National Forum

Football Format Changes Discussion

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To legendzxix:  "... but within the current format if that was your brief from GAA HQ?"
I guess I thought "current format" meant a minor change - ultimately, "current format" strictly allows me to change nothing, making the question either redundant or madly circular/ mouse on a treadmill, like - don't worry, I'm still going :)
Long way to say I'm now lost - what can change - dates only?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2664 - 12/03/2024 17:53:52    2530941

Link

Replying To legendzxix:  "Currently all counties have 7 games before championship. A higher division gives more competitive games before championship. The league is balanced to be fair.
The provincial championships are a bit random. The league would actually help provincial championships if they used it for seeding. The current system of some provinces having lopsided draws, offering some counties an easy route to qualify as a provincial runner-up is flawed. The GAA have another conundrum in trying to offer meaningful reward for winning the provincial championship."
League balance, Provs random, seed Provs needed, qualifying Prov RU flawed and conundrum with Prov Champs are all valid and well known.

Bake everything together - everyone plays mixed-quality Provs into mixed-quality qualifying league phase toward the KO AIC.

It would be fair - even if you don't like it - and you could make the game count what you want.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2664 - 12/03/2024 18:15:29    2530942

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "7 games are too many for the warm up competition.

In terms of what to do about the provincials. I'm not sure.

The current situation where they are dumped into the season and not given a good amount of time to be played off is a problem and it actually can only be solved by trimming out some of the games. Fewer games overall but make the remaining games impactful.

A few years ago people were talking about flipping the season and I'd think that'd be worth exploring.

So you'd have a secondary competition that would look like the qualifier championship. Teams would play in their provincial championship with winners joining 4 qualifiers in an All Ireland cup quarterfinal.

The reward for winning your province is more competitive games much like how league promotion delivers that. I think you could play this off in 11 weeks.

The Championship is 2 groups of 8 with top 3 in each moving on to 6 team play offs.

This would take 15 weeks and you'd have a 2 week break between the All Ireland cup final and start of championship."
Split the difference between flip and no flip - with 2 Prov Rds booking ending the 7-game groups - and then onto the multi-tier AIC KO?

Keep all competitions, with 'double up' ties solving a lot of problems.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2664 - 12/03/2024 18:21:16    2530943

Link

Replying To legendzxix:  "I don't disagree about 7 games being a lot. Reducing league games should be offset by increasing championship group games in any restructure. Hurling is going for divisions of 7. They could have gone for divisions of 6 on metric with two up and down but that wasn't a runner for whatever reason.
There is for and against retaining league finals. Division 1 and 2 finals have gotten good crowds. Eight counties are getting a day out in Croke Park. Tailteann semi-finals are in Croke Park so that can offset the removal of league finals.
If the league was pure league with no finals and used for seeding the provincial championships, there would be good continuity of 7 league games and then provincial knockout.
The league format is popular with players. If it was used as seeding for provincial championships, would they be against that?"
"....They could have gone for divisions of 6 on metric with two up and down but that wasn't a runner for whatever reason...."

My guess to your hurling league point above is that, they didn't want "Team 9" to stay down in consecutive seasons.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2664 - 12/03/2024 18:29:30    2530944

Link

I agree with Pat Spillane, I don't know what the answer is but rushing the inter county season the way it is now is no good for players or the promotion of the game in general,
the way it was mid summer you had the excitement of the provincial finals, then into August you had quarter finals/semi finals leading to the big build up to the All Ireland in September.
When other sports were in their off season it was the ideal time for Gaelic games to be centre stage.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2785 - 12/03/2024 18:51:46    2530947

Link

Replying To omahant:  "I guess I thought "current format" meant a minor change - ultimately, "current format" strictly allows me to change nothing, making the question either redundant or madly circular/ mouse on a treadmill, like - don't worry, I'm still going :)
Long way to say I'm now lost - what can change - dates only?"
That's about the size of it. 4 rounds of league, a break and then 4 more rounds including the finals. It's either that or completing the provincial championships over 5 weekends?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 12/03/2024 20:05:26    2530955

Link

Replying To omahant:  ""....They could have gone for divisions of 6 on metric with two up and down but that wasn't a runner for whatever reason...."

