation final .
I d be more sympathetic to finishing 5th as u end ur season on anti climax . More oft than not 4th and 5th never too far apart . 3rd deserve to be in 1/4 final .
You get 5 chances to win games if you finish bottom there is a reason for it. Your own club has lost lot good players does that mean they should nt be in relegation finsl if they finish bottom or get 2 chances more rather than 1 ." The set up we have now is like what Tyrone have in a way. Plenty League games to start with, which down here only really decide seedings for the real championship, then the real knockout championship games follow that League.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 25/08/2024 20:52:13
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Replying To Pikeman96: "To be frank, Viking, I'm surprised any club executive couldn't make up its own mind advance, when what it would mean in practice was so clear to anybody who thought about it at all.
There'd be some excuse for "leave it up to Paddy" if the motion was vague and there'd been no clarification sought on it, but that wasn't the case with this one.
To my mind, how to vote on something so fundamental as the way the entire championship is run shouldn't just be left up to Paddy. You know as well as I do that there are all sorts of club delegates. Some are very tuned in to the bigger picture, while some are not.
Anyway, what's done is done. There should be bit of "bite" to Round 5 matches, and after that, we'll be into the real stuff. At long last!" 6 teams in each group is the biggest cause of the problem as regards meaningless group games. Effectively too many League matches.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 25/08/2024 21:45:28
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See a few completly against the new format, a few whose minds won't be changed. I know out executive were told to hear the arguments and for and against and then decide. I'm like Viking, I will make up my mind once it's finished. Any games I have been to are very competitive. I haven't seen any team easing off, all the matches I've viewed are full blown championship affairs so not sure of people saying teams going threw the motions. There is a big incentive to not finish in the bottom 2 and senior and intermediate groups are still competitive unti the final game, with most placing a still undecided. Which is what you are want.
As I said I'll review at the end and see how it will have faired out.
On a separate note, I see Geraldine O'Hamrahans are flying at the minute. I'm not from the club or from the Ross district but for Wexford hurling to succeed, we need hurling towns like Ross to succeed.
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 423 - 25/08/2024 21:51:31
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Replying To alwaysasub: "See a few completly against the new format, a few whose minds won't be changed. I know out executive were told to hear the arguments and for and against and then decide. I'm like Viking, I will make up my mind once it's finished. Any games I have been to are very competitive. I haven't seen any team easing off, all the matches I've viewed are full blown championship affairs so not sure of people saying teams going threw the motions. There is a big incentive to not finish in the bottom 2 and senior and intermediate groups are still competitive unti the final game, with most placing a still undecided. Which is what you are want.
As I said I'll review at the end and see how it will have faired out.
On a separate note, I see Geraldine O'Hamrahans are flying at the minute. I'm not from the club or from the Ross district but for Wexford hurling to succeed, we need hurling towns like Ross to succeed." Yes they are unbeaten. Would be good to see them back up in Intermediate next year.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 26/08/2024 06:33:49
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Not totally opposed to format but definitely needs tweaking to put more jeopardy in it .
I ve.been at several games too and yes while competitive No team or supporters are panicking after a loss or ecstatic after a win ,as they all know they ll get a 2nd chance. .
Nobody pushing panic button . Yes we'll see at the end for sure it still feels like shadow boxing at present.
There is definitely a drop in intensity imo so far.
No team ever go out to lose but in the back of your mind knowing u can't go out until 6th game gives that soft landing .
Last thing in wexford hurling needs is it getting any softer .
In theory you mightvonly get one meaningful do or die game in the year .
With no real preparation as other games no matter how you dress it up won't have that intensity or cuthroat feel to them how could they .
When it comes to knockout will teams be able to turn it on or have they flatterred to deceive everything and your season boils down to that 6th game .
No real difference to the previous format bar 2 teams in 5th 6th are already gone out after playing more meaningful competitive games in round Robin league format .
If it stays it needs tweaking that's just my opinion I just feel intensity of championship is not quite there at present .
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 261 - 26/08/2024 09:07:29
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Replying To Pikeman96: "To be frank, Viking, I'm surprised any club executive couldn't make up its own mind advance, when what it would mean in practice was so clear to anybody who thought about it at all.
There'd be some excuse for "leave it up to Paddy" if the motion was vague and there'd been no clarification sought on it, but that wasn't the case with this one.
To my mind, how to vote on something so fundamental as the way the entire championship is run shouldn't just be left up to Paddy. You know as well as I do that there are all sorts of club delegates. Some are very tuned in to the bigger picture, while some are not.
Anyway, what's done is done. There should be bit of "bite" to Round 5 matches, and after that, we'll be into the real stuff. At long last!" I have to say I'm the same or our club is the same.
