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The State Of Hurling In 2024

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The refs should be instructed to blow a free for any handpass that appears to be thrown, atm the benefit of the doubt is always given . It might be carnage for a game or 2 but things would improve quickly.
The ball travels too far now too which cuts out a lot of midfield play and its too easy to score. Perhaps don't allow the keeper to move from puck outs and also move 65's back to far 45 line.

Its still a great game to watch and football is improving with some great games this year.

dufferman (Down) - Posts: 157 - 25/06/2024 23:38:42    2554876

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Replying To daveboy:  "A big reason why the handpass is used more is to always work the ball into the position where the best player is in place to deliver a 70/30 ball into the forward making the run. It takes years to perfect. It takes enormous levels of skill and courage to execute. Limerick for years used to launch ball down on the FF line with rhe raucous roar of the crowd and fist pump from the full back line only for that same ball to be hoovered up by the opposition. I watched it for 30 odd years and no ultimate success. The development of a playing style to combat the physicality or that awesome kk team of the 00s subsequent Tipp team 10-16 and Gakway 2017 was why Limerick needed to do something different. They worked for 2 years developing that plan and then worked on the S&C but all the time the stick and ball was first and always first."
So you are encouraging a possession based game and the art of keeping possession made easy with throws. Finding a player using throws is not hugely skillful but does work and adds to high scoring games. Not everyone has perfected it like Limerick but TBF Limerick can mix it with all the skills but others will and are copying them and the throw is central to their plan. The beauty of hurling for me was always the turnovers and uncertainty of it and the individuals skills to get out of trouble and Im afraid throwing a ball is removing a large portion of that from the game.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 708 - 26/06/2024 09:46:22    2554901

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Replying To ZUL10:  "So you are encouraging a possession based game and the art of keeping possession made easy with throws. Finding a player using throws is not hugely skillful but does work and adds to high scoring games. Not everyone has perfected it like Limerick but TBF Limerick can mix it with all the skills but others will and are copying them and the throw is central to their plan. The beauty of hurling for me was always the turnovers and uncertainty of it and the individuals skills to get out of trouble and Im afraid throwing a ball is removing a large portion of that from the game."
I'm totally against the throw. Totally. Limerick have started using the short stick pass more and more as the inevitable clamp down on throwing is coming. My argument is removing the legitimate hand pass or the ability to do it under current rules will drastically slow down the game at the elite level due to the conditioning of the modern hurler where space isn't what it used to be. Limerick if you actually looked closely are not near the biggest culprits of the throw. It's a media narrative that's thrown out to suit certain quarters.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 26/06/2024 10:37:17    2554910

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Replying To ZUL10:  "So you are encouraging a possession based game and the art of keeping possession made easy with throws. Finding a player using throws is not hugely skillful but does work and adds to high scoring games. Not everyone has perfected it like Limerick but TBF Limerick can mix it with all the skills but others will and are copying them and the throw is central to their plan. The beauty of hurling for me was always the turnovers and uncertainty of it and the individuals skills to get out of trouble and Im afraid throwing a ball is removing a large portion of that from the game."
I think hurling right now is an incredible product. Its miles better than it ever was and that is based on 95% of commentators of the game, pundits, former players, spectators . Tge round Robin has been incredibly successful. The attendances are soaring year on year. Why . The product is exceptional. Why is the product exceptional? The players and management of all inter county teams have driven their ceilings to never seen before heights. Tweak the game by all means. Make refs more accountable for obvious throws not being called. I'd welcome this massively. More so on steps for me. But please god don't change any rules.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 26/06/2024 10:42:43    2554912

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I have to agree with many of the posters. Hurling is an excellent product and we have witnessed a savage amount of classic games over the last 5 years. The quality is excellent , the excitement has been excellent. But this year has been a borefest. Based on what I've seen to date I wouldnt be one bit disappointed if something cropped up that saw me missing any , or all , of the the three remaining games. This is something I would never have said before.

