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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To LePetitComté: "And here we are again.....let the bigotry continue.... "Students vow to keep fighting for GAA team as principal says school will focus on three sports only Senior students at the school took to the streets for the second time last Friday demanding them be allowed play the national game" Doesn't mention hurling at all in that article?"I see what you did there! On a more serious note, the silence over this in comparison to the relentless in your face "diversity" and "inclusion" speaks volumes, If this was a ban on any other sport we'd have a month if Primetime Investigates and crying pluralists.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 27/10/2024 12:45:25
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Right. For once and for all, is gaelic football actually banned in the school or not?
i.e. if some students started up a gaelic football kickaround between them on school grounds, would they be told "Stop! We don't allow that sport here!"
Or is just a case of what I strongly suspect, where the truth is actually just "School chooses not enter gaelic football competitions".
As previously stated, that's the school's own perogative. It's not a ban or discrimination.
As also previously stated, the school I attended myself regularly has calls from students there to enter schools soccer competitions, but it's never done so.
Doesn't mean that soccer is banned there. Just means they choose not to field soccer teams.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2619 - 27/10/2024 19:55:35
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Right. For once and for all, is gaelic football actually banned in the school or not?
i.e. if some students started up a gaelic football kickaround between them on school grounds, would they be told "Stop! We don't allow that sport here!"
Or is just a case of what I strongly suspect, where the truth is actually just "School chooses not enter gaelic football competitions".
As previously stated, that's the school's own perogative. It's not a ban or discrimination.
As also previously stated, the school I attended myself regularly has calls from students there to enter schools soccer competitions, but it's never done so.
Doesn't mean that soccer is banned there. Just means they choose not to field soccer teams." The students are seeking clarification from the School board on whether Gaelic Games are officially "banned" at the school, and the school are unlikely to say "Yes, Gaelic Games are banned here", as that would open a massive can of worms. They have a petition of 400 students who signed a petition out of 574 and 90% of teachers.
Dundalk Grammar School lists SEC - Secondary Education Committee grant awarding body on their main page and they are linked to Transferor Representatives Council in Northern Ireland, which probably explains why the school hasn't fielded Gaelic teams in National Competitions, which is fine, we shouldn't be forcing schools of a certain ethos to play certain sports.
Its up to students and parents to pick a secondary school that fits their educational and sporting needs, I'm sure there are plenty of other secondary schools of similar quality that can cater for their Gaelic needs.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1202 - 30/10/2024 13:33:35
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Replying To Commodore: "The students are seeking clarification from the School board on whether Gaelic Games are officially "banned" at the school, and the school are unlikely to say "Yes, Gaelic Games are banned here", as that would open a massive can of worms. They have a petition of 400 students who signed a petition out of 574 and 90% of teachers.
Dundalk Grammar School lists SEC - Secondary Education Committee grant awarding body on their main page and they are linked to Transferor Representatives Council in Northern Ireland, which probably explains why the school hasn't fielded Gaelic teams in National Competitions, which is fine, we shouldn't be forcing schools of a certain ethos to play certain sports.
Its up to students and parents to pick a secondary school that fits their educational and sporting needs, I'm sure there are plenty of other secondary schools of similar quality that can cater for their Gaelic needs." Many thanks. Seems to be as I suspected all right.
The words "ban" and "banned" completely misrepresent the situation, but the true position of simply "school chooses not to enter gaelic football competition" is nowhere near as provocative.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2619 - 31/10/2024 15:11:42
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A school deciding not to participate in Gaelic Games despite 90% of students and teachers wanting them to do so. It's essentially a ban, as the school has decided the students can't play Gaelic football for the school, because they don't want it played by the school.
The GAA decided that at one point that foreign sports would not be played at Croke Park. That was known as a ban, which was of course famously changed with the amendment to Rule 42.
Whether you call it a ban, forbidden or a decision not to allow it, it's all the same. The school doesn't allow students to play Gaelic football for the school itself.
A ban doesn't mean it can't be changed at some stage of course, much like Rule 42.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 31/10/2024 18:16:09
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Replying To WanPintWin: "A school deciding not to participate in Gaelic Games despite 90% of students and teachers wanting them to do so. It's essentially a ban, as the school has decided the students can't play Gaelic football for the school, because they don't want it played by the school.