My guess to your hurling league point above is that, they didn't want "Team 9" to stay down in consecutive seasons."
That's probably the case. All the top 9 will only accept being outside of 1A for a year. It is up to teams 10 and 11 to try and upset the apple cart. In the history of GAA format change, it is not unknown for the wrong county to have the audacity to upset the great plans! ;-)

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 12/03/2024 20:10:06    2530958

Link

Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I agree with Pat Spillane, I don't know what the answer is but rushing the inter county season the way it is now is no good for players or the promotion of the game in general,
the way it was mid summer you had the excitement of the provincial finals, then into August you had quarter finals/semi finals leading to the big build up to the All Ireland in September.
When other sports were in their off season it was the ideal time for Gaelic games to be centre stage."
Who do you need to promote our games to? Our clubs do a very good job of promoting it where it needs it ie. in our own communities. Our game is an amateur sport and our clubs are our base. The only people not happy with the clubs having the field from August on are the armchair keyboard warriors. too lazy to head out to a club game.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 151 - 13/03/2024 00:04:28    2530976

Link

Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "Who do you need to promote our games to? Our clubs do a very good job of promoting it where it needs it ie. in our own communities. Our game is an amateur sport and our clubs are our base. The only people not happy with the clubs having the field from August on are the armchair keyboard warriors. too lazy to head out to a club game."
And media bucks who are only able to write about County games .

As for the promotion argument, aren't all the biggest inter Co games played in June/July when Soccer and Rugger have their off seasons.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1496 - 13/03/2024 09:00:22    2530988

Link

Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I agree with Pat Spillane, I don't know what the answer is but rushing the inter county season the way it is now is no good for players or the promotion of the game in general,
the way it was mid summer you had the excitement of the provincial finals, then into August you had quarter finals/semi finals leading to the big build up to the All Ireland in September.
When other sports were in their off season it was the ideal time for Gaelic games to be centre stage."
No good for players? So the fact that the vast majority of players club and county like the new format isn't good enough for you? Other sports isn't the problem. The problem is the GAA season spends Feb- June going through the motions before thing kick off at quarter finals. Time to merge league and championship fully.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7913 - 13/03/2024 09:52:25    2530997

Link

Replying To TheFlaker:  "No good for players? So the fact that the vast majority of players club and county like the new format isn't good enough for you? Other sports isn't the problem. The problem is the GAA season spends Feb- June going through the motions before thing kick off at quarter finals. Time to merge league and championship fully."
A half baked proposal to "flip" and merge them got a majority of the votes in Congress a few years ago (but not the required 60%).
I suspect there will be movement towards such a system in a few tears.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1496 - 13/03/2024 10:59:40    2531006

Link

Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "A half baked proposal to "flip" and merge them got a majority of the votes in Congress a few years ago (but not the required 60%).
I suspect there will be movement towards such a system in a few tears."
The league is a brilliant competition because teams are at the same level. Imagine a longer competition where every game matters from Feb- July/ August.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7913 - 13/03/2024 11:35:27    2531012

Link

Replying To legendzxix:  "That's probably the case. All the top 9 will only accept being outside of 1A for a year. It is up to teams 10 and 11 to try and upset the apple cart. In the history of GAA format change, it is not unknown for the wrong county to have the audacity to upset the great plans! ;-)"
Case in point - my Cork was relegated one year, but they then changed the hurling league format, so they stayed up instead.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2664 - 13/03/2024 17:36:35    2531056

Link

Replying To TheFlaker:  "The league is a brilliant competition because teams are at the same level. Imagine a longer competition where every game matters from Feb- July/ August."
Like 12:10:10, with Prov Champp ties either 'doubling up' as in div league games, or adding those out of div Prov ties into the league table. To balance things out, each team could play a total 12 games, with out of div games topping up to that total, whether Prov or non-Prov ties.
I think a 12-game season prior to AIC KO is the sweet spot.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2664 - 13/03/2024 18:10:20    2531057