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 951 - 26/06/2024 11:25:08    2554919

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Replying To daveboy:  "I think hurling right now is an incredible product. Its miles better than it ever was and that is based on 95% of commentators of the game, pundits, former players, spectators . Tge round Robin has been incredibly successful. The attendances are soaring year on year. Why . The product is exceptional. Why is the product exceptional? The players and management of all inter county teams have driven their ceilings to never seen before heights. Tweak the game by all means. Make refs more accountable for obvious throws not being called. I'd welcome this massively. More so on steps for me. But please god don't change any rules."
If Limerick are eventually beaten by a team throwing the ball at exceptional rates then you might change your tune about the product at the moment. You will see no issues when your teams on top. You dont like throws but you haven't come up with a solution to stop them. We cant just carry on ignoring them and the refs are not the solution either. So we need a rule change not a tweak.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 708 - 26/06/2024 11:55:55    2554926

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Replying To anotheralias:  "I have to agree with many of the posters. Hurling is an excellent product and we have witnessed a savage amount of classic games over the last 5 years. The quality is excellent , the excitement has been excellent. But this year has been a borefest. Based on what I've seen to date I wouldnt be one bit disappointed if something cropped up that saw me missing any , or all , of the the three remaining games. This is something I would never have said before."
Totally understandable with the way the provincial finals went. That sense of inevitability possibly has crept in but I truly think a shift of power isn't far away. Limerick v Cork could sell out. Incredible to say for a semi final and the expense involved all year. I think this could be a classic again. Kilkenny v clare again same pairing so for a neutral maybe not as appetising.

I do see over the next 5 years leinster becoming extremely competitive again. Galway have admitted short comings in S&C development of the 19-22 year old bracket which is now being rectified. Wont take long before that'll see fruition out on the pitch. Wexfords centre of excellence is outstanding. Offaly are coming. Dublin have been very competitive I'm underage last few years and with more focus could be a sleeping giant.

In munster Tipp are rarely down too long over last 30 years and always produce huge talent. Waterford were inches away from. Getting through in munster. Cork are close to possibly making a huge impact nationally with how they've transformed since 2021 AI final.

People need to remember this Limerick team could very well ge the greatest ever to do it. Time will tell. Some say they already are. That dominance will go. Then I see an extremely competitive hurling environment in the very near future.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 26/06/2024 12:08:24    2554931

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Replying To ZUL10:  "If Limerick are eventually beaten by a team throwing the ball at exceptional rates then you might change your tune about the product at the moment. You will see no issues when your teams on top. You dont like throws but you haven't come up with a solution to stop them. We cant just carry on ignoring them and the refs are not the solution either. So we need a rule change not a tweak."
I did come up with a solution. If you change the rules you will not see any improvement in my opinion. There will be more stoppages and gatherings around the ball. I just disagree with this that's all my opinion. It drives me mad when I see players throwing the ball but it's not as prevalent as people think. Some throws given have been shown in replay to be legitimate handpasses. This is far from a limerick jersey on debate I'm.having. Limerick were penalised several times in munster RR for throws and rightly so. They've stopped doing it consequently from what I see. Refs need to courage to call it. And call them out when they don't. Soon enough the players will get it. There will always be a few throws as the player may hsve no other option. That should be penalised. Hurling is absolutely fine.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 26/06/2024 12:13:48    2554933

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Replying To daveboy:  "I did come up with a solution. If you change the rules you will not see any improvement in my opinion. There will be more stoppages and gatherings around the ball. I just disagree with this that's all my opinion. It drives me mad when I see players throwing the ball but it's not as prevalent as people think. Some throws given have been shown in replay to be legitimate handpasses. This is far from a limerick jersey on debate I'm.having. Limerick were penalised several times in munster RR for throws and rightly so. They've stopped doing it consequently from what I see. Refs need to courage to call it. And call them out when they don't. Soon enough the players will get it. There will always be a few throws as the player may hsve no other option. That should be penalised. Hurling is absolutely fine."
That solution was tried over league campaigns for years and everyone complained how the refs were ruining the flow of the game. And when championship comes the refs will abandon blowing throws for the same reason, Im sorry but your solution is only kicking the can down the road. The problem with it is that what you see as a throw I might not and visa versa. It simply wont work!

