National Forum

Medals V All Stars

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During tonight's league Brendan Cummins commented that Patrick Horgan would gladly hand back his 4 All-Stars for an All-Ireland medal. I wonder would everyone feel the same.4-time All-Stars are much rarer than All-Ireland medalists. Is it not a greater achievement? I don't think modern players would be allowed admit thinking like that. But later on in life after a career is ended what would think. Obviously soccer is a different sport but people like Puskas, Cruyff, Van Basten are legends of the international game and never won a world cup. I think a little snobbery towards individual awards has crept into the GAA.

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 769 - 10/02/2024 22:06:17    2525390

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "During tonight's league Brendan Cummins commented that Patrick Horgan would gladly hand back his 4 All-Stars for an All-Ireland medal. I wonder would everyone feel the same.4-time All-Stars are much rarer than All-Ireland medalists. Is it not a greater achievement? I don't think modern players would be allowed admit thinking like that. But later on in life after a career is ended what would think. Obviously soccer is a different sport but people like Puskas, Cruyff, Van Basten are legends of the international game and never won a world cup. I think a little snobbery towards individual awards has crept into the GAA."
A Kerry player of the Micko era was once asked how many All Stars he had - 4/5/6 I'd say - and he said he had no idea!

This was taken to be arrogant - chap is certainly not - and I'd say it was completely genuine.

I actually think its a bit sad when you see a player commentating or punditing and the blurb is "2 All Stars" :-)

They are no way comparable to winning a competition. I'd imagine a county is of greater value to some of the recipients.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2721 - 10/02/2024 22:28:02    2525394

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "During tonight's league Brendan Cummins commented that Patrick Horgan would gladly hand back his 4 All-Stars for an All-Ireland medal. I wonder would everyone feel the same.4-time All-Stars are much rarer than All-Ireland medalists. Is it not a greater achievement? I don't think modern players would be allowed admit thinking like that. But later on in life after a career is ended what would think. Obviously soccer is a different sport but people like Puskas, Cruyff, Van Basten are legends of the international game and never won a world cup. I think a little snobbery towards individual awards has crept into the GAA."
An All Ireland medal is the pinnacle of ones career. No one will remember how many All Stars you have but they'll remember you for the All Ireland you won. That's the truth.

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 854 - 10/02/2024 22:59:50    2525404

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "A Kerry player of the Micko era was once asked how many All Stars he had - 4/5/6 I'd say - and he said he had no idea!

This was taken to be arrogant - chap is certainly not - and I'd say it was completely genuine.

I actually think its a bit sad when you see a player commentating or punditing and the blurb is "2 All Stars" :-)

They are no way comparable to winning a competition. I'd imagine a county is of greater value to some of the recipients."
I'm going to guess that a lot of the All-Star blurbs are for people who have won very few All-Irelands/provincials if at all, or maybe also pundits who have had an All-Ireland/provincial blurb earlier on in the programme. I don't think it's sad at all; it's nice that someone has bothered to look up something about your achievements and place them after your name in front of thousands of viewers. It means you're not just some mouth on the screen who thinks he knows something; you're someone whose put in the hard yards back in the day and has something to show for it, even if it is just the recognition of your peers and not a championship medal.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1065 - 11/02/2024 01:21:36    2525410

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Replying To Square_B:  "An All Ireland medal is the pinnacle of ones career. No one will remember how many All Stars you have but they'll remember you for the All Ireland you won. That's the truth."
Plenty of good players are remembered for winning All Stars who didn't win the All Ireland.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3369 - 11/02/2024 02:25:27    2525411

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Replying To Square_B:  "An All Ireland medal is the pinnacle of ones career. No one will remember how many All Stars you have but they'll remember you for the All Ireland you won. That's the truth."
I lived in Kerry many years ago now, where you have probably more AI senior medals than in other county. The joke being that you'd get one back in your change if you weren't careful after buying a pint.

Anyway my years in Kerry made me aware that it is only AI medals that really count down there!

There's a quiz question, goes like: name the two Kerrymen who have won AS awards but no AI medal?

Ye probably know the answer!

One of those happened while I was in Kerry. In the words of an old very respected ex-AI winner (God rest him now): "Sure that's nice but until he walks up those steps, he'll never be counted in this town!

