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Replying To tearintom: "Yep and they do tend to tidy up a lot of the proposals also, similar proposals grouped into one format for example.
I suspect also they will vote first on whether it's 2 groups of 6 or alternative, I expect 2 groups of 6 to be retained which automatically makes a lot of the motions moot.
I sincerely hope the motion for reducing the football championship to 8 teams is defeated also, it's a move that makes little sense for me." I think the proposal to restructure the football championship is ridiculous
if there is a gap in the levels it is between the top 3 senior teams and the rest so reducing the no at senior level wont change that. at intermediate level the standard is pretty even as is at Intermediate A (there was a bit of an anomoly there with Rosslare but they have gone back up.
bystanderbill (Wexford) - Posts: 45 - 10/01/2024 17:07:47
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Who would represent the coiste baniste group or hurling advisory group and is it allowed by rules for them to actually put in proposals/ motions or do they have to go through their clubs are these groups sanctioned by co board .
When clubs put motions in we can surmise the reasoning behind them and if on the best interest of that club or in actual championshop in general if you know what I mean.
but other groups (faceless to me anyway ) are they self serving or have an agenda in favour of hurling or football .
Or who can put in motion's or proposals .
Can group of players ie Co hurlers Co footballers etc put in proposals motions without going through club .
As I assume all of these groups committees individuals have to be Club members .
Surely it should be encouraged for some sort iof players group/groups be formed or advisory committee to have a say in what essentially is their sporting lives.
And should be listened too . Say 1 player from each adult team in a club meet up either as 4 districts or as full county . As if we are to belive some of rhe posts the majority of at least dual players actually preferred split season . In which the majority are dual players.
Surely should have as much say in the format as any advisory committe or more so . Yes they can have their say through their clubs but so can anyone on any of above committes or cccc pr county board.
Can't imagine too many players will be involved in the decisions by club committes . But if they were encouraged to form their own groups and actually think what's their best interest we may just stumble across something that may help retain them as players going forward . We live in a time of democracy where the majority of the people with vested interest possibly have the least input .
I know when I played we just went along with whatever was decided can't ever remember being consulted on any ideas . Or even if I did I probably would nt have engaged as would ve felt ye kniw better than me .
Players first is my point retention the game
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 301 - 10/01/2024 19:39:43
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Replying To Formertownie: "Who would represent the coiste baniste group or hurling advisory group and is it allowed by rules for them to actually put in proposals/ motions or do they have to go through their clubs are these groups sanctioned by co board .
When clubs put motions in we can surmise the reasoning behind them and if on the best interest of that club or in actual championshop in general if you know what I mean.
but other groups (faceless to me anyway ) are they self serving or have an agenda in favour of hurling or football .
Or who can put in motion's or proposals .
Can group of players ie Co hurlers Co footballers etc put in proposals motions without going through club .
As I assume all of these groups committees individuals have to be Club members .
Surely it should be encouraged for some sort iof players group/groups be formed or advisory committee to have a say in what essentially is their sporting lives.
And should be listened too . Say 1 player from each adult team in a club meet up either as 4 districts or as full county . As if we are to belive some of rhe posts the majority of at least dual players actually preferred split season . In which the majority are dual players.
Surely should have as much say in the format as any advisory committe or more so . Yes they can have their say through their clubs but so can anyone on any of above committes or cccc pr county board.
Can't imagine too many players will be involved in the decisions by club committes . But if they were encouraged to form their own groups and actually think what's their best interest we may just stumble across something that may help retain them as players going forward . We live in a time of democracy where the majority of the people with vested interest possibly have the least input .
I know when I played we just went along with whatever was decided can't ever remember being consulted on any ideas . Or even if I did I probably would nt have engaged as would ve felt ye kniw better than me .
Players first is my point retention the game" Agree 100% players should have more say. Some administrators get so caught up in the difficult financial side of things, and from first hand experience there's alot to it, that they can forget that as far as everyone else is concerned, players, adult and underage, managers, coaches, parents and supporters it's what happens on the pitch that is by far the most important thing.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 10/01/2024 21:14:25
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Replying To Viking66: "Agree about the football motion. I wonder are they planning 7 games for each club under that format? I bet they are planning 2 groups of 4 so that there are less football championship games played in the year." Bingo!
It's an anti-football idea. Nobody would want there to be just 8 teams, nobody that is who is interested in the welfare of football. Hopefully they have some sense and reject this one. Fewer football games to clutter the calendar. You'd really despair of the maliciousness of some of the hurling crowd.
icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2559 - 10/01/2024 23:02:42
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Replying To icehonesty: "Bingo!