Link

Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "A half baked proposal to "flip" and merge them got a majority of the votes in Congress a few years ago (but not the required 60%).
I suspect there will be movement towards such a system in a few tears."
The big flaw with the half baked proposal was that 6th to 8th in Division 1 were going to miss out on the All-Ireland. If that format came back on the table, the 4 provincial winners would have to be guaranteed an All-Ireland spot. From there include the Tailteann winner and top 11 league qualifiers. Job done.
As an incentive to be in the top 8 of 16, the top 4 could have home advantage against the second 4 in a Round 1A. The third 4 could have home advantage against the fourth 4 in a Round 1B. Round 1A winners would go direct to the quarter-finals. Round 1A losers with home advantage over Round 1B winners in Round 2.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 13/03/2024 21:10:26    2531066

Link

Replying To omahant:  "Like 12:10:10, with Prov Champp ties either 'doubling up' as in div league games, or adding those out of div Prov ties into the league table. To balance things out, each team could play a total 12 games, with out of div games topping up to that total, whether Prov or non-Prov ties.
I think a 12-game season prior to AIC KO is the sweet spot."
The only reason this hasn't happened already is money. Provincial ties are not needed anymore. Not sure why it keeps being mentioned.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7913 - 13/03/2024 21:21:19    2531067

Link

Replying To legendzxix:  "The big flaw with the half baked proposal was that 6th to 8th in Division 1 were going to miss out on the All-Ireland. If that format came back on the table, the 4 provincial winners would have to be guaranteed an All-Ireland spot. From there include the Tailteann winner and top 11 league qualifiers. Job done.
As an incentive to be in the top 8 of 16, the top 4 could have home advantage against the second 4 in a Round 1A. The third 4 could have home advantage against the fourth 4 in a Round 1B. Round 1A winners would go direct to the quarter-finals. Round 1A losers with home advantage over Round 1B winners in Round 2."
What a load of nonsense we have a perfect system now,whether by accident or design.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 151 - 13/03/2024 21:57:54    2531070

Link

Replying To TheFlaker:  "No good for players? So the fact that the vast majority of players club and county like the new format isn't good enough for you? Other sports isn't the problem. The problem is the GAA season spends Feb- June going through the motions before thing kick off at quarter finals. Time to merge league and championship fully."
Didn't Jack O'Connor just say that players are pulling hamstrings like guitar strings? there's too much pressure on them in too short a time frame, they are amateur players after all, that's why I say it's no good for players. pick up any fairly serious injury and your intercounty season is gone cause there is no chance to recover because the season is so compact. In the past these lads would have had time to get back.
Like I said I don't know what the answer is, but something major has been lost by the split season format, the big shop window for intercounty football seems to me to be rushed and undervalued,
but I suppose it also frees up Croke Park for late Summer concerts, so that will keep the money men happy.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2785 - 13/03/2024 22:50:40    2531077

Link

Replying To legendzxix:  "The big flaw with the half baked proposal was that 6th to 8th in Division 1 were going to miss out on the All-Ireland. If that format came back on the table, the 4 provincial winners would have to be guaranteed an All-Ireland spot. From there include the Tailteann winner and top 11 league qualifiers. Job done.
As an incentive to be in the top 8 of 16, the top 4 could have home advantage against the second 4 in a Round 1A. The third 4 could have home advantage against the fourth 4 in a Round 1B. Round 1A winners would go direct to the quarter-finals. Round 1A losers with home advantage over Round 1B winners in Round 2."
I do like the top half with a double chance and the bottom half KO - like Aussie AFL and the current AI SHC (Prov Finals double chance, 3rds v McDonagh KO).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2664 - 14/03/2024 00:57:35    2531079

Link

Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "What a load of nonsense we have a perfect system now,whether by accident or design."
He is only entertaining the idea that if the old "Proposal B" was tabled again, this would be a better solution to the prior flaw in leaving "team 6" out of the AIC KO.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2664 - 14/03/2024 01:03:25    2531080

Link