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 708 - 26/06/2024 12:53:46    2554947

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Replying To daveboy:  "I did come up with a solution. If you change the rules you will not see any improvement in my opinion. There will be more stoppages and gatherings around the ball. I just disagree with this that's all my opinion. It drives me mad when I see players throwing the ball but it's not as prevalent as people think. Some throws given have been shown in replay to be legitimate handpasses. This is far from a limerick jersey on debate I'm.having. Limerick were penalised several times in munster RR for throws and rightly so. They've stopped doing it consequently from what I see. Refs need to courage to call it. And call them out when they don't. Soon enough the players will get it. There will always be a few throws as the player may hsve no other option. That should be penalised. Hurling is absolutely fine."
"Hurling is absolutely fine." Few sports are absolutely fine, including hurling. Do you think the increase in simulation, dropping to ground under the slightest touch, is 'absolutely' fine?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2652 - 26/06/2024 13:21:35    2554957

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Firstly play the rules. Secondly look at why the rules is being excessively broke. Is it part tactical to win the game or how the game has evolved in other ways. Or a combination of both. I would say both. Stronger more athletic players. Professional coaching. Hurleys and ball that has the ball travelling further and faster. A twelve year old can put it over the bar from his own side of the field now. My generation would be lucky to drive the ball 50 yards and if it was wet 30. Evolution for a better game in my opinion. However what makes me laugh is those people who don't what rule changes to facilitate these changes. Oblivious to the fact that changes were required to bring the game to its present state. A wise man once said if you do what you did yesterday you will go backwards. If you do what you are doing today you will become stagnant. If you do what you need to do for tomorrow you will grow and prosper.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2864 - 26/06/2024 14:18:51    2554973

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""Hurling is absolutely fine." Few sports are absolutely fine, including hurling. Do you think the increase in simulation, dropping to ground under the slightest touch, is 'absolutely' fine?"
Wow you must have really fallen out of love with the game. There will be always small things in hurling to frustrate. 15 years ago there were shoulder to head collisions applauded. Hands cleaned off lads applauded. Ground hurling is this mythical gem people long for but it was woeful and so many wild pulls ro the head and the groin were passed over as "saying hello " to thr opponent. I hate simulation and we've been on the receiving end of 2 cards because of it. But I look at the macro level and 100% Hurling is absolutely fine. It'd the greatest sport there is snd imo never been as exciting as it is now. Ask Donal og(cork) Shane mcgrath (tipp) dalo(clare) landers (cork) tyrell (kk) they all say the same. The game has never been better.

I'm all for improving yes but changing no.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 26/06/2024 16:27:27    2555004

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Replying To Canuck:  "Firstly play the rules. Secondly look at why the rules is being excessively broke. Is it part tactical to win the game or how the game has evolved in other ways. Or a combination of both. I would say both. Stronger more athletic players. Professional coaching. Hurleys and ball that has the ball travelling further and faster. A twelve year old can put it over the bar from his own side of the field now. My generation would be lucky to drive the ball 50 yards and if it was wet 30. Evolution for a better game in my opinion. However what makes me laugh is those people who don't what rule changes to facilitate these changes. Oblivious to the fact that changes were required to bring the game to its present state. A wise man once said if you do what you did yesterday you will go backwards. If you do what you are doing today you will become stagnant. If you do what you need to do for tomorrow you will grow and prosper."
Next time you sit down and watch a hurling match try and watch a gaelic football match soccer match or rugby match straight after it. Please do. 3 sports that have been changed "improved" tinkered with and "made better". They are all in a far worse state now for all the prospering that has gone on. For any true hurling fan I'd be shocked if you get through 10 minutes before pulling weeds.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 26/06/2024 16:32:37    2555005

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"The State of hurling" is such a broad term.
The game has never been faster, players have never been stronger, never been more talented.
But overall, the game has diminished as a spectacle in my opinion. The game is so stop start now, so many frees, long range scores are great but if hurls were regulated to their proper size, they would be less of them.
The only game this year that got me really excited was Limerick Cork. People lost their mind over it but it was the only really outstanding game this year. There were good games, but to me that was the only great one.
The most glaring statistic on the state of hurling is that no new winner in 40+ years has emerged and it looks less likely to ever happen than it ever has before.
We need a championship structure which helps teams to progress if they put serious resources in to hurling, not one which suits the top counties and **** the rest of them which is what we have at present.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1256 - 26/06/2024 16:59:32    2555006

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  ""The State of hurling" is such a broad term.
The game has never been faster, players have never been stronger, never been more talented.
But overall, the game has diminished as a spectacle in my opinion. The game is so stop start now, so many frees, long range scores are great but if hurls were regulated to their proper size, they would be less of them.
The only game this year that got me really excited was Limerick Cork. People lost their mind over it but it was the only really outstanding game this year. There were good games, but to me that was the only great one.
The most glaring statistic on the state of hurling is that no new winner in 40+ years has emerged and it looks less likely to ever happen than it ever has before.
We need a championship structure which helps teams to progress if they put serious resources in to hurling, not one which suits the top counties and **** the rest of them which is what we have at present."
You most likely would be diametrically opposed to same treatment for football. Perish the thought, might hurt the darlin dubs.