It's an anti-football idea. Nobody would want there to be just 8 teams, nobody that is who is interested in the welfare of football. Hopefully they have some sense and reject this one. Fewer football games to clutter the calendar. You'd really despair of the maliciousness of some of the hurling crowd." Possibly is an anti football agenda . Surely they can see the numbers playing football must mean the majority want to play at as high a level as they can .
Players should have their say . And the people pushing any such agenda should be named and asked to explain fully their reasoning and be honest in their replies .
Not just an unknown collective in a group or committee putting in a motion and expect people not to read through the lines and their agenda .
Again the players should have the major say not just a token input.
Football in the largest urban area has 8 adult teams hurling 4 adult teams .
Football 1 senior 1 inter 1 inter A 1 junior 1 junior A 3junior b
Hurling 1 senior 1 junior 2 junior b
Teams on outskirts
Football 8
Hurling 9
Football 2 senior inc senior chsmps 1 inter 1 interA 1 junior 1 junor a 1 junior b
Hurling 3 senior 2 inter A 1 junior 1 junior a 2 junior b .
Thats 16 adult football
And only 13 Hurling in the largest urban area .
Maybe before they shoot gaa in the foot they should think a little more on the financial benefits from having large playing football numbers it has to benefit the county financially . If not let them all play soccer or rugby and going forward their children too
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 301 - 11/01/2024 07:57:47
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Replying To Formertownie: "Possibly is an anti football agenda . Surely they can see the numbers playing football must mean the majority want to play at as high a level as they can .
Players should have their say . And the people pushing any such agenda should be named and asked to explain fully their reasoning and be honest in their replies .
Not just an unknown collective in a group or committee putting in a motion and expect people not to read through the lines and their agenda .
Again the players should have the major say not just a token input.
Football in the largest urban area has 8 adult teams hurling 4 adult teams .
Football 1 senior 1 inter 1 inter A 1 junior 1 junior A 3junior b
Hurling 1 senior 1 junior 2 junior b
Teams on outskirts
Football 8
Hurling 9
Football 2 senior inc senior chsmps 1 inter 1 interA 1 junior 1 junor a 1 junior b
Hurling 3 senior 2 inter A 1 junior 1 junior a 2 junior b .
Thats 16 adult football
And only 13 Hurling in the largest urban area .
Maybe before they shoot gaa in the foot they should think a little more on the financial benefits from having large playing football numbers it has to benefit the county financially . If not let them all play soccer or rugby and going forward their children too" Just my opinion but I think it is a good idea. It is obvious from reading the document https://wexfordgaa.ie/wexford-gaa-in-2023/ that interest in football champiosnhip is dropping. Why would people go to the early games when you know who 6 of the quarter finalists are before championship starts.
wexfordwin (Wexford) - Posts: 186 - 11/01/2024 09:25:57
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Replying To icehonesty: "Bingo!
It's an anti-football idea. Nobody would want there to be just 8 teams, nobody that is who is interested in the welfare of football. Hopefully they have some sense and reject this one. Fewer football games to clutter the calendar. You'd really despair of the maliciousness of some of the hurling crowd." It definitely raises suspicions when you see the hurling advisory committee advocating for an extra round of hurling compared to football combined with a separate motion of a reduction of the football championships to teams of 8.
I believe also whilst there's a football advisory committee in place they weren't invited to offer any recommendations on championship structures.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1427 - 11/01/2024 09:47:48
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Replying To wexfordwin: "Just my opinion but I think it is a good idea. It is obvious from reading the document https://wexfordgaa.ie/wexford-gaa-in-2023/ that interest in football champiosnhip is dropping. Why would people go to the early games when you know who 6 of the quarter finalists are before championship starts." If you picked the 8 quarter finalists in hurling and football every year for the last 30 years you would probably get 6 of them in either code. Don't get me wrong I prefer a game of hurling to watch than football, but I still enjoy coaching and watching football too. And more importantly most players I know, adult and underage, like playing both.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 11/01/2024 10:05:54
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Replying To icehonesty: "Bingo!
It's an anti-football idea. Nobody would want there to be just 8 teams, nobody that is who is interested in the welfare of football. Hopefully they have some sense and reject this one. Fewer football games to clutter the calendar. You'd really despair of the maliciousness of some of the hurling crowd." An anti football biased idea from our rule-makers?? Never !!
As an aside, is the O Byrne cup semi being broadcast or streamed ?. I see where the hurling on Sunday is being streamed on clubber and also broadcast on South East Radio.
