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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32: "It's not that the handpass is a problem in itself. There's not enough kicking and I would agree ratio is far to weighted to the handpass at the minute.
I suppose one point that at least the forward mark rewards a kick pass so getting rid of it would reduce kicking even further. Even if it's only the 1.3 times per game. Not sure why teams don't try to use it more tbh.
It might not be clearly called out but the idea of giving extra points for scores out the field is that teams have to push our more on the kicker and that free up space inside for a kick pass. I don't know if it work but at least be worth a try.
I just don't think they can implement too much at the one time as you don't know what's working or not. Sandbox test is good idea. It will need clever thinkers managing the teams to find holes in the rule changes being tested." But, you don't say how the number of handpasses could be reduced?
Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 283 - 03/07/2024 13:30:27
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "Nobody throws the ball over the bar. if they did it would just show the incompetence of both the referee and his two umpires… You would probably rather see the players turn back and recycle the ball multiple times while the crowd nods off asleep…" How exactly, then, do players score points with the hand?
Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 283 - 03/07/2024 13:44:27
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Replying To omahant: "You need to explicitly state what that means." Agreed. I sometimes wonder if there is any moderator here.
Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 283 - 03/07/2024 13:46:34
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FRC proposed '3v3 inside each 65' - does this mean we have an insane 8v8 in the 15-metres zone between the 65s?
Also, my revised 'kick over the bar' scoring system:
Beyond 40m arc = 2 pts
Beyond 20m/inside arc = 1 pt
Inside 20, following 45-20 kick only = 1 pt
Inside 20 without 45-20 kick = 0 pts (a wide)
Goal from anywhere = 4 pts
The '45-20' means kicking the ball inside the 20 from beyond the 45, similar to rugby's '50-22' variety.
In lieu of the arc, I think a rectangle is easier to police - say, a broken line across the top of the D, with the 2 pts awarded for kicks from the left and right thirds of the width only (not the easiest middle third, from 33+ metres in front of goal).
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2771 - 04/07/2024 15:04:06
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Replying To omahant: "FRC proposed '3v3 inside each 65' - does this mean we have an insane 8v8 in the 15-metres zone between the 65s?
Also, my revised 'kick over the bar' scoring system:
Beyond 40m arc = 2 pts
Beyond 20m/inside arc = 1 pt
Inside 20, following 45-20 kick only = 1 pt
Inside 20 without 45-20 kick = 0 pts (a wide)
Goal from anywhere = 4 pts
The '45-20' means kicking the ball inside the 20 from beyond the 45, similar to rugby's '50-22' variety.
In lieu of the arc, I think a rectangle is easier to police - say, a broken line across the top of the D, with the 2 pts awarded for kicks from the left and right thirds of the width only (not the easiest middle third, from 33+ metres in front of goal)." What happens if someone crosses this 65 to get the ball or chase an opponent with the ball, leaving only 2 in that "zone".
Who'll count the players at a u14 D3 League game on a wet night in Ballinameen?
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1717 - 04/07/2024 15:55:31
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Replying To omahant: "FRC proposed '3v3 inside each 65' - does this mean we have an insane 8v8 in the 15-metres zone between the 65s?
Also, my revised 'kick over the bar' scoring system:
Beyond 40m arc = 2 pts
Beyond 20m/inside arc = 1 pt
Inside 20, following 45-20 kick only = 1 pt
Inside 20 without 45-20 kick = 0 pts (a wide)
Goal from anywhere = 4 pts
The '45-20' means kicking the ball inside the 20 from beyond the 45, similar to rugby's '50-22' variety.
In lieu of the arc, I think a rectangle is easier to police - say, a broken line across the top of the D, with the 2 pts awarded for kicks from the left and right thirds of the width only (not the easiest middle third, from 33+ metres in front of goal)." You love to add complexity and or take things from other sports simply be seeing them and not knowing why they are in use in those sports.
The 50-22 law in rugby or any vsrient on it isn't needed and your proposal for points is a waste of time as its simply unworkable for refs who don't have a full team of officials with then. And that's a lot of refs in most games at most levels
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3588 - 04/07/2024 16:41:15
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Replying To Aibrean: "How exactly, then, do players score points with the hand?" By holding the ball in one hand and propelling the ball with the other hand.. same as making a pass to another player… you can't throw the ball in either cases… You must be new to the game… maybe stick to the rugby where they are allowed throw the ball….
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 2340 - 04/07/2024 17:16:12
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "What happens if someone crosses this 65 to get the ball or chase an opponent with the ball, leaving only 2 in that "zone".
Who'll count the players at a u14 D3 League game on a wet night in Ballinameen?" My preference would be not to have 3v3 "at all times" but evaluate it ONLY "when the ball enters the zone in an attacking direction" (like an offside rule). So in your example, as the ball is leaving the zone, the defender can give chase leaving two (or ten) inside, as the zone can flood once the ball is inside.
I also think the 65 metre zone is too big for 3v3 - make it inside the 45 or a new 33 (across the top of the D). As for how could the ref police it - players in the FRC sandbox games are apparently bringing it to the ref's attention - so if it's that identifiable, compliance might automate after a while.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2771 - 04/07/2024 17:36:11
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Replying To KillingFields: "You love to add complexity and or take things from other sports simply be seeing them and not knowing why they are in use in those sports.
