National Forum

Tailteann Cup 2024

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Replying To eoinog:  "I think the Tailteann Cup is a good competition. It's for weaker counties and it's fulfilling the need . People seem to forget that if the standard of football improved 200% there would still be teams ranked 16 to 33. (I'm including New York and London and excluding Kilkenny) The carrot of winning the Tailteann Cup meaning that you are playing for Sam Maguire is rubbish. You have zero chance of even getting to a semi final. Just look at how Meath (last year's winners) and Westmeath ( previous years winners) are doing . The Tailteann Cup gives all weaker counties an opportunity to play football at a level that they should be able to compete comfortably at."
Agree 1000%

TJH (Sligo) - Posts: 43 - 11/06/2024 11:51:06    2550773

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The GAA should address the amount of money being spent by individual counties on background teams etc in all competitions. There is constant reference to seedings and changing the structure (format) of the various competitions without addressing the elephant in the room. Regardless of the competition, it is unfair to have counties operating as semi professional outfits due to the resources that are available to them especially in what is suppose to be an amateur organisation. In relation to the current format, I agree that the top two teams should progress from the group stages; it should be same in the Sam Maguire. There are two many games in a short space of time, again, this suits the counties with the most players i.e. bigger squads. Injuries to key players means that a weaker county may not have a player of the same quality to replace the injured player. The problem with ranking/seeding teams is that some teams don't take the national football leagues seriously. Maybe it would be a way to force some teams to take the league more seriously if it is to impact them later in the year. The Tailteann cup has been won in the last two years by teams who were relegated from Division 2 i.e. Westmeath and Meath. The favourites for this year's competition will be Kildare, Fermanagh and Down who are promoted to division 2 for next season. I would like to see no Division 2 team in the Tailteann cup in the coming years as I think it is unfair that a team playing all season at a higher level should be in a competition with division 3 and 4 teams.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1977 - 11/06/2024 12:22:30    2550782

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "The GAA should address the amount of money being spent by individual counties on background teams etc in all competitions. There is constant reference to seedings and changing the structure (format) of the various competitions without addressing the elephant in the room. Regardless of the competition, it is unfair to have counties operating as semi professional outfits due to the resources that are available to them especially in what is suppose to be an amateur organisation. In relation to the current format, I agree that the top two teams should progress from the group stages; it should be same in the Sam Maguire. There are two many games in a short space of time, again, this suits the counties with the most players i.e. bigger squads. Injuries to key players means that a weaker county may not have a player of the same quality to replace the injured player. The problem with ranking/seeding teams is that some teams don't take the national football leagues seriously. Maybe it would be a way to force some teams to take the league more seriously if it is to impact them later in the year. The Tailteann cup has been won in the last two years by teams who were relegated from Division 2 i.e. Westmeath and Meath. The favourites for this year's competition will be Kildare, Fermanagh and Down who are promoted to division 2 for next season. I would like to see no Division 2 team in the Tailteann cup in the coming years as I think it is unfair that a team playing all season at a higher level should be in a competition with division 3 and 4 teams."
great point about div2 teams, Down got promoted but lost out on SM to Clare because of the way the Munster was drawn correct? That is just trying to make the provincials more relevant than they are, even if Clare arguably pushed Kerry closer than Down would have had in a SM group game. So I do not think it is fair to the likes of Down but removing that link would make provincials irrelevant to a lot of counties and the GAA do not want that

gaelsboy (Leitrim) - Posts: 534 - 11/06/2024 12:57:44    2550796

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "The GAA should address the amount of money being spent by individual counties on background teams etc in all competitions. There is constant reference to seedings and changing the structure (format) of the various competitions without addressing the elephant in the room. Regardless of the competition, it is unfair to have counties operating as semi professional outfits due to the resources that are available to them especially in what is suppose to be an amateur organisation. In relation to the current format, I agree that the top two teams should progress from the group stages; it should be same in the Sam Maguire. There are two many games in a short space of time, again, this suits the counties with the most players i.e. bigger squads. Injuries to key players means that a weaker county may not have a player of the same quality to replace the injured player. The problem with ranking/seeding teams is that some teams don't take the national football leagues seriously. Maybe it would be a way to force some teams to take the league more seriously if it is to impact them later in the year. The Tailteann cup has been won in the last two years by teams who were relegated from Division 2 i.e. Westmeath and Meath. The favourites for this year's competition will be Kildare, Fermanagh and Down who are promoted to division 2 for next season. I would like to see no Division 2 team in the Tailteann cup in the coming years as I think it is unfair that a team playing all season at a higher level should be in a competition with division 3 and 4 teams."
Westmeath we're in division 3 in 2022 and we're not promoted to div 2 that year . Cavan were promoted from division 4 in spring 2022, so it was a division 3 team v a division 4 team in final wasn't it? Meath we're not relegated from div2 last year or this year.

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 739 - 11/06/2024 14:15:12    2550815

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Replying To Fionn:  "The Tailteann Cup is working out fine.
Don't fix it, if it is not broken.

It is the AI Groups that are not great.
Top 2 go through. Make it plain and simple.