Yellaman (Wexford) - Posts: 126 - 11/01/2024 10:08:30
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Replying To Formertownie: "Who would represent the coiste baniste group or hurling advisory group and is it allowed by rules for them to actually put in proposals/ motions or do they have to go through their clubs are these groups sanctioned by co board .
When clubs put motions in we can surmise the reasoning behind them and if on the best interest of that club or in actual championshop in general if you know what I mean.
but other groups (faceless to me anyway ) are they self serving or have an agenda in favour of hurling or football .
Or who can put in motion's or proposals .
Can group of players ie Co hurlers Co footballers etc put in proposals motions without going through club .
As I assume all of these groups committees individuals have to be Club members .
Surely it should be encouraged for some sort iof players group/groups be formed or advisory committee to have a say in what essentially is their sporting lives.
And should be listened too . Say 1 player from each adult team in a club meet up either as 4 districts or as full county . As if we are to belive some of rhe posts the majority of at least dual players actually preferred split season . In which the majority are dual players.
Surely should have as much say in the format as any advisory committe or more so . Yes they can have their say through their clubs but so can anyone on any of above committes or cccc pr county board.
Can't imagine too many players will be involved in the decisions by club committes . But if they were encouraged to form their own groups and actually think what's their best interest we may just stumble across something that may help retain them as players going forward . We live in a time of democracy where the majority of the people with vested interest possibly have the least input .
I know when I played we just went along with whatever was decided can't ever remember being consulted on any ideas . Or even if I did I probably would nt have engaged as would ve felt ye kniw better than me .
Players first is my point retention the game" There's quite a bit going on in your post. I'll try answer as best I can while trying to keep things relatively short.
Coiste Bainisti (i.e. Management Committee) is the officers of the County Board - i.e. Chairman Michéal Martin and the rest. No secret who they are - they'd all be listed on the Wexford GAA website, for instance. And of course they're sanctioned by the County Board, since it's the County Board (i.e. the full Board - club delegates etc.) who elect them at Convention each year.
Hurling Advisory Committee currently includes Adrian Fenlon, Doc O'Connor, Liam Griffin, Niall Williams, and possibly one or two more. It and several other specialist sub-committees (including the Football Development Committee) are fully sanctioned by the full County Board too.
Of course they're allowed to bring motions, or else their motions wouldn't be on the agenda in the first place.
Who can put in motions? - certain county committees like the ones already mentioned and the CCCC; District Committees; and clubs.
There's currently no player representative group with the power or ability to submit motions. If players wanted to be able to do that - similar to what the GPA have done at national level with regard to submitting motions to Congress - I'd expect it would be open to them to explore it.
As it stands, the players' voices should be heard through their clubs. Very unfortunate if some clubs don't actually consult their players on such things, particularly since by rule, every club committee is supposed to have a Players Representative. And it can't be just some ould eejit who's just given that title, since the same rule states that the person must have played competitively for the club in the past two years.
I know that in my own club, our Players' Rep is currently canvassing the other players for views on things like split season and alternate blocks, ahead of a club committee meeting tomorrow night. We'll listen there to what he has to say, and our County Board Rep will vote next week in accordance with what our players want. Just as we've done for each of the past few years too.
Somewhat similarly, in the past, we've brought motions ourselves, based on suggestions put forward by players through the Players' Rep.
Again, unfortunate if some clubs don't engage with their players properly on such things. They're certainly encouraged to, and they certainly should do.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 11/01/2024 10:09:16
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Replying To icehonesty: "Bingo!
It's an anti-football idea. Nobody would want there to be just 8 teams, nobody that is who is interested in the welfare of football. Hopefully they have some sense and reject this one. Fewer football games to clutter the calendar. You'd really despair of the maliciousness of some of the hurling crowd." There's no other sporting entity like it for condemning other sports to deflect from the problems in their own.
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1455 - 11/01/2024 10:17:43
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Replying To icehonesty: "Bingo!
It's an anti-football idea. Nobody would want there to be just 8 teams, nobody that is who is interested in the welfare of football. Hopefully they have some sense and reject this one. Fewer football games to clutter the calendar. You'd really despair of the maliciousness of some of the hurling crowd." Won't go into all the sums on this as I've just written a long post, but if there were seven grades of eight teams each (split into two groups of four) - making a total of 56 teams competing - then there'd actually be more football games played overall than the current system of five grades of twelve teams each.
Or, if you mean fewer football games per club - two groups of four in an eight-team championship would have the same number of games per club as four groups of four in a 16-team championship. But yet people still sometimes argue here that we should go back up to 16 teams per grade, to try improve things.
