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Interestingly enough we'd a blitz recently at under 8 attended by rathnure, Anne's, Martin's, raps and Glynn barntown. One club that had and a and b. Every other club mixed the groups.
The result was close contests everywhere except one pitch. The young lads didn't want to go to the only A team then because they hammered everyone.
We do take the strongest lads for the winter in Joseph's for indoor hurling and it seems to make a massive difference to them.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3142 - 01/07/2024 10:48:54
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Likewise involved with a couple of underage teams and even with my level of interest we struggle to get much hurling/football done at home with work and general life. Modern life is tough for many parents and I know I for one often feel guilty or inadequate about things from homework to just spending time with them so I would caution putting too much pressure or blaming parents. A system that is based on an unrealistic exception will fail plus given many clubs struggle for number and will experience a drop off over the years it imperative that anything we do is designed to develop AND retain players . I as much as anyone here want to see intercounty success but this has be build on a healthy (in all senses) club scene so we must not lose sight of one thing, these are games and game should be FUN.
I think we need metrics for skill progression - a clear programme of skills that players should attain within a 2 year window.
Other metrics should be around player retention and parenteral satisfaction. Its a competitive landscape, especially for the best/most natural players.
wexford2012 (Wexford) - Posts: 88 - 01/07/2024 11:55:54
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Replying To Formertownie: "I m involved with underage teams . Most dual clubs possibly 80% will concentrate mostly on hurling . At least 2 to 1 sessions wise dome even more the morectrafitionsl hurling clubs plus some if rhe bigger clubs that wee once football strongholds are leaning more towards hurling now .
No matter how often we preach it the boys they need to train every night we are out and have the hurl in their hands every day and practice outside trainingto improve their touch stiking etc only 10 to 20% of them would , 40% to 50% might every 2nd or third day the rest only at training and then only train 50% of the time . . Which can at times be really frustrating as a coach they can disrupt training and reduce the intensity and quality of a session . If anyone here thinks its acceptable to split them . Our hands are tied for obvious reasons . There can be a huge difference in the squad between fitness ,touch , skilll levels striking commitment and general interest . It's hard and frustrating at times to come up with sessions that will challenge all levels within the 2 year age groups . But we try. And will keep trying .
Is it the parents fault us it the child's fault is it the coaches fault . Is it the structures within the county , is there enough hurling fir them in the schools, club,,organised tournaments, skills based competitions, or is it all the above plus more ,
Where dies the love of hurling cone from .
From my experience the best hurlers In wexford are mostly the best sportsmen overall .
The problem We have to solve is hiw to raise the profile of hurling within the county to make it the number 1 choice rather than a back up sport where they only commit fully when in their teens where they may have missed out on the development of their touch due to other preferences in the age 7 to.13 /14
Identifying problems is a lot easier than solving them.
Definitely running skills based competions is one way where we set targets and benchmarks to improve their touch etc . But if training is sporadic and poorly attended any time we have good numbers we try get as much hurling in as possible. Over the winter would be ideal time for this . Barcthe problem of standing waiting . Possiblly indoor multi club skills tournaments might be an option.
Ideally I would love to give the players a skill every night they train t come back to next session and show hiw they gave improved it .
Can we put a love of hurling into a child or do they need to have it themselves . Certainly parents are the single biggest influence on a child's development .
Would a parent and child sessions in the early years be a good start whether they ever hurled or not .??. It might just spark their interest and realise how hard utbus to master the skills and that they need to spend a little time with their child outside training to help.their development." Very good post
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13853 - 01/07/2024 13:49:30
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Replying To tearintom: "And that is the key.
The amount of lads I know who think brinjgn kids to training once or twice a week is enough for them then wonder why other kids doing the opposite are passing them by as the years progress is unreal, and they usually end up complaining about favouritism or something.
And it's the same here, obsessing about trainings times etc etc. Of course it's important but it's what happens outside those training sessions that makes the difference, all the time." It certainly is. The point of more training sessions is to encourage lads to practice more at home and give them something to practice. Very little you can show a group of lads in only 2 1 hour hurling training sessions and only 2 1 hour football training sessions per month.