The 50-22 law in rugby or any vsrient on it isn't needed and your proposal for points is a waste of time as its simply unworkable for refs who don't have a full team of officials with then. And that's a lot of refs in most games at most levels" "....not knowing why they are in use in those sports."
That's an allegation that is as wild as untrue. I didn't say the "45-20" was intended to kick to touch to get a throw in to the lineout (I simply referenced it as a kick from point A to B - everybody except one knitwit knew that).
I've said myself that the arc may be harder to police than a rectangle (at any level). My scoring change only adds a 45-20 kick requirement to the close range point - the rest is as FRC proposed.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2771 - 04/07/2024 17:52:22
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "By holding the ball in one hand and propelling the ball with the other hand.. same as making a pass to another player… you can't throw the ball in either cases… You must be new to the game… maybe stick to the rugby where they are allowed throw the ball…." No, it is not the 'same as making a pass to another player'. Here is what the rulebook says:
A player on the team attacking a goal and who is in possession of the ball may not score:
(i) by carrying the ball over his opponents' goal line;
(ii) a goal with his hands except as provided in Rule 1.2, Exception (ii) but may score a point with the open hand(s) or fist.
Looks very like a throw to me!! You can even use two hands to throw the ball!!
And here is what the rulebook says about 'a pass to another player':
The ball must be struck with an open hand with a definite underhand striking action.
Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 283 - 04/07/2024 20:31:36
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Replying To Aibrean: "No, it is not the 'same as making a pass to another player'. Here is what the rulebook says:
A player on the team attacking a goal and who is in possession of the ball may not score:
(i) by carrying the ball over his opponents' goal line;
(ii) a goal with his hands except as provided in Rule 1.2, Exception (ii) but may score a point with the open hand(s) or fist.
Looks very like a throw to me!! You can even use two hands to throw the ball!!
And here is what the rulebook says about 'a pass to another player':
The ball must be struck with an open hand with a definite underhand striking action." I never knew that distinction for scoring a point - I thought the "striking action" was present for scoring, similar to passing to a player. Does it make sense to have two different rules?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2771 - 05/07/2024 16:54:47
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Replying To Aibrean: "No, it is not the 'same as making a pass to another player'. Here is what the rulebook says:
A player on the team attacking a goal and who is in possession of the ball may not score:
(i) by carrying the ball over his opponents' goal line;
(ii) a goal with his hands except as provided in Rule 1.2, Exception (ii) but may score a point with the open hand(s) or fist.
Looks very like a throw to me!! You can even use two hands to throw the ball!!
And here is what the rulebook says about 'a pass to another player':
The ball must be struck with an open hand with a definite underhand striking action." Don't be making a complete fool of yourself… it's exactly the same thing… You cannot throw the ball over the bar or throw it to another player as a pass unless your playing rugby…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 2340 - 05/07/2024 23:52:01
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: " Replying To Aibrean: "No, it is not the 'same as making a pass to another player'. Here is what the rulebook says:
A player on the team attacking a goal and who is in possession of the ball may not score:
(i) by carrying the ball over his opponents' goal line;
(ii) a goal with his hands except as provided in Rule 1.2, Exception (ii) but may score a point with the open hand(s) or fist.
Looks very like a throw to me!! You can even use two hands to throw the ball!!
And here is what the rulebook says about 'a pass to another player':
The ball must be struck with an open hand with a definite underhand striking action." Don't be making a complete fool of yourself… it's exactly the same thing… You cannot throw the ball over the bar or throw it to another player as a pass unless your playing rugby…"
Why are there 2 different rules with completely different wording?
Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 283 - 06/07/2024 10:48:27
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Replying To Aibrean: " Replying To ForeverBlue2: "[quote=Aibrean: "No, it is not the 'same as making a pass to another player'. Here is what the rulebook says:
A player on the team attacking a goal and who is in possession of the ball may not score:
(i) by carrying the ball over his opponents' goal line;
(ii) a goal with his hands except as provided in Rule 1.2, Exception (ii) but may score a point with the open hand(s) or fist.
Looks very like a throw to me!! You can even use two hands to throw the ball!!
And here is what the rulebook says about 'a pass to another player':
The ball must be struck with an open hand with a definite underhand striking action." Don't be making a complete fool of yourself… it's exactly the same thing… You cannot throw the ball over the bar or throw it to another player as a pass unless your playing rugby…"
Why are there 2 different rules with completely different wording?"]It's you that's somewhat impaired… scoring a point with an open hand or fist is the same action used to give a hand pass to a teammate.. In no way does the rule seem to allow the ball be thrown in either cases.. scoring or passing… You must strike the ball with one hand (fist) from the other hand…. simple
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 2340 - 06/07/2024 11:56:26
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The All-Ireland hurling final was incredible. The football review committee have their work cut out for them. Easy rules to apply at all levels that encourages attacking football, so that the team that goes out to score the most wins.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8120 - 23/07/2024 11:15:57
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