Look, I think myself that the proposal to drop to eight teams per grade in football is a bad one. Chairman says it's based on how a gap has developed between the top three or four teams in senior and the rest, but I don't see how dropping to eight teams would by itself close that gap.
What I will say is that he put it in his discussion document before Christmas, in the hope it and everything else there would be discussed. He's getting his wish that way anyway!
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 11/01/2024 10:17:55
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Replying To Pikeman96: "There's quite a bit going on in your post. I'll try answer as best I can while trying to keep things relatively short.
Coiste Bainisti (i.e. Management Committee) is the officers of the County Board - i.e. Chairman Michéal Martin and the rest. No secret who they are - they'd all be listed on the Wexford GAA website, for instance. And of course they're sanctioned by the County Board, since it's the County Board (i.e. the full Board - club delegates etc.) who elect them at Convention each year.
Hurling Advisory Committee currently includes Adrian Fenlon, Doc O'Connor, Liam Griffin, Niall Williams, and possibly one or two more. It and several other specialist sub-committees (including the Football Development Committee) are fully sanctioned by the full County Board too.
Of course they're allowed to bring motions, or else their motions wouldn't be on the agenda in the first place.
Who can put in motions? - certain county committees like the ones already mentioned and the CCCC; District Committees; and clubs.
There's currently no player representative group with the power or ability to submit motions. If players wanted to be able to do that - similar to what the GPA have done at national level with regard to submitting motions to Congress - I'd expect it would be open to them to explore it.
As it stands, the players' voices should be heard through their clubs. Very unfortunate if some clubs don't actually consult their players on such things, particularly since by rule, every club committee is supposed to have a Players Representative. And it can't be just some ould eejit who's just given that title, since the same rule states that the person must have played competitively for the club in the past two years.
I know that in my own club, our Players' Rep is currently canvassing the other players for views on things like split season and alternate blocks, ahead of a club committee meeting tomorrow night. We'll listen there to what he has to say, and our County Board Rep will vote next week in accordance with what our players want. Just as we've done for each of the past few years too.
Somewhat similarly, in the past, we've brought motions ourselves, based on suggestions put forward by players through the Players' Rep.
Again, unfortunate if some clubs don't engage with their players properly on such things. They're certainly encouraged to, and they certainly should do." I think you're right.
If players voices aren't been heard in the club then that's solely the fault of the club.
We have the same set up with players reps sitting on the committee, I know we're not the same club but exactly the same thing is happening in our club in terms of players views.
If that's not happening in your club then blame your club.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1427 - 11/01/2024 10:23:31
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Replying To tearintom: "It definitely raises suspicions when you see the hurling advisory committee advocating for an extra round of hurling compared to football combined with a separate motion of a reduction of the football championships to teams of 8.
I believe also whilst there's a football advisory committee in place they weren't invited to offer any recommendations on championship structures." And one more post from me here now -
Hurling Advisory Committee would have no remit to propose a similar change for football. They're concerned with hurling only.
Football Committee could themselves have put in any motion they liked about how to run the football championship. Wouldn't be the case that they "weren't invited" to do so. They'd have got the same notice as everybody else involved about submitting motions and the deadline for doing so, and obviously they just chose not to.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 11/01/2024 10:24:41
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Replying To Yellaman: "An anti football biased idea from our rule-makers?? Never !!
As an aside, is the O Byrne cup semi being broadcast or streamed ?. I see where the hurling on Sunday is being streamed on clubber and also broadcast on South East Radio." Football is on clubber also.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 11/01/2024 10:25:38
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Replying To Yellaman: "An anti football biased idea from our rule-makers?? Never !!
As an aside, is the O Byrne cup semi being broadcast or streamed ?. I see where the hurling on Sunday is being streamed on clubber and also broadcast on South East Radio." Every Walsh Cup and O'Byrne Cup is streamed on Clubber including both of the footballers games so far. Football last Saturday was live on the radio and sounded like there planning the same this Saturday.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 11/01/2024 10:39:47
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Replying To Pikeman96: "There's quite a bit going on in your post. I'll try answer as best I can while trying to keep things relatively short.
Coiste Bainisti (i.e. Management Committee) is the officers of the County Board - i.e. Chairman Michéal Martin and the rest. No secret who they are - they'd all be listed on the Wexford GAA website, for instance. And of course they're sanctioned by the County Board, since it's the County Board (i.e. the full Board - club delegates etc.) who elect them at Convention each year.
Hurling Advisory Committee currently includes Adrian Fenlon, Doc O'Connor, Liam Griffin, Niall Williams, and possibly one or two more. It and several other specialist sub-committees (including the Football Development Committee) are fully sanctioned by the full County Board too.