Even the half hour in house games we do after the hour of drills encourages them to try and get better to impress/keep up with their mates. Peer pressure can be a very positive influence!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13853 - 01/07/2024 13:53:03
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Replying To Formertownie: "I m involved with underage teams . Most dual clubs possibly 80% will concentrate mostly on hurling . At least 2 to 1 sessions wise dome even more the morectrafitionsl hurling clubs plus some if rhe bigger clubs that wee once football strongholds are leaning more towards hurling now .
No matter how often we preach it the boys they need to train every night we are out and have the hurl in their hands every day and practice outside trainingto improve their touch stiking etc only 10 to 20% of them would , 40% to 50% might every 2nd or third day the rest only at training and then only train 50% of the time . . Which can at times be really frustrating as a coach they can disrupt training and reduce the intensity and quality of a session . If anyone here thinks its acceptable to split them . Our hands are tied for obvious reasons . There can be a huge difference in the squad between fitness ,touch , skilll levels striking commitment and general interest . It's hard and frustrating at times to come up with sessions that will challenge all levels within the 2 year age groups . But we try. And will keep trying .
Is it the parents fault us it the child's fault is it the coaches fault . Is it the structures within the county , is there enough hurling fir them in the schools, club,,organised tournaments, skills based competitions, or is it all the above plus more ,
Where dies the love of hurling cone from .
From my experience the best hurlers In wexford are mostly the best sportsmen overall .
The problem We have to solve is hiw to raise the profile of hurling within the county to make it the number 1 choice rather than a back up sport where they only commit fully when in their teens where they may have missed out on the development of their touch due to other preferences in the age 7 to.13 /14
Identifying problems is a lot easier than solving them.
Definitely running skills based competions is one way where we set targets and benchmarks to improve their touch etc . But if training is sporadic and poorly attended any time we have good numbers we try get as much hurling in as possible. Over the winter would be ideal time for this . Barcthe problem of standing waiting . Possiblly indoor multi club skills tournaments might be an option.
Ideally I would love to give the players a skill every night they train t come back to next session and show hiw they gave improved it .
Can we put a love of hurling into a child or do they need to have it themselves . Certainly parents are the single biggest influence on a child's development .
Would a parent and child sessions in the early years be a good start whether they ever hurled or not .??. It might just spark their interest and realise how hard utbus to master the skills and that they need to spend a little time with their child outside training to help.their development." As regards the differing skill levels we get all our lads, 16 hurling 18 football, doing the same drills. Very visibly the weaker lads have practiced at home or down the grounds because they are far more able to do the drills than they were in February. Bottom line is this, you aren't going to win anything just concentrating on the best 7 or 8 lads. A team has 13 now, and 15 later, players.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13853 - 01/07/2024 13:56:02
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Replying To Doylerwex: "Interestingly enough we'd a blitz recently at under 8 attended by rathnure, Anne's, Martin's, raps and Glynn barntown. One club that had and a and b. Every other club mixed the groups.
The result was close contests everywhere except one pitch. The young lads didn't want to go to the only A team then because they hammered everyone.
We do take the strongest lads for the winter in Joseph's for indoor hurling and it seems to make a massive difference to them." Why not take all of them that want to go? Aren't you running the risk of leaving some potentially great lads behind purely because they were late starters or developers?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13853 - 01/07/2024 14:11:29
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Replying To wexford2012: "Likewise involved with a couple of underage teams and even with my level of interest we struggle to get much hurling/football done at home with work and general life. Modern life is tough for many parents and I know I for one often feel guilty or inadequate about things from homework to just spending time with them so I would caution putting too much pressure or blaming parents. A system that is based on an unrealistic exception will fail plus given many clubs struggle for number and will experience a drop off over the years it imperative that anything we do is designed to develop AND retain players . I as much as anyone here want to see intercounty success but this has be build on a healthy (in all senses) club scene so we must not lose sight of one thing, these are games and game should be FUN.
I think we need metrics for skill progression - a clear programme of skills that players should attain within a 2 year window.