The GAA decided that at one point that foreign sports would not be played at Croke Park. That was known as a ban, which was of course famously changed with the amendment to Rule 42.
Whether you call it a ban, forbidden or a decision not to allow it, it's all the same. The school doesn't allow students to play Gaelic football for the school itself.
A ban doesn't mean it can't be changed at some stage of course, much like Rule 42." Ah look. There's a difference between choosing not to enter competitions in a given sport, and actually banning that sport.
A look at the Dundalk Grammar School website shows that they enter competitions in badminton, cricket, orienteering, rugby, swimming, and tennis, amongst other sports.
The local school here that I keep referring to doesn't enter competitions in any of those sports. It doesn't mean that they're banned from the school. There's a big difference.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2619 - 31/10/2024 22:35:37
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Replying To Pikeman96: "I'm focussing only on the word "banned" here, not the rights or wrongs of whether or not they should establish a gaelic football team for schools competitions.
Being banned would mean students being told they're not allowed to play gaelic football at the school under any circumstances - i.e. if a group of lads went to the one of the playing fields during lunchtime and started a kickaround, they'd be rapidly told to stop.
That would be a ban if they'd instead be allowed to have an impromptu game of soccer or rugby or cricket or something else instead. However, if they're not allowed play any of those games by themselves and without proper supervision, then it would be a ban on all sports in such circumstances, and not just on gaelic football.
Again, "banned" is different from choosing not to field a team, particularly when they've never done so before. Would be different if they'd always fielded football teams but suddenly decided to stop while still fielding in other sports, but that doesn't appear to be the case here.
As a side note - for a variety of circumstances, two years ago my own club decided not to field a football team at minor level that year, and the lads played all hurling instead. But we didn't ban the minors from playing football. Two different things." God but this is a ridiculous post.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6144 - 01/11/2024 07:10:28
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Replying To Pikeman96: " Replying To Commodore: "The students are seeking clarification from the School board on whether Gaelic Games are officially "banned" at the school, and the school are unlikely to say "Yes, Gaelic Games are banned here", as that would open a massive can of worms. They have a petition of 400 students who signed a petition out of 574 and 90% of teachers.
Dundalk Grammar School lists SEC - Secondary Education Committee grant awarding body on their main page and they are linked to Transferor Representatives Council in Northern Ireland, which probably explains why the school hasn't fielded Gaelic teams in National Competitions, which is fine, we shouldn't be forcing schools of a certain ethos to play certain sports.
Its up to students and parents to pick a secondary school that fits their educational and sporting needs, I'm sure there are plenty of other secondary schools of similar quality that can cater for their Gaelic needs." Many thanks. Seems to be as I suspected all right. The words "ban" and "banned" completely misrepresent the situation, but the true position of simply "school chooses not to enter gaelic football competition" is nowhere near as provocative."
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6144 - 01/11/2024 07:49:06
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Replying To Greengrass: " Replying To Pikeman96: "[quote=Commodore: "The students are seeking clarification from the School board on whether Gaelic Games are officially "banned" at the school, and the school are unlikely to say "Yes, Gaelic Games are banned here", as that would open a massive can of worms. They have a petition of 400 students who signed a petition out of 574 and 90% of teachers.
Dundalk Grammar School lists SEC - Secondary Education Committee grant awarding body on their main page and they are linked to Transferor Representatives Council in Northern Ireland, which probably explains why the school hasn't fielded Gaelic teams in National Competitions, which is fine, we shouldn't be forcing schools of a certain ethos to play certain sports.
Its up to students and parents to pick a secondary school that fits their educational and sporting needs, I'm sure there are plenty of other secondary schools of similar quality that can cater for their Gaelic needs." Many thanks. Seems to be as I suspected all right. The words "ban" and "banned" completely misrepresent the situation, but the true position of simply "school chooses not to enter gaelic football competition" is nowhere near as provocative."
Timmy86 (Sligo) - Posts: 304 - 01/11/2024 09:59:33
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Replying To Timmy86: " Replying To Greengrass: "[quote=Pikeman96: "[quote=Commodore: "The students are seeking clarification from the School board on whether Gaelic Games are officially "banned" at the school, and the school are unlikely to say "Yes, Gaelic Games are banned here", as that would open a massive can of worms. They have a petition of 400 students who signed a petition out of 574 and 90% of teachers.