BTW -Limerick had not win in 45. years ( 73) so they are brand spanking new and boy are they spankin everyone else's donkey. Long may it continue!

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1377 - 26/06/2024 17:55:37    2555012

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Replying To daveboy:  "Wow you must have really fallen out of love with the game. There will be always small things in hurling to frustrate. 15 years ago there were shoulder to head collisions applauded. Hands cleaned off lads applauded. Ground hurling is this mythical gem people long for but it was woeful and so many wild pulls ro the head and the groin were passed over as "saying hello " to thr opponent. I hate simulation and we've been on the receiving end of 2 cards because of it. But I look at the macro level and 100% Hurling is absolutely fine. It'd the greatest sport there is snd imo never been as exciting as it is now. Ask Donal og(cork) Shane mcgrath (tipp) dalo(clare) landers (cork) tyrell (kk) they all say the same. The game has never been better.

I'm all for improving yes but changing no."
"Wow you must have really fallen out of love with the game. There will be always small things in hurling to frustrate."

No. I haven't 'fallen out of love with the game'. Unlike you, who thinks the game is 'absolutely fine', I recognise the problems, which if not addressed, will get worse.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2652 - 26/06/2024 19:06:02    2555028

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Replying To daveboy:  "Next time you sit down and watch a hurling match try and watch a gaelic football match soccer match or rugby match straight after it. Please do. 3 sports that have been changed "improved" tinkered with and "made better". They are all in a far worse state now for all the prospering that has gone on. For any true hurling fan I'd be shocked if you get through 10 minutes before pulling weeds."
I always believe that our gaelic sports are unique or at least were. When I say change I mean change that preserves and enhance that uniqueness. Like not straying from the concept of foot--ball or hurling a game that its fundamental played by striking a ball with stick. This is not always the case we have and are drifting more towards those other sports that you are not so keen on. In both codes the ball going backwards more often that forward (soccer style) more so in football. Ball being thrown like basketball. A mark in football to copy rugby and the fielding skill that we had that kept the game moving gone. I guarantee you we are close in hurling where the goalie will be scoring regular. He is protected in his square. Now protect the game by making him stay inside the 21yd line during play. Have great admiration for the modern hurling goalie skills in handling, stopping and distributing the ball.
Just because other sport may have made their sport in your opinion worse is no reason for us not to make intelligent changes to protect and enhance those fundamentals that I speak of. Not always the case as gaelic football was ruined with kicking out of the hand etc.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2864 - 26/06/2024 19:30:15    2555033

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  ""The State of hurling" is such a broad term.
The game has never been faster, players have never been stronger, never been more talented.
But overall, the game has diminished as a spectacle in my opinion. The game is so stop start now, so many frees, long range scores are great but if hurls were regulated to their proper size, they would be less of them.
The only game this year that got me really excited was Limerick Cork. People lost their mind over it but it was the only really outstanding game this year. There were good games, but to me that was the only great one.
The most glaring statistic on the state of hurling is that no new winner in 40+ years has emerged and it looks less likely to ever happen than it ever has before.
We need a championship structure which helps teams to progress if they put serious resources in to hurling, not one which suits the top counties and **** the rest of them which is what we have at present."
Ireland and GAA was all very different 40 years ago, 20 years ago is a true reflection of the top teams going to stay at the top.

20 years ago the following teams have won the Liam McCarthy

Kilkenny (8)
Limerick (5)
Tipp (3)
Cork (2)
Galway (1)
Clare (1)

In the last 20 years the Sam Maguire has been won by

Dublin (9)
Kerry (6)
Tyrone (3)
Cork (1)
Donegal (1)

Very little is going to change at the top table in hurling or football.

Are the Armaghs, Louths or Roscommons going to lift the Sam Maguire year? Not a hope in hell.

No more than Dublin or Wexford were going to lift Liam McCarthy in the hurling.