Other metrics should be around player retention and parenteral satisfaction. Its a competitive landscape, especially for the best/most natural players." Think that's a great idea that there should be a clear plan set out of where players should get to skills wise. Maybe have an idea where a lad needs to be by the end of u8, and then u10 and u12. Like a target for managers and mentors at these age groups to aim for.
Obviously the games should be fun or lads especially at younger age groups won't take them up. But at the same time the games, and attempts to make them fun, should be based on what they are. Having lads doing activities in National School that are completely unrelated to the actual games of football and hurling can't be the way forwards. It's almost like false advertising.
Things that should be highlighted are a sense of friendship and belonging- team, parish, community. The traditional values.
And as regards parents the benefits of the above for their children in terms of personal development in general going forwards should be emphasised more.
My eldest son was a late starter on account of covid and having parents who don't come from a GAA background, tbh I only learnt how to pick up and strike a sliotar at the same time as he did when he was turning 9 at u9, but the difference in him as regards relating to friends and feeling happier in himself is absolutely amazing.
Obviously another benefit that needs to be highlighted is the physical side, especially in this technological age we now live in. Being outside and active with your friends is far better for your kids health, mental and physical, than beating 7 shades of #### out of their mates on Fortnight.
And an incentive for parents to get more involved in coaching and mentoring is building a closer bond with your children by spending more quality time with them while being active, which would be good for your own health also. Maybe they should listen to the words of the song by Harry Chapin- "cats in the cradle".
And maybe your kids won't dump you in a home when you can't look after yourselves any more;-)
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13853 - 01/07/2024 14:31:38
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Replying To Viking66: "As regards the differing skill levels we get all our lads, 16 hurling 18 football, doing the same drills. Very visibly the weaker lads have practiced at home or down the grounds because they are far more able to do the drills than they were in February. Bottom line is this, you aren't going to win anything just concentrating on the best 7 or 8 lads. A team has 13 now, and 15 later, players." I never meant splitting the groups or players I m just making the point the difference in ability can be detrimental to the development of others, the stronger players need a challenge weaker players need time and attention to develop if we dont challenge stronger players they wil lose interest and stagnate . . Tbh very few clubs have the number of coaches that can give their full attention to weaker lads solely which they need.
So it's one size fits all really that's why it's so important if a player wants to improve they have to do it themselves too outside training as well as at training .
Soon enough they will find out its a competitive world and as early as Rackard league if they are nt good enough they ll be sitting on the bench . Same as you won't be on a development squad or 2nd level team answers I don't have them . But clubs do the best work anyone at next level that feel that players are not up to the level they would like should come back snd start from scratch at early years instead of following the dollar and pass the blame backwards .
I would think that taking some of the weaker lads and working on them In small groups would be mor beneficial to them than small sided games based drills where they gey exposed znd very few touches but we hsve a responsibility to all abilities not just the weaker ones
But in the times we live in if you single out someone or group you just don't know how the parents will react . So now i will just step in and give specific advice on one to one basis duting drills or games giving praise when i see inprovement and encouragement when i see the effort and trying to improve .. I know this from personal experience regardless it would have been done solely for the benefit of the players .
I do find it hard to know sometimes what the best approach is . We at club level are always trying to keep players involved for all the above reasons u previously mentioned .
But we do have a competitive edge too maybe its the way we were brought through the system many years ago . Times have changed so have we . Tbh county is nt high on my priorities club is my sole focus and improving the standard my goal . We will never please everyone but we will give every one a chance and opportunity it's up to them what they want from it . Agai we feel guilt as much as anyone when the county doesn't compete and take partial blame too.
We ll keep trying and hope if will improve .
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 300 - 01/07/2024 16:00:27
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Replying To Viking66: "Think that's a great idea that there should be a clear plan set out of where players should get to skills wise. Maybe have an idea where a lad needs to be by the end of u8, and then u10 and u12. Like a target for managers and mentors at these age groups to aim for.
Obviously the games should be fun or lads especially at younger age groups won't take them up. But at the same time the games, and attempts to make them fun, should be based on what they are. Having lads doing activities in National School that are completely unrelated to the actual games of football and hurling can't be the way forwards. It's almost like false advertising.