The idea of sending our delegate to vote on anything whatsoever with the mandate of "shur whatever ye think yourself" seems absolutely bonkers.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1401 - 26/08/2024 09:13:08
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Does anyone know what way it is if teams finish on the same points? Score difference or head to head? Or is the other rule still in play if 3 teams finish on same points?
Yellowhelmet (Australia) - Posts: 112 - 26/08/2024 09:17:03
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We don't have a choice but to wait till the end of the championship in reality but even with some cracking knockout games it still doesn't rescue this format for me.
No matter what the initial format is to get to knockout games knockout games are still knockout games with that bit of jeopardy and bit but that should erase the memory of 2 months almost of games barely above All county league intensity.
It's almost like the all ireland senior football championship, we get to knockout with some good games and recency bias kicks in, when you look at some of the scorelines over the past few weeks it shows that teams at certain stages are just going through the motions.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1401 - 26/08/2024 09:23:34
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Replying To Yellowhelmet: "Does anyone know what way it is if teams finish on the same points? Score difference or head to head? Or is the other rule still in play if 3 teams finish on same points?" Think that part is the same as last year, head to head if 2 teams level, score difference if 3 or more teams level.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 26/08/2024 09:56:57
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Replying To Formertownie: "Not totally opposed to format but definitely needs tweaking to put more jeopardy in it .
I ve.been at several games too and yes while competitive No team or supporters are panicking after a loss or ecstatic after a win ,as they all know they ll get a 2nd chance. .
Nobody pushing panic button . Yes we'll see at the end for sure it still feels like shadow boxing at present.
There is definitely a drop in intensity imo so far.
No team ever go out to lose but in the back of your mind knowing u can't go out until 6th game gives that soft landing .
Last thing in wexford hurling needs is it getting any softer .
In theory you mightvonly get one meaningful do or die game in the year .
With no real preparation as other games no matter how you dress it up won't have that intensity or cuthroat feel to them how could they .
When it comes to knockout will teams be able to turn it on or have they flatterred to deceive everything and your season boils down to that 6th game .
No real difference to the previous format bar 2 teams in 5th 6th are already gone out after playing more meaningful competitive games in round Robin league format .
If it stays it needs tweaking that's just my opinion I just feel intensity of championship is not quite there at present ." I don't remember there being any sense of panic or ecstasy after a loss or a win in the early rounds last year either. The problem with groups of 6 is that you can lose your first 2 anyway and still be guaranteed a quarter final by winning your last 3. Alot of years even 4 or 5 points could get you into a QF depending on other results, although Harriers missed out with 5 points I think, and Cloughbawn got relegated with 4 points.
Up or down for most teams nothing was decided until the 6th game anyway under the old system, the only teams that didn't get a 6th game were the 5th placed finishers.
If you want more cut throat games go back to groups of 4, and have a system like Clare, only top 2 go to QFs, and 2 get relegated, not one. Run a B championship for 3rd placed finishers.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 26/08/2024 10:04:26
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Replying To Pikeman96: "To be frank, Viking, I'm surprised any club executive couldn't make up its own mind advance, when what it would mean in practice was so clear to anybody who thought about it at all.
There'd be some excuse for "leave it up to Paddy" if the motion was vague and there'd been no clarification sought on it, but that wasn't the case with this one.
To my mind, how to vote on something so fundamental as the way the entire championship is run shouldn't just be left up to Paddy. You know as well as I do that there are all sorts of club delegates. Some are very tuned in to the bigger picture, while some are not.
Anyway, what's done is done. There should be bit of "bite" to Round 5 matches, and after that, we'll be into the real stuff. At long last!" We all thought long and hard about it Pikeman. We didn't really see much difference except that you had to lose 2 games to get relegated instead of 1. We all agreed it was very unlikely that a team poor enough to lose all their group games were going to win the title at any grade. And I still feel that way now. I've been to a good few Senior, Intermediate and Intermediate A games already this year, there have been decent enough crowds, not obviously lower than last year, and the standard and intensity has been pretty much the same, excepting our lads in the opening rounds whose confidence was low after not winning a game of football or hurling all year, due to lads travelling and a spate of injuries.
There has been one big difference alright, which might colour the views of lads who don't go to many games, and that is the level of media coverage has been noticeably slacker this year, with some weeks no match reports on Senior games, never mind the lower grades.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 26/08/2024 10:23:08
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Replying To Viking66: "Think that part is the same as last year, head to head if 2 teams level, score difference if 3 or more teams level." No, the new rule (introduced last year) is that if three or more teams are level, it first goes to a 'mini league' between those teams.
It means that if three teams are level, you could finish top of those three even if you have the worst scoring difference of them, depending on where exactly you picked up your points.
I could start spelling out a big hypothetical example to show exactly how that could happen, but it's too early on a Monday morning for that sort of thing!