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1961 - 11/02/2024 02:39:35    2525412

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "During tonight's league Brendan Cummins commented that Patrick Horgan would gladly hand back his 4 All-Stars for an All-Ireland medal. I wonder would everyone feel the same.4-time All-Stars are much rarer than All-Ireland medalists. Is it not a greater achievement? I don't think modern players would be allowed admit thinking like that. But later on in life after a career is ended what would think. Obviously soccer is a different sport but people like Puskas, Cruyff, Van Basten are legends of the international game and never won a world cup. I think a little snobbery towards individual awards has crept into the GAA."
Hoggy exhibited his remarkable tendency to miss easy chances in the clutch, again last night. Dare I say, he'd have more medals, perhaps another all-star, perhaps even that elusive all-ireland medal, if this was not the case.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3546 - 11/02/2024 07:34:43    2525416

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I don't think that's true Square B. Following that logic, the likes of John Mullane, Lee Keegan, Johnny Doyle etc. won't be remembered as greats of the game because they haven't won an All Ireland. But these are the people they will make Laochra Gael episodes about.

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 769 - 11/02/2024 08:15:24    2525417

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Not possible to definitely say that one is better than the other. One is team based and the other is individual based. If you come from Kerry or Dublin you might argue that All Ireland medals are better. However were Cian Newcombe, Cian Murphy and Sean MacMahon who won All Ireland medals with Dublin last year, better footballers and achieved more than Dermot Early and Lee Keegan? Did they achieve more last year than Roscommons Enda Smith? It depends on your perspective and possible bias. (Including mine!)

letsgetgoing (Roscommon) - Posts: 543 - 11/02/2024 12:04:44    2525440

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Replying To letsgetgoing:  "Not possible to definitely say that one is better than the other. One is team based and the other is individual based. If you come from Kerry or Dublin you might argue that All Ireland medals are better. However were Cian Newcombe, Cian Murphy and Sean MacMahon who won All Ireland medals with Dublin last year, better footballers and achieved more than Dermot Early and Lee Keegan? Did they achieve more last year than Roscommons Enda Smith? It depends on your perspective and possible bias. (Including mine!)"
I think you make very sensible points there. The thing is, winning an All-Ireland is completely outside your control as an individual. A player in a successful county might have a poor year by their standards, pick up a medal, but not feel satisfaction due to their assessment of their own performances.
An All Star by contrast, is an indication that you have achieved excellence and done as much as you could possibly do to help your county achieve their goals.

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 769 - 11/02/2024 12:55:04    2525442

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "I think you make very sensible points there. The thing is, winning an All-Ireland is completely outside your control as an individual. A player in a successful county might have a poor year by their standards, pick up a medal, but not feel satisfaction due to their assessment of their own performances.
An All Star by contrast, is an indication that you have achieved excellence and done as much as you could possibly do to help your county achieve their goals."
But the reality is that they are team games and the ultimate is winning with your team-mates. It's great to see players from counties who are unlikely to win an A.I getting recognised but it often smacks of tokenism. The fact that for example Kevin McMenamon won 8 crosses but never got an all star to me diminishes these awards. Kevin was hugely instrumental in most of those campaigns and was absolutely key in some. But the selectors were blind to the fact that the Dubs kept one of their aces other bench strategically.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 691 - 11/02/2024 14:39:06    2525454

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Something I notice in discussions is how a player will be painted as inferior if he doesn't have All Ireland medals. The reality is that there are players with All Ireland medals who sat on the bench all season. For example Chrissy McKaigue may retire without an All Ireland, does this mean the Glen subs who didn't play all year were better players than him? No.

PattyONeill (Derry) - Posts: 227 - 11/02/2024 14:47:05    2525456

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "Hoggy exhibited his remarkable tendency to miss easy chances in the clutch, again last night. Dare I say, he'd have more medals, perhaps another all-star, perhaps even that elusive all-ireland medal, if this was not the case."
Looked like there was bad shooting from both sides, especially in second half but Cork definitely the main culprits. Often a tricky wind down there this time of the year so perhaps that was a factor?

Kilkenny looking good to secure place in top next year with two hammerings to come. Be tight for the other spots. Wexford might rue not beating Offaly, Will need to beat at least one Clare, Cork and Waterford now.