Things that should be highlighted are a sense of friendship and belonging- team, parish, community. The traditional values.
And as regards parents the benefits of the above for their children in terms of personal development in general going forwards should be emphasised more.
My eldest son was a late starter on account of covid and having parents who don't come from a GAA background, tbh I only learnt how to pick up and strike a sliotar at the same time as he did when he was turning 9 at u9, but the difference in him as regards relating to friends and feeling happier in himself is absolutely amazing.
Obviously another benefit that needs to be highlighted is the physical side, especially in this technological age we now live in. Being outside and active with your friends is far better for your kids health, mental and physical, than beating 7 shades of #### out of their mates on Fortnight.
And an incentive for parents to get more involved in coaching and mentoring is building a closer bond with your children by spending more quality time with them while being active, which would be good for your own health also. Maybe they should listen to the words of the song by Harry Chapin- "cats in the cradle".
And maybe your kids won't dump you in a home when you can't look after yourselves any more;-)" Thank you for the thoughtful and very honest post.
wexford2012 (Wexford) - Posts: 88 - 01/07/2024 16:16:24
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Replying To Viking66: "Why not take all of them that want to go? Aren't you running the risk of leaving some potentially great lads behind purely because they were late starters or developers?" I agree Viking. The issue however is capacity constraints.
There's a limited number of spaces and also volunteers in winter time.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3142 - 01/07/2024 16:20:09
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Replying To Formertownie: "I never meant splitting the groups or players I m just making the point the difference in ability can be detrimental to the development of others, the stronger players need a challenge weaker players need time and attention to develop if we dont challenge stronger players they wil lose interest and stagnate . . Tbh very few clubs have the number of coaches that can give their full attention to weaker lads solely which they need.
So it's one size fits all really that's why it's so important if a player wants to improve they have to do it themselves too outside training as well as at training .
Soon enough they will find out its a competitive world and as early as Rackard league if they are nt good enough they ll be sitting on the bench . Same as you won't be on a development squad or 2nd level team answers I don't have them . But clubs do the best work anyone at next level that feel that players are not up to the level they would like should come back snd start from scratch at early years instead of following the dollar and pass the blame backwards .
I would think that taking some of the weaker lads and working on them In small groups would be mor beneficial to them than small sided games based drills where they gey exposed znd very few touches but we hsve a responsibility to all abilities not just the weaker ones
But in the times we live in if you single out someone or group you just don't know how the parents will react . So now i will just step in and give specific advice on one to one basis duting drills or games giving praise when i see inprovement and encouragement when i see the effort and trying to improve .. I know this from personal experience regardless it would have been done solely for the benefit of the players .
I do find it hard to know sometimes what the best approach is . We at club level are always trying to keep players involved for all the above reasons u previously mentioned .
But we do have a competitive edge too maybe its the way we were brought through the system many years ago . Times have changed so have we . Tbh county is nt high on my priorities club is my sole focus and improving the standard my goal . We will never please everyone but we will give every one a chance and opportunity it's up to them what they want from it . Agai we feel guilt as much as anyone when the county doesn't compete and take partial blame too.
We ll keep trying and hope if will improve ." "So it's one size fits all really that's why it's so important if a player wants to improve they have to do it themselves too outside training as well as at training ."
This is really important in most clubs in Wexford, who have approx 17-23 players. Especially taken in conjunction with your point about parents who think their child is being discriminated against if you run seperate drills. So we run the same drills for everyone at a level to suit the strongest players. We usually run them in 3 even groups so that 3 lads are racing against eachother each time. They all want to win their races. The weaker lads know then that they have to practice like mad between sessions so they can win their races next time. Or try to get closer. Be it soloing and striking and catching drills, straight pick up drills, straight catching overhand or underhand drills etc. Everything is timed and/or counted. With the few drills that get repeated every session all the boys improve from February to October. Was the same last year. They all do the same hooking, blocking and tackling drills also. Tbh some of the weaker lads are some of the best at this, or at least as good as the strongest lads. Not everyone is as fast as the fastest players, but again some of the weaker players are faster than some of the strongest players.