Dundalk Grammar School lists SEC - Secondary Education Committee grant awarding body on their main page and they are linked to Transferor Representatives Council in Northern Ireland, which probably explains why the school hasn't fielded Gaelic teams in National Competitions, which is fine, we shouldn't be forcing schools of a certain ethos to play certain sports.
Its up to students and parents to pick a secondary school that fits their educational and sporting needs, I'm sure there are plenty of other secondary schools of similar quality that can cater for their Gaelic needs." Many thanks. Seems to be as I suspected all right. The words "ban" and "banned" completely misrepresent the situation, but the true position of simply "school chooses not to enter gaelic football competition" is nowhere near as provocative."
Or Sligo?
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1950 - 01/11/2024 10:20:37
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Replying To Timmy86: " Replying To Greengrass: "[quote=Pikeman96: "[quote=Commodore: "The students are seeking clarification from the School board on whether Gaelic Games are officially "banned" at the school, and the school are unlikely to say "Yes, Gaelic Games are banned here", as that would open a massive can of worms. They have a petition of 400 students who signed a petition out of 574 and 90% of teachers.
Dundalk Grammar School lists SEC - Secondary Education Committee grant awarding body on their main page and they are linked to Transferor Representatives Council in Northern Ireland, which probably explains why the school hasn't fielded Gaelic teams in National Competitions, which is fine, we shouldn't be forcing schools of a certain ethos to play certain sports.
Its up to students and parents to pick a secondary school that fits their educational and sporting needs, I'm sure there are plenty of other secondary schools of similar quality that can cater for their Gaelic needs." Many thanks. Seems to be as I suspected all right. The words "ban" and "banned" completely misrepresent the situation, but the true position of simply "school chooses not to enter gaelic football competition" is nowhere near as provocative."
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6144 - 01/11/2024 10:25:30
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Thanks for the additional information Greengrass. It's clearly a lot more that the school just choosing not to enter a competition, as some seem to be trying to portray it as. The school has given a few bogus reasons already it seems, which don't add up.
First I heard their argument that it wasn't a pillar sport of the school, which they say are soccer, rugby and hockey. Then we hear they allowed newer sports such as badminton and cricket, which weren't pillar sports of the school.
Then we hear it's an insurance issue. The parents offer to pay any insurance costs, and all GAA club members are already covered anyway, so that's a red herring.
I saw from local reports that teachers from the school received a letter from the school board saying that Gaelic football was a non-sanctioned sport and they must withdraw their team from competition as the sport is banned. A bit odd to be using language like that for a sport which supposedly isn't banned.
As for the nonsense point making it equivalent to a club not fielding a minor team. A club deciding not field at minor level will be due to insufficient numbers, not because they don't want players that age playing football for the club. This school has over 90% of students and teachers wanting it play Gaelic football. They'll have no issue fielding a team or getting teachers to help.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 01/11/2024 10:38:19
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Replying To WanPintWin: "Thanks for the additional information Greengrass. It's clearly a lot more that the school just choosing not to enter a competition, as some seem to be trying to portray it as. The school has given a few bogus reasons already it seems, which don't add up.
First I heard their argument that it wasn't a pillar sport of the school, which they say are soccer, rugby and hockey. Then we hear they allowed newer sports such as badminton and cricket, which weren't pillar sports of the school.
Then we hear it's an insurance issue. The parents offer to pay any insurance costs, and all GAA club members are already covered anyway, so that's a red herring.
I saw from local reports that teachers from the school received a letter from the school board saying that Gaelic football was a non-sanctioned sport and they must withdraw their team from competition as the sport is banned. A bit odd to be using language like that for a sport which supposedly isn't banned.