No offence meant to Offaly who are definitely on upward curve, The younger lads seem to be fitting in well.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2721 - 11/02/2024 15:29:55    2525459

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Replying To sligo joe:  "But the reality is that they are team games and the ultimate is winning with your team-mates. It's great to see players from counties who are unlikely to win an A.I getting recognised but it often smacks of tokenism. The fact that for example Kevin McMenamon won 8 crosses but never got an all star to me diminishes these awards. Kevin was hugely instrumental in most of those campaigns and was absolutely key in some. But the selectors were blind to the fact that the Dubs kept one of their aces other bench strategically."
Kevin Mc was a superb player and its hard to believe he never won an All Star. However the opposite is often true where an incredible talent from a weaker county gets overlooked. From 2004 to 2006 Ross Munnelly was in the top five forwards in the country but missed out because Laois failed to make it past the quarter finals. I suppose to highlight again my original post, I didn't say that an All Ireland is equal to an All Star, but becoming a four time All Star is incredibly more difficult to achieve than picking up an All Ireland medal, and is a testament to a player's consistent excellence over time.

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 769 - 11/02/2024 18:48:04    2525501

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Replying To letsgetgoing:  "Not possible to definitely say that one is better than the other. One is team based and the other is individual based. If you come from Kerry or Dublin you might argue that All Ireland medals are better. However were Cian Newcombe, Cian Murphy and Sean MacMahon who won All Ireland medals with Dublin last year, better footballers and achieved more than Dermot Early and Lee Keegan? Did they achieve more last year than Roscommons Enda Smith? It depends on your perspective and possible bias. (Including mine!)"
Problem there is the team that wins the all Ireland in any given year is the all Ireland winning team of that year. There are no set criteria attached to the all stars, they are just the opinion of a small group of people these days, journalists, no more or less than that. If they were elected by every intercounty player, like I think they used to be?, they would mean more. Hurler and Footballer of the year are elected by the players.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12425 - 11/02/2024 20:16:54    2525513

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Looked like there was bad shooting from both sides, especially in second half but Cork definitely the main culprits. Often a tricky wind down there this time of the year so perhaps that was a factor?

Kilkenny looking good to secure place in top next year with two hammerings to come. Be tight for the other spots. Wexford might rue not beating Offaly, Will need to beat at least one Clare, Cork and Waterford now.

No offence meant to Offaly who are definitely on upward curve, The younger lads seem to be fitting in well."
We were going to have to beat at least 1 of those 3 anyway to finish in the top 3. We beat 2 of those 3 in the League year before last and should've beaten Cork last year also. We drew with Waterford in a challenge game a few weeks ago I don't think we are terrified of going to Walsh Park either. If we win the Cork game we will definitely finish above them on head to head. Really it's still too early to work out all the permutations.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12425 - 11/02/2024 20:23:53    2525516

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "Kevin Mc was a superb player and its hard to believe he never won an All Star. However the opposite is often true where an incredible talent from a weaker county gets overlooked. From 2004 to 2006 Ross Munnelly was in the top five forwards in the country but missed out because Laois failed to make it past the quarter finals. I suppose to highlight again my original post, I didn't say that an All Ireland is equal to an All Star, but becoming a four time All Star is incredibly more difficult to achieve than picking up an All Ireland medal, and is a testament to a player's consistent excellence over time."
You make my point really, the All Ireland medal winners have generally (maybe not always) been the best team in a team sport that year. As you infer the all stars are shared out between the winners and runners up with maybe 3 or four others, never even close to the best 15.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 691 - 12/02/2024 08:42:53    2525560

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "Hoggy exhibited his remarkable tendency to miss easy chances in the clutch, again last night. Dare I say, he'd have more medals, perhaps another all-star, perhaps even that elusive all-ireland medal, if this was not the case."
Correct

McFan88 (Limerick) - Posts: 447 - 12/02/2024 09:34:17    2525574

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An All Ireland medal is much better than an All star but All Stars are a nice award too.There are players that will never win All Irelands but can win All stars while also there are players with All Ireland medals that would not even come near an All Star .The All stars are supposedly for the players who are best over the year while a player might win an All Ireland medal on a top team but only play 5minutes football all year.However my choice would be an All Ireland medal.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3702 - 12/02/2024 12:32:41    2525627

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "An All Ireland medal is much better than an All star but All Stars are a nice award too.There are players that will never win All Irelands but can win All stars while also there are players with All Ireland medals that would not even come near an All Star .The All stars are supposedly for the players who are best over the year while a player might win an All Ireland medal on a top team but only play 5minutes football all year.However my choice would be an All Ireland medal."
Put simply

An All-Star award is either the icing on the cake or a consolation prize - depending on who wins the All-Ireland.

bruffgael (Limerick) - Posts: 157 - 14/02/2024 12:47:08    2526019

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