At the start of the year our manager who is also the main coach took some of the new lads coming up to the group to one side and gave them 1 on 1 striking drills, teaching them the footwork and techniques to strike the ball harder, and off their wrong side. Same as he did last year. My son was a late starter, but he told me a few weeks back that his ambition in life is to be able to strike the ball further than another of the lads, who is able to strike it nearly the length of an u12 pitch, 21 to 21 on an adult pitch. He practices his long striking any time we are down at the grounds, and before and after training too most nights. They have all improved by practicing at home or down at the pitches.
You can't make a lad practice at home, but you can create a team environment where they all want to, in order to catch up with, keep up with, or keep ahead of their mates in school.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13853 - 01/07/2024 18:17:17
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Replying To Doylerwex: "I agree Viking. The issue however is capacity constraints.
There's a limited number of spaces and also volunteers in winter time." Sorry Doyler I forgot which club you were with when I posted that. But if you asked who wanted to do it you would probably find that not all of them want to anyway. And if most did, then you will likely have more mentors too as some of their parents might help out if their son was involved.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13853 - 01/07/2024 18:21:49
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Something that I think every under-age club coach should do is at the end of each season, they should do up a report card for each player (Like one in school) with all the relevant skills, how good they are at them (A, B, C, D etc), and how they can improve their weaknesses
I have a feeling some under-agecoaches go through the motions, do the same old, same old, and lose sight of a long-term development plan rather than thinking outside the box and taking a long-term view as to the development of their players
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 353 - 01/07/2024 19:04:19
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "Something that I think every under-age club coach should do is at the end of each season, they should do up a report card for each player (Like one in school) with all the relevant skills, how good they are at them (A, B, C, D etc), and how they can improve their weaknesses
I have a feeling some under-agecoaches go through the motions, do the same old, same old, and lose sight of a long-term development plan rather than thinking outside the box and taking a long-term view as to the development of their players" For sure. Then you have some of those lads who know it all and won't let anyone else point out how things might be done differently/better. "It's my team" kind of attitude.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13853 - 01/07/2024 21:12:49
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Replying To Viking66: "For sure. Then you have some of those lads who know it all and won't let anyone else point out how things might be done differently/better. "It's my team" kind of attitude." I'd say most underage coaches are only in it cos their own kid is on the team and they'd baulk at the idea of writing any sort of report card for little Jonny. There's 60 kids in the club I'm involved in no chance anyone is writing report cards there.
Like school it always seems the parents pass on responsibility. The parent or siblings shoukd be the one working with their own kids to improve but here is the sickener.....most parents don't want to do that.
Until we don't get kids to practice by themselves at home then we are going nowhere that's why I always thought having skills challenges or blitzes every so often or especially when season is out is a great idea but like everything depends on volunteers largely but also on drive from people in paid positions and we do have a few of those.
Imagine kids practicing whatever free taking or roll lift challenge in 30 seconds all through the break knowing there will be challenge against other clubs I guarantee you it would motivate them a bit anyway. But we have people in paid positions to come up with all these scenarios and let's be honest are they doing a great job or just an OK job?
When I hear the season goes from May to October then I completely understand children putting the hurls away and watching the Premier league.
It doesn't paint a good picture really does it
WEXILE (Wexford) - Posts: 311 - 03/07/2024 12:01:25
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "Something that I think every under-age club coach should do is at the end of each season, they should do up a report card for each player (Like one in school) with all the relevant skills, how good they are at them (A, B, C, D etc), and how they can improve their weaknesses
I have a feeling some under-agecoaches go through the motions, do the same old, same old, and lose sight of a long-term development plan rather than thinking outside the box and taking a long-term view as to the development of their players" The bigger problem there is you'll have a parent (who treat any underage training set-up as a free babysitting service to begin with) taking issue if their little tyke is given a poor grade.
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1455 - 03/07/2024 12:48:05
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Replying To WEXILE: "I'd say most underage coaches are only in it cos their own kid is on the team and they'd baulk at the idea of writing any sort of report card for little Jonny. There's 60 kids in the club I'm involved in no chance anyone is writing report cards there.