As for the nonsense point making it equivalent to a club not fielding a minor team. A club deciding not field at minor level will be due to insufficient numbers, not because they don't want players that age playing football for the club. This school has over 90% of students and teachers wanting it play Gaelic football. They'll have no issue fielding a team or getting teachers to help." Who are these "Governors" who seem to own the school.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1950 - 01/11/2024 12:24:54
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Who are these "Governors" who seem to own the school." According to the school's own website, the board of governors seems to have come from a local committee originally. The members are listed there.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 01/11/2024 13:40:08
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Who are these "Governors" who seem to own the school." They're the equivalent of a Board of Management. They govern the school.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6144 - 01/11/2024 13:43:56
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@greengrass @wanpintwin - I'm not trying to portray it as anything. I'm simply trying to establish the actual facts of the case. Greengrass obviously has more local knowledge of it than I do. I acknowledged somewhere further back up in the thread that the only info I can really go on is what's in the press reports that were linked to.
The latest detailed info from Greengrass does change my view a bit, but with all due respect, it's ridiculous for him to use the word ridiculous about my post saying there's a difference between an actual ban and choosing not to enter competition.
As I keep pointing out, my local secondary school doesn't enter soccer teams in competitions despite the fact that many students would like it to, but it doesn't mean soccer is banned in the school.
Anyway, have to ask - what are the established ("proper") GAA-playing schools in the Dundalk area? And if schools GAA is that important to the parents & students at the centre of this issue, what would be the main reason(s) for not choosing one of those schools instead?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2619 - 01/11/2024 18:25:38
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Replying To Pikeman96: "@greengrass @wanpintwin - I'm not trying to portray it as anything. I'm simply trying to establish the actual facts of the case. Greengrass obviously has more local knowledge of it than I do. I acknowledged somewhere further back up in the thread that the only info I can really go on is what's in the press reports that were linked to.
The latest detailed info from Greengrass does change my view a bit, but with all due respect, it's ridiculous for him to use the word ridiculous about my post saying there's a difference between an actual ban and choosing not to enter competition.
As I keep pointing out, my local secondary school doesn't enter soccer teams in competitions despite the fact that many students would like it to, but it doesn't mean soccer is banned in the school.
Anyway, have to ask - what are the established ("proper") GAA-playing schools in the Dundalk area? And if schools GAA is that important to the parents & students at the centre of this issue, what would be the main reason(s) for not choosing one of those schools instead?" All mixed schools in the Dundalk area play in the Lennon Cup Pikeman apart from Dundalk Grammar School. Those schools are O Fiach College, Dundalk CBS, De La Salle College and the Marist College. Dundalk Grammar School is the only fee paying secondary school in the Dundalk area. They also have a a past pupils union that provides strong financial support to the school. They have excellent educational facilities. What is disconcerting is that the Board of Governors have not publicly articulated why they refuse to sanction Gaelic football as a sport despite the expressed wishes of the students, parents and teachers. This is ill advised as it compromises the principal and the board itself.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6144 - 01/11/2024 19:12:16
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Replying To Greengrass: " Replying To Pikeman96: "@greengrass @wanpintwin - I'm not trying to portray it as anything. I'm simply trying to establish the actual facts of the case. Greengrass obviously has more local knowledge of it than I do. I acknowledged somewhere further back up in the thread that the only info I can really go on is what's in the press reports that were linked to.
The latest detailed info from Greengrass does change my view a bit, but with all due respect, it's ridiculous for him to use the word ridiculous about my post saying there's a difference between an actual ban and choosing not to enter competition.
As I keep pointing out, my local secondary school doesn't enter soccer teams in competitions despite the fact that many students would like it to, but it doesn't mean soccer is banned in the school.
Anyway, have to ask - what are the established ("proper") GAA-playing schools in the Dundalk area? And if schools GAA is that important to the parents & students at the centre of this issue, what would be the main reason(s) for not choosing one of those schools instead?" All mixed schools in the Dundalk area play in the Lennon Cup Pikeman apart from Dundalk Grammar School. Those schools are O Fiach College, Dundalk CBS, De La Salle College and the Marist College. Dundalk Grammar School is the only fee paying secondary school in the Dundalk area. They also have a a past pupils union that provides strong financial support to the school. They have excellent educational facilities. What is disconcerting is that the Board of Governors have not publicly articulated why they refuse to sanction Gaelic football as a sport despite the expressed wishes of the students, parents and teachers. This is ill advised as it compromises the principal and the board itself."
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7651 - 03/11/2024 19:45:07
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