If they really wanted - they could introduce a 3rd/4th competition to run concurrently - bottom 2 in each group play off in 1/4 finals and so on.
At least that way everyone has a good chance of a trophy and a chance to play in a Final in Croke Park, and no extra weeks needed. But not sure there would be the appetite for that though to be honest."
We had the top two in a group with the super 8s and it didn't work out. Four groups of three would likely be the next step as suggested by Connacht GAA main man John Prenty.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3456 - 11/06/2024 17:09:47    2550854

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Replying To dickie10:  "Westmeath we're in division 3 in 2022 and we're not promoted to div 2 that year . Cavan were promoted from division 4 in spring 2022, so it was a division 3 team v a division 4 team in final wasn't it? Meath we're not relegated from div2 last year or this year."
Fair point about Westmeath; you may be right but my point is this - westmeath and meath were division 2 calibre teams; meath were pushed down to the tailteann cup because a division 3 team were on the weak side of the draw in a weak province. I think it might be clare in munster. Clare didn't have to overcome Kerry nor Cork - how can that be any help to division 3 and 4 teams in the tailteann cup? By right Meath ought to be in the sam maguire not the tailteann cup competition. The odds are a relegated division 2 team will win this year's competition.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1977 - 11/06/2024 19:35:47    2550874

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Replying To Gaa_lover:  "We had the top two in a group with the super 8s and it didn't work out. Four groups of three would likely be the next step as suggested by Connacht GAA main man John Prenty."
The Tailteann Cup might get the old Christy Ring Cup format treatment. Lose two and you're out. It was in contention for the first year's Tailteann but counties opted for an option of more than 16 being allowed into the All-Ireland series, if counties outside the top league 16 made the provincial finals.
The Prenty system is far from ideal.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8161 - 11/06/2024 20:49:53    2550883

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "Fair point about Westmeath; you may be right but my point is this - westmeath and meath were division 2 calibre teams; meath were pushed down to the tailteann cup because a division 3 team were on the weak side of the draw in a weak province. I think it might be clare in munster. Clare didn't have to overcome Kerry nor Cork - how can that be any help to division 3 and 4 teams in the tailteann cup? By right Meath ought to be in the sam maguire not the tailteann cup competition. The odds are a relegated division 2 team will win this year's competition."
I think all 4 teams with home advantage come through this weekends game. Antrim will give Fermanagh the closest run. London nearly took them last weekend but fancy Antrim to give Fermanagh a tough case to answer even though its in Brewster

hurler301 (Tipperary) - Posts: 12 - 11/06/2024 22:34:56    2550904

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The League is by far the best competition, the gap between the top teams in the Tailteann and the bottom teams is too big. The money being spend in weaker counties to compete in the Tailteann is wasted money in a competition they can't win. You need to be in a competition you can compete in, Senior, intermediate and Junior..... I dont think the present format works.

3rdmidfielder (Australia) - Posts: 316 - 12/06/2024 08:05:41    2550923

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Replying To 3rdmidfielder:  "The League is by far the best competition, the gap between the top teams in the Tailteann and the bottom teams is too big. The money being spend in weaker counties to compete in the Tailteann is wasted money in a competition they can't win. You need to be in a competition you can compete in, Senior, intermediate and Junior..... I dont think the present format works."
The same can be said of the All Ireland championship as well… About 10 teams in these ridiculous groups spending vast sums of money preparing for nothing as they have absolutely no chance of success… Far too many pointless games

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 2680 - 12/06/2024 08:51:51    2550933

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Replying To 3rdmidfielder:  "The League is by far the best competition, the gap between the top teams in the Tailteann and the bottom teams is too big. The money being spend in weaker counties to compete in the Tailteann is wasted money in a competition they can't win. You need to be in a competition you can compete in, Senior, intermediate and Junior..... I dont think the present format works."
I understand what you are saying but I was at Corrigan Park for Antrim vs London and you wouldn't be able to tell who was the division 3 and who was the division 4 team in all honesty. There has to be some sort of aspiration for the division 4 counties to improve and that format affords them a chance to see what the step up is.

hurler301 (Tipperary) - Posts: 12 - 12/06/2024 09:23:51    2550938

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Replying To 3rdmidfielder:  "The League is by far the best competition, the gap between the top teams in the Tailteann and the bottom teams is too big. The money being spend in weaker counties to compete in the Tailteann is wasted money in a competition they can't win. You need to be in a competition you can compete in, Senior, intermediate and Junior..... I dont think the present format works."
A fair point. I don't think there is much between the bottom half of Div 3 and Div 4. Even the top 4 in Div 3 are beatable by any of the others. Some teams, like Kildare, Meath, Down have no business being in the Tailltean, to my mind anyway. But our league format throws up these anomalies from time to time. I'm unsure who worked out these formulas for determining who plays in the A I and who goes into the TC. Must have been one of these AI bots. It's pretty well convoluted.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1148 - 12/06/2024 09:27:22    2550940

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "The same can be said of the All Ireland championship as well… About 10 teams in these ridiculous groups spending vast sums of money preparing for nothing as they have absolutely no chance of success… Far too many pointless games"
100% a lot of counties are in a competition they don't have a chance to win. Spending crazy money, club championships delayed. Attendances down, football has never been more unwatchable and people are losing interest.