One of the top 5 or 6 might have a dip for a few years but they are only replaced at the top by one of the other elite counties during that period.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 794 - 26/06/2024 20:12:17    2555034

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Replying To Canuck:  "I always believe that our gaelic sports are unique or at least were. When I say change I mean change that preserves and enhance that uniqueness. Like not straying from the concept of foot--ball or hurling a game that its fundamental played by striking a ball with stick. This is not always the case we have and are drifting more towards those other sports that you are not so keen on. In both codes the ball going backwards more often that forward (soccer style) more so in football. Ball being thrown like basketball. A mark in football to copy rugby and the fielding skill that we had that kept the game moving gone. I guarantee you we are close in hurling where the goalie will be scoring regular. He is protected in his square. Now protect the game by making him stay inside the 21yd line during play. Have great admiration for the modern hurling goalie skills in handling, stopping and distributing the ball.
Just because other sport may have made their sport in your opinion worse is no reason for us not to make intelligent changes to protect and enhance those fundamentals that I speak of. Not always the case as gaelic football was ruined with kicking out of the hand etc."
There has been huge change in hurling in last 10 or so years. You'd swear hurling hasn't moved on at all the way some people say. You can't go around jabbing people any more with the hurley which was a cowardly act. The game has gotten safer in an immeasurable way but still retains its huge physicality and abrasiveness. I always say to our underage kids when coaching you must be brave to hurl. Thuggery is no longer condoned as "manly". Slapping freely with the hurley has been stamped out pretty much because of the bravery of referees. You can't freely pull on a players hand catching a ball anymore that "the ball was there" mantra is gone. This is allowing way more high fielding than before. Look at hegarty in.munster final. I see it regularly now at u10s high catching from puckouts which is one of my favourite skills to see underage players perform.

Players can now express themselves on the hurling field without the risk of serious injury because they are talented. This is a huge progression from not very long ago because of the risk of red cards now


The black card was introduced and you see it being used more and more as the refs get used to it. Like all human error there will be debate on certain decisions but the will is there to make the game more free flowing which it has at times. Again refs are slowly getting a handle on this. There have been scourges in the past where people have said this and that is "ruining" the game. The referee is in charge and slowly players are realising there is consequence when you don't obey the rules . There are more goals this year as the black card is being utilised more. A huge positive. In time the handpass will follow imo.

Frees are now thankfully being taken from where the foul was committed. Before you could gain up to 5 or 6 yards without a bother. The 65s albeit need another tweak possibly 10 yards further back are taken from the 65. The penalty has been changed completely. The Anthony Nash 13 metre penalty is gone and a much better 1v1 is there now. Hawkeye has been introduced to help umpires.

Yes technology has improved as has the strength of the modern hurler and again there might need to be a tweak here again but let that come

I implore that this game is the best we have. I hate the throw. I hate 10 steps. I hate simulation. But I see the overall product. Its a beautiful thing. Cockney cat is correct. Let's not rest let's always try and make it better. But not drastically change it.

One thing that hurling needs more than anything and it was mentioned here is expansion among other countys. Investment. The money is there. Use it. Pay good people proper money to drive hurling in those smaller countys because its so worth the investment and lastly Hurling needs to be treated for what it is. The best sport in this country. The pundits are constantly saying this and Saturday afternoon double headers must go. Jarlath burns really needs this off season to think strong and hard what needs to be done because Donal og is right. Hurling is a lot kinder to the GAA than the GAA is to hurling.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 26/06/2024 21:37:27    2555044

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Replying To daveboy:  "Totally understandable with the way the provincial finals went. That sense of inevitability possibly has crept in but I truly think a shift of power isn't far away. Limerick v Cork could sell out. Incredible to say for a semi final and the expense involved all year. I think this could be a classic again. Kilkenny v clare again same pairing so for a neutral maybe not as appetising.

I do see over the next 5 years leinster becoming extremely competitive again. Galway have admitted short comings in S&C development of the 19-22 year old bracket which is now being rectified. Wont take long before that'll see fruition out on the pitch. Wexfords centre of excellence is outstanding. Offaly are coming. Dublin have been very competitive I'm underage last few years and with more focus could be a sleeping giant.

In munster Tipp are rarely down too long over last 30 years and always produce huge talent. Waterford were inches away from. Getting through in munster. Cork are close to possibly making a huge impact nationally with how they've transformed since 2021 AI final.

People need to remember this Limerick team could very well ge the greatest ever to do it. Time will tell. Some say they already are. That dominance will go. Then I see an extremely competitive hurling environment in the very near future."
But when it does become extremely competitive again it will be because of Limerick slipping back to the chasing pack and not the pack catching up with them.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2075 - 26/06/2024 21:53:40    2555048

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