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Some Updates On The Football Review

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@hyperache (Meath) - Posts: 220 - 31/07/2024 16:40:50 2563275 I didn't say I was against the 2-pointer, on the contrary, it will be great. My concern is that it may be more difficult to manage an arc - I'd prefer a rectangle - say a straight broken line across at the top of the D, with the 2-pointer allowed from say up to 20 metres in from each side line - not allowed from in front of the the goal (only 33 metres). Based on Pythagoras, and say a pitch width of 80 metres (Croke Park is 88), that angle makes it a 40 metres kick. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2891 - 01/08/2024 00:17:59 2563330 Link
Have Jim Gavin & Co. an impossible task to save football? Club championships are being ruined by the blanket defence. Gate receipts are dropping. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8286 - 01/08/2024 12:55:07 2563414 Link
Replying To omahant: "@hyperache (Meath) - Posts: 220 - 31/07/2024 16:40:50 2563275 I didn't say I was against the 2-pointer, on the contrary, it will be great. My concern is that it may be more difficult to manage an arc - I'd prefer a rectangle - say a straight broken line across at the top of the D, with the 2-pointer allowed from say up to 20 metres in from each side line - not allowed from in front of the the goal (only 33 metres). Based on Pythagoras, and say a pitch width of 80 metres (Croke Park is 88), that angle makes it a 40 metres kick." That should state - based on Croke Park's 88 metres width, the kick is 40.8 metres from 20 metres in from the sideline. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2891 - 01/08/2024 13:19:00 2563419 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "Have Jim Gavin & Co. an impossible task to save football? Club championships are being ruined by the blanket defence. Gate receipts are dropping." Jim McGuinness and Rory Gallagher ruined Gaelic football. Jim is God in Donegal and they talk about his tactics as being very innovative. They have All Ireland medals in their back pockets so fair play to them. Did not really see any additional unique innovation from Jim this year, but in fairness to Jim; he can get his teams to perform at a consistently high level which has to be acknowledged. The makers of the automatic bomb were also very innovative but what good did it do? Some innovation can have dier consequences. Hopefully Jim Gavin and his team can come up with a couple of good solutions as they are very badly needed. (Football & Finance) I wish them well. letsgetgoing (Roscommon) - Posts: 633 - 01/08/2024 15:17:21 2563449 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "Have Jim Gavin & Co. an impossible task to save football? Club championships are being ruined by the blanket defence. Gate receipts are dropping." I'd normally agree - but I think Gavin has rare capabilities and I think this task is in the best hands - do you agree? The 2-pts arc alone should draw the defence out - say, a 60% attempt at 2, worth 1.2 pts per attempt, is more than a close-range 90% of 1 - a better risk/reward than now, 0.6 pts vs 0.9). omahant (USA) - Posts: 2891 - 01/08/2024 16:49:13 2563464 Link
Replying To letsgetgoing: "Jim McGuinness and Rory Gallagher ruined Gaelic football. Jim is God in Donegal and they talk about his tactics as being very innovative. They have All Ireland medals in their back pockets so fair play to them. Did not really see any additional unique innovation from Jim this year, but in fairness to Jim; he can get his teams to perform at a consistently high level which has to be acknowledged. The makers of the automatic bomb were also very innovative but what good did it do? Some innovation can have dier consequences. Hopefully Jim Gavin and his team can come up with a couple of good solutions as they are very badly needed. (Football & Finance) I wish them well." I dunno, McGuinness was gone for 10 years and teams are free to play as they like. Donegal played great stuff in 2012 and 2014. Dublin had a very successful blueprint in the past decade . Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 577 - 01/08/2024 17:38:58 2563476 Link
The solo and go sounds like a good idea. Like the tap and go in rugby. Keeps the advantage with the attacking team. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8286 - 01/08/2024 17:58:19 2563480 Link
Replying To Curlew66: "I dunno, McGuinness was gone for 10 years and teams are free to play as they like. Donegal played great stuff in 2012 and 2014. Dublin had a very successful blueprint in the past decade ." Dublin got 15 men behind the ball like every other team. Do you not remember when Roscommon held on to the ball for 6 minutes a couple of years ago when all the Dublin players were in their own half. Jason Shellock was their coach when they implemented the basketball system of total defence when they did not have the ball, with Ciaran Kilkenny their quarter back when they had the ball to circulate it. In fairness to McGuinness he came up with the blanket defence and fast attach system. letsgetgoing (Roscommon) - Posts: 633 - 01/08/2024 18:56:07 2563488 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "The solo and go sounds like a good idea. Like the tap and go in rugby. Keeps the advantage with the attacking team." Seems that went down well in all the trial games. I don't like the 40m arc thing at all. Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1955 - 01/08/2024 19:00:47 2563489 Link
Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Seems that went down well in all the trial games. I don't like the 40m arc thing at all." What bugs you about the arc? Are there other options for dismantling the boring blanket? Is the revised advance mark an improvement? Players will get an advantage. They can go for goal. If no advantage accrues, they go back for the mark. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8286 - 01/08/2024 21:10:09 2563506 Link
Replying To letsgetgoing: "Dublin got 15 men behind the ball like every other team. Do you not remember when Roscommon held on to the ball for 6 minutes a couple of years ago when all the Dublin players were in their own half. Jason Shellock was their coach when they implemented the basketball system of total defence when they did not have the ball, with Ciaran Kilkenny their quarter back when they had the ball to circulate it. In fairness to McGuinness he came up with the blanket defence and fast attach system." A load of cobblers. In fairness to McGuinness he did come up with the blanket defence which is still the problem. The fast counter attack only works if the other team press forward regardless. Dublin realised that and had the management and players to be patient and skilled to negate the blanket. Dublin and Mayo and Kerry(to a lesser extent) played football against each other but against the blanket teams if you played an attacking game you were leaving yourself vulnerable. sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 795 - 01/08/2024 22:12:35 2563515 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "The solo and go sounds like a good idea. Like the tap and go in rugby. Keeps the advantage with the attacking team." Nothing at all like rugby. When you tap and go in rugby you're standing ahead of your teammates or they're offside. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7651 - 02/08/2024 00:38:25 2563530 Link