Hopefully these new rules that are proposed work. I think some will definitely help.

Then they need to sort out the format!!

3rdmidfielder (Australia) - Posts: 316 - 12/06/2024 10:48:04    2550969

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Replying To 3rdmidfielder:  "100% a lot of counties are in a competition they don't have a chance to win. Spending crazy money, club championships delayed. Attendances down, football has never been more unwatchable and people are losing interest.

Hopefully these new rules that are proposed work. I think some will definitely help.

Then they need to sort out the format!!"
You could make the same argument for Sam Maguire. A competition which it looks like only one of two teams can win this year unless there is some drastic surprise.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 999 - 12/06/2024 10:59:18    2550975

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I think 3 tiers could solve some of the mismatches, but London New York and Waterford did not look a bit out of place in this years competition, fact is some teams are gonna make a go of it and others are not. Plus teams will never improve if they never get a chance to play teams slight above them, it is only the provincials were Div1 are pitted against Div4. So really I think it cannot change much. Lots of counties would love to be able to say they deserve a place in the SM due to league position, I do not know when, if ever, Leitrim would be able to say that.

gaelsboy (Leitrim) - Posts: 534 - 12/06/2024 11:01:26    2550977

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Replying To 3rdmidfielder:  "100% a lot of counties are in a competition they don't have a chance to win. Spending crazy money, club championships delayed. Attendances down, football has never been more unwatchable and people are losing interest.

Hopefully these new rules that are proposed work. I think some will definitely help.

Then they need to sort out the format!!"
Why do people want a games organisation to have damn all games?

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1795 - 12/06/2024 11:49:33    2550987

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "The same can be said of the All Ireland championship as well… About 10 teams in these ridiculous groups spending vast sums of money preparing for nothing as they have absolutely no chance of success… Far too many pointless games"
I agree, there is millions being spent in the top counties, in counties like mayo who haven't an all ireland in 60+ years; no disrespect to mayo . There're not on yheir own. There're about five teams who realistically can win an all ireland currently and that's bern optimistic. Before splitting the tailteann cup in two, maybe the gaa should answer the question: what has three tiers done for hurling in ireland? I'd say very little. I think there is an agenda in the gaa to squeeze out the weaker counties entirely. Part of the reason gaelic games have lost its appeal apart from style of play is boredom with watching the same counties play one another multiple times in a calendar year with no jeopardy until the quarter final but who is brave enough in the media to raise this point?

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1977 - 12/06/2024 16:13:46    2551043

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "I agree, there is millions being spent in the top counties, in counties like mayo who haven't an all ireland in 60+ years; no disrespect to mayo . There're not on yheir own. There're about five teams who realistically can win an all ireland currently and that's bern optimistic. Before splitting the tailteann cup in two, maybe the gaa should answer the question: what has three tiers done for hurling in ireland? I'd say very little. I think there is an agenda in the gaa to squeeze out the weaker counties entirely. Part of the reason gaelic games have lost its appeal apart from style of play is boredom with watching the same counties play one another multiple times in a calendar year with no jeopardy until the quarter final but who is brave enough in the media to raise this point?"
5 Munster Counties play each other very regularly, sometimes 3 or 4 times in a year.
Crowds have bever been bigger.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1795 - 12/06/2024 17:25:01    2551058

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Replying To gaelsboy:  "I think 3 tiers could solve some of the mismatches, but London New York and Waterford did not look a bit out of place in this years competition, fact is some teams are gonna make a go of it and others are not. Plus teams will never improve if they never get a chance to play teams slight above them, it is only the provincials were Div1 are pitted against Div4. So really I think it cannot change much. Lots of counties would love to be able to say they deserve a place in the SM due to league position, I do not know when, if ever, Leitrim would be able to say that."
The Sam Maguire has teams as well that haven't a hope of winning it. It will always be thus but at least for both Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup the group stages give teams multiple games and not just one qualifier where they were often hammered and left dejected.

Jazzyjeff (Derry) - Posts: 206 - 12/06/2024 18:47:05    2551072

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Replying To Jazzyjeff:  "
Replying To gaelsboy:  "I think 3 tiers could solve some of the mismatches, but London New York and Waterford did not look a bit out of place in this years competition, fact is some teams are gonna make a go of it and others are not. Plus teams will never improve if they never get a chance to play teams slight above them, it is only the provincials were Div1 are pitted against Div4. So really I think it cannot change much. Lots of counties would love to be able to say they deserve a place in the SM due to league position, I do not know when, if ever, Leitrim would be able to say that."
The Sam Maguire has teams as well that haven't a hope of winning it. It will always be thus but at least for both Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup the group stages give teams multiple games and not just one qualifier where they were often hammered and left dejected."
So in our case you think it's all right to get 2 hammerings and be left dejected…?

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 2680 - 12/06/2024 21:56:41    2551089

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