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2453 - 26/08/2024 10:40:27
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Replying To Yellowhelmet: "Anyone any thoughts on the Richie kehoe incident?
Amazing he got no card.
Brendan Martin booked any hard tackle in the shels cloughbawn game.
Very poor standard of refs in the county imo.
And before someone asks why I don't ref I'm nearly 50 and bad knees lol." Will there be any retrospective action taken against the player for this "incident" given all the officials missed it?
The video of it has been shared on numerous different social media platforms, the last time I seen it shared on twitter it had well over 200k views.
JT22 (Wexford) - Posts: 36 - 26/08/2024 10:43:27
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Replying To Pikeman96: "No, the new rule (introduced last year) is that if three or more teams are level, it first goes to a 'mini league' between those teams.
It means that if three teams are level, you could finish top of those three even if you have the worst scoring difference of them, depending on where exactly you picked up your points.
I could start spelling out a big hypothetical example to show exactly how that could happen, but it's too early on a Monday morning for that sort of thing!" Ah ok I suppose you could finish top of the 3 on points but not on points difference but it's very unlikely. You would have to beat the other 2 teams narrowly, while the team that won the other game would have to have a bigger winning margin than your 2 added together, plus the margin you beat them by. It's possible for sure, but maybe not that likely.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 26/08/2024 11:00:42
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For me the quality of the championship has been extremely poor - Last years championship was a pretty dismal affair .. I don't know what it was but the quality of hurling was bad. In our own little county bubble we think it is decent until we get outside of the county and cannot compete.
There have been lots of debates that we need a 16 team championship but based on the intermediate championship of past few seasons, most teams wouldn't warm up the better senior teams. Oulart walked the 2022 Intermediate championship and struggle in the senior championship. Rathnure haven't gone out of 2nd gear yet this year in Intermediate and were in relegation for both 2022 / 2023 ..
MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 140 - 26/08/2024 11:21:43
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Replying To JT22: "Will there be any retrospective action taken against the player for this "incident" given all the officials missed it?
The video of it has been shared on numerous different social media platforms, the last time I seen it shared on twitter it had well over 200k views." Be very hard for cccc and co board to ignore it . Social media is powerful persuader to look but possibly hands are tied.
Depends on if it can be used bearing in mind so many incidents get missed or overlooked but are then brought to fore by video ,not every game is videoed or
video made available so would seem unfair if every game is nt scrutinised forensically. Would they be opening a huge can of worms by acting on one incident.
What he did was wrong for sure but remains to be seen if it will or can be revisited.
Can understand how it was missed as ref and umpires following the flight of the ball across the field . But they could see the 2 slaps as happened whilst ball was there reason fir the yellow first chop down was very dangerous don't fight Rory got 2nd yellow v clare for similar slap to 2nd one ..
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 261 - 26/08/2024 11:25:51
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Replying To Formertownie: "Be very hard for cccc and co board to ignore it . Social media is powerful persuader to look but possibly hands are tied.
Depends on if it can be used bearing in mind so many incidents get missed or overlooked but are then brought to fore by video ,not every game is videoed or
video made available so would seem unfair if every game is nt scrutinised forensically. Would they be opening a huge can of worms by acting on one incident.
What he did was wrong for sure but remains to be seen if it will or can be revisited.
Can understand how it was missed as ref and umpires following the flight of the ball across the field . But they could see the 2 slaps as happened whilst ball was there reason fir the yellow first chop down was very dangerous don't fight Rory got 2nd yellow v clare for similar slap to 2nd one .." Unless there is a mention of it in referees report there is nothing that can be done about it.
MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 140 - 26/08/2024 11:35:54
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Replying To MyOhMi: "For me the quality of the championship has been extremely poor - Last years championship was a pretty dismal affair .. I don't know what it was but the quality of hurling was bad. In our own little county bubble we think it is decent until we get outside of the county and cannot compete.
There have been lots of debates that we need a 16 team championship but based on the intermediate championship of past few seasons, most teams wouldn't warm up the better senior teams. Oulart walked the 2022 Intermediate championship and struggle in the senior championship. Rathnure haven't gone out of 2nd gear yet this year in Intermediate and were in relegation for both 2022 / 2023 .." Oulart have lost alot of players from the team that won Intermediate. Cloughbawn nearly didn't beat Fethard or St James in Intermediate knockout last year, and are doing pretty well this year.
Rathnure under performed in 2022 and 2023 with the players they had. They seem better motivated this year for sure. They topped their group in the ACHL Div1 this year also, beating both Senior finalists along the way, although both would have been missing their county players, a problem Rathnure didn't really have to contend with this spring, think they were only missing Wickham, and I think Higgins who was injured?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13322 - 26/08/2024 11:52:51
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