National Forum

Change The Rules For 45'S And 65'S?

(Oldest Posts First)

Is it needed?

In hurling now a 65 is almost a guaranteed score. Is a guaranteed score a just result from a ball over the end line?

Not as much but nowadays at intercounty level players can kick, a 45 accurately but not at the high conversion rates we see a 65 fly over the bar in hurling.

Originally in hurling it was brought in as a 70 and as a means to restart the game giving some advantage to the attacking team, not as a free shot with an almost guarantee of a score as it is now with a lighter sliothar etc.

Should we tweak it to allow for a restart but not for a direct score from a 65? Is that more in line with the original idea and background to it?

Is similar required in football?

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1430 - 23/05/2024 13:14:02    2546584

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Replying To tearintom:  "Is it needed?

In hurling now a 65 is almost a guaranteed score. Is a guaranteed score a just result from a ball over the end line?

Not as much but nowadays at intercounty level players can kick, a 45 accurately but not at the high conversion rates we see a 65 fly over the bar in hurling.

Originally in hurling it was brought in as a 70 and as a means to restart the game giving some advantage to the attacking team, not as a free shot with an almost guarantee of a score as it is now with a lighter sliothar etc.

Should we tweak it to allow for a restart but not for a direct score from a 65? Is that more in line with the original idea and background to it?

Is similar required in football?"
'65s have become too easy, the same as a lot of long range scores in hurling.

The GAA should regulate the size of the bas of the hurl imo. Per the rule book the bas shouldn't exceed 13cm in diameter iirc. The majority of hurls in use today are in and around a diameter of 16-18cm in fact. Today's hurlers are extremely skilful but their hurls make it easier for them to control and strike the ball. I'd love to see a game between 2 top teams using a proper regulation hurl. The amount of scores would decrease but the game might actually be more enjoyable with more in play time, more contests for the ball etc.

If they are not going to regulate the bas, they should do away with '65s as they currently stand. The majority of '65s come from a piece of great defending, a defender's block or keeper's save etc, it feels unjust that the attacking team then get what amounts to a tap over score. Make them be non-scorable frees or be struck from the ground etc.

In football I don't think the conversion rate of '45s is high enough to make a change, but at the same time I wouldn't be against a change where a '45 became a non-scorable free.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13780 - 23/05/2024 14:21:54    2546604

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Am wondering if this thread stems from Martin Breheny's column on the topic. :)

He suggests either moving both 65s and 45s further out the field, or else making them like an indirect free.

I'd favour the latter of those two suggestions myself. With the conversion rate over 90% in top-level hurling, doesn't seem right that a great save by a goalkeeper or a great block by a defender that sees the ball go over the end line should be instantly "punished" by an almost guaranteed point for the other team.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2630 - 23/05/2024 14:49:28    2546614

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Get rid of both why should a team who have managed to defend and avoid a score be punished by giving the attacking team a free shot. Especially in hurling where it's now a 95%chance of a score

Instead restart with a kick out understand the rule is in since beginning of time but in modern game it's not really fair to others.

ITSCHOLAR (Carlow) - Posts: 302 - 23/05/2024 15:37:40    2546624

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If it became indirect in football, you would have teams going back to their own goalkeeper with it, so it would definitely be a disaster.

In hurling you would have defenders deliberately playing the ball out of play if they came under any pressure.

Beware of the law of unintended consequences!

SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 707 - 23/05/2024 15:51:56    2546626

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Replying To ITSCHOLAR:  "Get rid of both why should a team who have managed to defend and avoid a score be punished by giving the attacking team a free shot. Especially in hurling where it's now a 95%chance of a score

Instead restart with a kick out understand the rule is in since beginning of time but in modern game it's not really fair to others."
You couldn't restart with a kick-out or puck-out.

If you got a kick-out or puck-out after playing the ball over your end line, it would mean that any defender under pressure near there would just have to tap the ball across that line, and his team would be rewarded by the pressure being instantly lifted and his goalkeeper having all the time allowed to restart play instead.

I much prefer the suggestion of a 65 or 45 being treated as an indirect free. Would be clean and easy to operate too.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2630 - 23/05/2024 15:53:52    2546627

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Do what they do do in the English soccer ball. Award a corner!

Onion_Sack (Dublin) - Posts: 266 - 23/05/2024 16:07:44    2546635

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In football just stop the goalkeepers from taking 45's and the chances of a team getting a score from one would drop by about 80%…. In hurling just move the taking point back 10/15 metres thus increasing the difficulty somewhat…!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3066 - 23/05/2024 16:24:20    2546642

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Replying To SouthOfTheGap:  "If it became indirect in football, you would have teams going back to their own goalkeeper with it, so it would definitely be a disaster.

In hurling you would have defenders deliberately playing the ball out of play if they came under any pressure.