I also like the required 45-20 kick for the advanced mark. I'd like the 45-20 kick to be required too to make a "non-mark" point eligible from inside the 20 (the 45-20 can bounce/hit the turf in this case). Without the 45-20, a point has to be scored inside the arc/outside the 20, with the team allowed to play it back to do so - or 2 points outside the arc as proposed. What does everyone think? omahant (USA) - Posts: 2891 - 02/08/2024 03:17:17 2563534 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "What bugs you about the arc? Are there other options for dismantling the boring blanket? Is the revised advance mark an improvement? Players will get an advantage. They can go for goal. If no advantage accrues, they go back for the mark." What do you think of the 2:1 difference between outside/inside the arc scoring - in basketball it's only 3:2, a smaller reward for the long-range attempt. My view is that the risk/reward needs to work - so if you beat the 50% rate on long-range, you get >1 point per attempt with 2:1, but it needs to beat 66.67% with 3:2 - so I prefer to incentivise with the FRC idea. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2891 - 02/08/2024 03:39:22 2563535 Link
Are all these new rules just making things very convoluted. It'll be nearly making a new game. Is there anything to be said for reducing teams to 13 aside? It would be much harder for teams to close down space at least. And maybe you'd have to combine that with restricting keepers to their areas or else it would end up back to 14 outfield at times. I know it's a bit different but look at rugby 7s and the effect of reducing bodies on the field. MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 999 - 02/08/2024 08:30:58 2563542 Link
I know this would need to be trailed to see how it would work in practical terms but could the rules state that the defenders can't go past the half way line and forwards equally can't go past the half way line in the opposite direction. I believe this would result in more kicking of the ball, it would force defenders to defend one and one. It could be easily refereed as they referee and linesmen could spot when a defender or forward runs into an opposing half by their numbers. I would scrap the mark completely. Based upon what I have outlined above, there would be no need for the mark as the forward would need to win their own ball and create a scoring opportunity within the existing rules. Alternatively, I suggest a shot clock be introduced whereby the attacking team have to attempt a score within a specified period of time once they pass the half way line. The only drawback I envisage in relation to this idea is that opposing defense might become even more regimented in terms of defending for that particular period of time which is exactly what needs to be eradicated in order to improve the game for viewers. wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 2023 - 02/08/2024 11:15:48 2563550 Link
Replying To MachaireConnacht: "Are all these new rules just making things very convoluted. It'll be nearly making a new game. Is there anything to be said for reducing teams to 13 aside? It would be much harder for teams to close down space at least. And maybe you'd have to combine that with restricting keepers to their areas or else it would end up back to 14 outfield at times. I know it's a bit different but look at rugby 7s and the effect of reducing bodies on the field." True, but wide open spaces isn't always good Machaire. For me, Rugby 7s is an awful game compared to 15 a side. Too fast, no proper tackling, rucks, mauls, scrums, line outs like the 15s game, not enough collisions. Like an adapted version of Rugby League. Looks entertaining enough when it's on the television but rugby is about more tactics, using the slower big men in the forwards and the soft lads in the backs to move it fast out the line. I think the men's 7s game had too many scores where the ball was moved quick into acres of space. I preferred the Women's 7s, they seemed to defend the spaces better, and there was more hitting in games. Some great defending in their games. For Gaelic Football they can change the rules as much as they like but there will still be risk averse coaches and referees that will let games flow and some that won't. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7651 - 02/08/2024 11:50:20 2563555 Link
Surely 13 a side worth a trial, lefty (Wexford) - Posts: 219 - 02/08/2024 12:50:03 2563574 Link
Replying To wicklowsupport: "I know this would need to be trailed to see how it would work in practical terms but could the rules state that the defenders can't go past the half way line and forwards equally can't go past the half way line in the opposite direction. I believe this would result in more kicking of the ball, it would force defenders to defend one and one. It could be easily refereed as they referee and linesmen could spot when a defender or forward runs into an opposing half by their numbers. I would scrap the mark completely. Based upon what I have outlined above, there would be no need for the mark as the forward would need to win their own ball and create a scoring opportunity within the existing rules. Alternatively, I suggest a shot clock be introduced whereby the attacking team have to attempt a score within a specified period of time once they pass the half way line. The only drawback I envisage in relation to this idea is that opposing defense might become even more regimented in terms of defending for that particular period of time which is exactly what needs to be eradicated in order to improve the game for viewers." Who decides who defenders are? Will players have to wear different coloured armbands or what? Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1955 - 02/08/2024 13:56:40 2563585 Link
I'm swaying in favour of the two pointer. If teams are setting up their low block blanket defence, a two pointer should be a good risk reward shot for those who can work the score. While defences are trying to cut off the two pointer, the suggested advanced mark can see an attacking team go for goal (4 points). The end goal is to make "gaelic games will be the most enjoyable amateur games in the world to play and watch"! legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8286 - 03/08/2024 09:39:28 2563662 Link