Like school it always seems the parents pass on responsibility. The parent or siblings shoukd be the one working with their own kids to improve but here is the sickener.....most parents don't want to do that.
Until we don't get kids to practice by themselves at home then we are going nowhere that's why I always thought having skills challenges or blitzes every so often or especially when season is out is a great idea but like everything depends on volunteers largely but also on drive from people in paid positions and we do have a few of those.
Imagine kids practicing whatever free taking or roll lift challenge in 30 seconds all through the break knowing there will be challenge against other clubs I guarantee you it would motivate them a bit anyway. But we have people in paid positions to come up with all these scenarios and let's be honest are they doing a great job or just an OK job?
When I hear the season goes from May to October then I completely understand children putting the hurls away and watching the Premier league.
It doesn't paint a good picture really does it" This is why I have for years said Wexford need to have really good winter facilities and winter leagues, 7-a-side leagues, etc at all grades across Wexford. At present, the hurling league isn't very good and the hurling championship is run off in a whistle stop albeit it is different this year. So all the action is from May-October.
The key in Wexford both from developing players to player retention is making hurling and Gaelic football year round games. Not just in the summer. It is hard to tell a 10-12 year old to practice his hurling in December when they can retort the next game is months away.
The big winner from the GAA season is soccer and rugby in particular.
I still play 5-a-side soccer in all manner of cold and wet weather because the astro is good, the weather does not bother me. If I was 10 years younger, I would 100% take part in a winter hurling league on a 4G pitch (even if they shorter games or some alternative format) and maybe it is unrealistic but Wexford need to keep those hurls in hands all year round to catch the top counties in my view.
And its not as if the current record at any level indicates what is happening in the county is fine.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1259 - 03/07/2024 13:52:55
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "This is why I have for years said Wexford need to have really good winter facilities and winter leagues, 7-a-side leagues, etc at all grades across Wexford. At present, the hurling league isn't very good and the hurling championship is run off in a whistle stop albeit it is different this year. So all the action is from May-October.
The key in Wexford both from developing players to player retention is making hurling and Gaelic football year round games. Not just in the summer. It is hard to tell a 10-12 year old to practice his hurling in December when they can retort the next game is months away.
The big winner from the GAA season is soccer and rugby in particular.
I still play 5-a-side soccer in all manner of cold and wet weather because the astro is good, the weather does not bother me. If I was 10 years younger, I would 100% take part in a winter hurling league on a 4G pitch (even if they shorter games or some alternative format) and maybe it is unrealistic but Wexford need to keep those hurls in hands all year round to catch the top counties in my view.
And its not as if the current record at any level indicates what is happening in the county is fine." Am I wrong, as a coach and parent to like a short break in Nov - Dec - Jan? I feel it allows you a little down time and for the enthusiasm to grow in you again. By the end of October I usually feel ready for it to be done.
wexford2012 (Wexford) - Posts: 88 - 03/07/2024 16:16:33
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Replying To beano: "The bigger problem there is you'll have a parent (who treat any underage training set-up as a free babysitting service to begin with) taking issue if their little tyke is given a poor grade." Maybe we should just do report cards for the development squads then
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 353 - 03/07/2024 18:38:28
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Replying To wexford2012: "Am I wrong, as a coach and parent to like a short break in Nov - Dec - Jan? I feel it allows you a little down time and for the enthusiasm to grow in you again. By the end of October I usually feel ready for it to be done." Think u hit the nail on the head there . Coaches are human too and like everyone else need a break to recharge. Train up the coaches in winter time f needs be but 12mths continuous training will mean some will walk away 9 to 10 mths is plenty .
possibly do something with the kids other than hurling football in those months . Any outdoor hurling in winter for young kids can be counter productive . The cold hands and limbs won't encourage them to keep coming and thats from experience . A break from mid november to mid feb is ideal . Wont harm them at all and maybe just encourage them to go to hurling wall or indoor facility if your club has them .
Schools shoukd be stepping in at these times .
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 300 - 03/07/2024 20:51:10
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