Of course they're allowed to bring motions, or else their motions wouldn't be on the agenda in the first place.
Who can put in motions? - certain county committees like the ones already mentioned and the CCCC; District Committees; and clubs.
There's currently no player representative group with the power or ability to submit motions. If players wanted to be able to do that - similar to what the GPA have done at national level with regard to submitting motions to Congress - I'd expect it would be open to them to explore it.
As it stands, the players' voices should be heard through their clubs. Very unfortunate if some clubs don't actually consult their players on such things, particularly since by rule, every club committee is supposed to have a Players Representative. And it can't be just some ould eejit who's just given that title, since the same rule states that the person must have played competitively for the club in the past two years.
I know that in my own club, our Players' Rep is currently canvassing the other players for views on things like split season and alternate blocks, ahead of a club committee meeting tomorrow night. We'll listen there to what he has to say, and our County Board Rep will vote next week in accordance with what our players want. Just as we've done for each of the past few years too.
Somewhat similarly, in the past, we've brought motions ourselves, based on suggestions put forward by players through the Players' Rep.
Again, unfortunate if some clubs don't engage with their players properly on such things. They're certainly encouraged to, and they certainly should do." Thanks pikeman for answering some of those questions and i had an idea who may have been involved in the groups but was nt sure . Think one of nevilles could be on hurling group too.
Its great to hear your club will do what the players want or at least take it into consideration when deciding on which motions or motions to support my iwn club do the same but for some reason not all engage.
Maybe some club could put a motion in to get a group representative of club players only to get the real perspective of the players.
As full well u would know players won't really engage with club committes bar a small few . It does nt mean they don't care but their time is taken up representing and preparing for their club championships . Allthey want ro do is play but they really should think ,say and be heard what they want themselves
All I m saying the players are the ones all the co boards ,clubs , committees groups former players need to ensure we keep our national games strong and well represented .
Are all advisory groups etc putting the players first ahead of any personal preference or short term gains.
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 301 - 11/01/2024 10:40:48
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Replying To wexfordwin: "Just my opinion but I think it is a good idea. It is obvious from reading the document https://wexfordgaa.ie/wexford-gaa-in-2023/ that interest in football champiosnhip is dropping. Why would people go to the early games when you know who 6 of the quarter finalists are before championship starts." For the sane reason we follow the wexford hurlers and footballers every year . Be it in hope rather than anticipation .
And before yiu say anything I prefer to watch hurling ahead of football . But I also like watching football.
I ve seen as many bad hurling games as I ve seen bad football ones . As I seen probably more good hurling matches than football ones . But you don't know what you are going to get until its played.
I think there will be a gap developing in the hurling championship in not to distant future it has already begun . Traditional strongholds no longer hold the strings and will be cast into the wilderness if the same scenario panned our with same reasoning .
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 301 - 11/01/2024 10:59:57
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "Every Walsh Cup and O'Byrne Cup is streamed on Clubber including both of the footballers games so far. Football last Saturday was live on the radio and sounded like there planning the same this Saturday." Thanks for that, I only asked the question because it wasn't stated on the County board press release, they did point out that Sunday's hurling would be broadcast & streamed.
Yellaman (Wexford) - Posts: 126 - 11/01/2024 11:18:53
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Replying To Formertownie: "Thanks pikeman for answering some of those questions and i had an idea who may have been involved in the groups but was nt sure . Think one of nevilles could be on hurling group too.
Its great to hear your club will do what the players want or at least take it into consideration when deciding on which motions or motions to support my iwn club do the same but for some reason not all engage.
Maybe some club could put a motion in to get a group representative of club players only to get the real perspective of the players.
As full well u would know players won't really engage with club committes bar a small few . It does nt mean they don't care but their time is taken up representing and preparing for their club championships . Allthey want ro do is play but they really should think ,say and be heard what they want themselves
All I m saying the players are the ones all the co boards ,clubs , committees groups former players need to ensure we keep our national games strong and well represented .
Are all advisory groups etc putting the players first ahead of any personal preference or short term gains." But club players will vote generally on what's best for their club.
So what difference is it going to make them having their own group?
If a player doesn't engage within their own club then what's the odds theyre going to engage in some broader group?
The avenue is there for players to put their voice out there, if they choose not to that's on them, if the club don't engage with them, that's on the club.
If a player won't engage within his own club he isn't going to engage outside of it.
To be honest it takes more than just players to run a championship, should there be a committee of club manager/coaches, a committee of referees etc etc.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1427 - 11/01/2024 11:26:58
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