Beware of the law of unintended consequences!"
I was about to make the same point. Any defender under pressure near his own goal, could simply knock the ball over their own end line.
People need to think these things through.
I do agree that the 65 has become too easy to score.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2197 - 23/05/2024 19:12:39    2546686

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Replying To Onion_Sack:  "Do what they do do in the English soccer ball. Award a corner!"
You know, that's not crazy. You're not going to score from the corner in hurling. (Are you?) And you're basically restarting the game up at the end where the defender put it out, and it's contestable. There'd be huge drama as well, potentially. Would be interesting for football too, dropping a ball in on the square from the corner flag.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1126 - 24/05/2024 07:34:59    2546726

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No issue in football. It is tough to convert a 45.

I would bring in a rule about how long you have to take a free from the free being awarded. With keepers trotting up, and then going through their routine, it is becoming ridiculous. Bring your keeper up by all means but let him sprint because the shot clock is running!

Hurling on the other hand, maybe leave it on the 65 but have a set spot near the sideling where they can take it from, or give them a sideline cut.

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1893 - 24/05/2024 12:17:58    2546800

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Replying To Mayonman:  "No issue in football. It is tough to convert a 45.

I would bring in a rule about how long you have to take a free from the free being awarded. With keepers trotting up, and then going through their routine, it is becoming ridiculous. Bring your keeper up by all means but let him sprint because the shot clock is running!

Hurling on the other hand, maybe leave it on the 65 but have a set spot near the sideling where they can take it from, or give them a sideline cut."
Tough because very few players ( goalkeepers apart ) have the ability to kick a ball off the ground…. and county footballers are supposed to be the elite of the game… heaven help us

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3066 - 24/05/2024 12:29:24    2546805

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Better again how about we go back to the original rules of the GAA and reintroduce the forfeit point which only comes into play when scores are level. In a draw match whoever concedes the most forfeit points loses. Might be a way for Armagh to progress :)

liosbreac6265 (Longford) - Posts: 255 - 24/05/2024 12:29:28    2546806

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "You know, that's not crazy. You're not going to score from the corner in hurling. (Are you?) And you're basically restarting the game up at the end where the defender put it out, and it's contestable. There'd be huge drama as well, potentially. Would be interesting for football too, dropping a ball in on the square from the corner flag."
A restart from where the 14 metre line meets the side line would be interesting?

It's a possible score but tricky.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1430 - 24/05/2024 12:49:51    2546814

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Only award the 65 (or 45) for "deliberate" tap behind by defender and reward the defence with a puck/kick out for deflecting an attacking shot?

In the Aussie AFL, the vast majority of out of field plays are deemed "not deliberate" with boundary throw ins by the umpire - "free kick ins" are rare.

For "deliberate" rulings, maybe move the 65 and 45 back to defensive 65 (an 80 in Croke Park) and attacking 65, respectively.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2911 - 24/05/2024 15:23:29    2546861

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Honestly football has became a *******ized sport cos of all the chopping and changing of the rules. I would tread carefully with hurling. Has there been many changes to hurling rules in the last 15 years? football has had too many to count

gaelsboy (Leitrim) - Posts: 572 - 29/05/2024 14:23:34    2548165

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Maybe a re-start from the corner but with one defender and one attacker allowed inside the 21, and the keeper can only tackle once either player gets posession and the other players can't get involved until the ball comes outside the 21.

Imagine an All-Ireland final, Tony Kelly v Sean Finn and Clare are 2-points down. What drama. It'd be a long way ahead of watching a player stroll out to the 65 (TJ is well able to waste 2 minutes of time doing it) and take a minute to take the free everybody knows he will score.

Either that or make the restart have to happen within 30 seconds, out of the hands from the 65 indirect.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1786 - 29/05/2024 14:51:30    2548168

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Replying To tearintom:  "Is it needed?

In hurling now a 65 is almost a guaranteed score. Is a guaranteed score a just result from a ball over the end line?

Not as much but nowadays at intercounty level players can kick, a 45 accurately but not at the high conversion rates we see a 65 fly over the bar in hurling.

Originally in hurling it was brought in as a 70 and as a means to restart the game giving some advantage to the attacking team, not as a free shot with an almost guarantee of a score as it is now with a lighter sliothar etc.

Should we tweak it to allow for a restart but not for a direct score from a 65? Is that more in line with the original idea and background to it?

Is similar required in football?"
have your 65 or 45 but you can't score directly from one.

Next question please

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1197 - 31/05/2024 06:58:38    2548505

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Replying To tearintom:  "Is it needed?

In hurling now a 65 is almost a guaranteed score. Is a guaranteed score a just result from a ball over the end line?

Not as much but nowadays at intercounty level players can kick, a 45 accurately but not at the high conversion rates we see a 65 fly over the bar in hurling.

Originally in hurling it was brought in as a 70 and as a means to restart the game giving some advantage to the attacking team, not as a free shot with an almost guarantee of a score as it is now with a lighter sliothar etc.

Should we tweak it to allow for a restart but not for a direct score from a 65? Is that more in line with the original idea and background to it?

Is similar required in football?"
How about make them be taken from the ground like a sideline cut. We have all seen some wonderful points scored from a sideline which is a serious skill. This way only the very best could do it. Even if it's off the ground, move it to 45 yard line rather than 65?

D.Hyde (Roscommon) - Posts: 217 - 31/05/2024 10:21:24    2548524

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