National Forum

Wexford Structures 2024

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To Pikeman96:  "That's my take on it too - i.e. the top grade of eight teams would be called Senior A, and the new grade of what would be the bottom four senior teams and the top four intermediate teams this year would be called Senior B.

That's really just semantics, though. The four clubs dropping to the second grade might still be in a grade called senior, but they'd know themselves that it's not "real" senior."
Exactly, it makes no sense to me if I'm being honest.

If anything if they wanted to change things I'd be going the other way and looking at increasing to 16 rather than decreasing.

I don't get the argument that there's a huge gap, for me the split season has made the gap more pronounced.

The senior football championship hasn't been retained by a team for nigh on 20 years and been split out I believe between 10 different clubs in 17 years. The hurling championship has been less competitive over the same timescale I believe.

Can't see this getting traction, great to see the split season gone mind.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1353 - 06/01/2024 12:05:03    2518605

Link

Replying To wexfordwin:  "Zinny, the proposal is to create Senior B no?

That's what I took from reading the document sent out before Xmas anyway"
I am only looking at the bulletin which gives no indication except what the proposal is. They have made a fanfare if the proposals.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1806 - 06/01/2024 14:59:26    2518632

Link

Replying To tearintom:  "Exactly, it makes no sense to me if I'm being honest.

If anything if they wanted to change things I'd be going the other way and looking at increasing to 16 rather than decreasing.

I don't get the argument that there's a huge gap, for me the split season has made the gap more pronounced.

The senior football championship hasn't been retained by a team for nigh on 20 years and been split out I believe between 10 different clubs in 17 years. The hurling championship has been less competitive over the same timescale I believe.

Can't see this getting traction, great to see the split season gone mind."
Why do you think the split season gone? It is the status quo. So until something is voted in to replace it it is still there. So if none of the proposed changes get a majority then we still have a split season.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12109 - 06/01/2024 16:51:26    2518655

Link

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/wexford-gaa-opts-to-abandon-its-own-club-split-season-policy/a1964279663.html

Talk about jumping the gun.......

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12109 - 06/01/2024 17:34:59    2518666

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/wexford-gaa-opts-to-abandon-its-own-club-split-season-policy/a1964279663.html

Talk about jumping the gun......."
What gun was jumped

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 06/01/2024 19:32:11    2518690

Link

Replying To Onfor15:  "What gun was jumped"
In response to this, and a few other posts by Viking above - yes, it's jumping the gun all right.

There might not have been any motions formally submitted to retain the split season with hurling first, but that doesn't automatically mean that it's gone. Can confirm what Viking says above - if all the proposals for change are defeated, then the status quo will remain, and we'll have split season with hurling first for at least one more year.

Basically, you don't need to win a vote to keep something that's already there. You need to win a vote to change it.

Bulletin says motions will be circulated to clubs on Monday. Will be interesting to see exactly what they are and how they're worded.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2256 - 06/01/2024 20:14:22    2518695

Link

Replying To Onfor15:  "What gun was jumped"
We haven't voted as to whether the split season is gone or not. Its possible the alternatives might not be voted in.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12109 - 06/01/2024 20:29:47    2518700

Link

Will the groups of 6 remain do we think?

Rosscountrt (Wexford) - Posts: 7 - 06/01/2024 21:39:14    2518714

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "We haven't voted as to whether the split season is gone or not. Its possible the alternatives might not be voted in."
There is no proposal to retain the split season

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 06/01/2024 23:28:44    2518732

Link

Replying To Onfor15:  "There is no proposal to retain the split season"
There doesn't have to be. There's never a proposal to retain the status quo in any votes. At Convention there wasn't when St Joseph's proposed to change whether minors could play adult or not. Or when Shels proposed lads could play for a lower team after already playing for a higher one that year.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12109 - 07/01/2024 02:20:54    2518741

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "There doesn't have to be. There's never a proposal to retain the status quo in any votes. At Convention there wasn't when St Joseph's proposed to change whether minors could play adult or not. Or when Shels proposed lads could play for a lower team after already playing for a higher one that year."
Thats simply not true, there are proposals sent in to leave as is but none were this year, from any club.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1353 - 07/01/2024 09:09:03    2518753

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "There doesn't have to be. There's never a proposal to retain the status quo in any votes. At Convention there wasn't when St Joseph's proposed to change whether minors could play adult or not. Or when Shels proposed lads could play for a lower team after already playing for a higher one that year."
There was 16 clubs last year who proposed exactly to retain the status quo, proposed no change so it's factually incorrect to say there's never a proposal to retain the status quo.

Technically I believe pikeman is right but one has to ask the question if there is going to such a glamour to retain the status quo that none of the proposals on the night receive sufficient backing then why did not one club put in a motion for no change?

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1353 - 07/01/2024 09:21:49    2518754

Link

Replying To tearintom:  "Thats simply not true, there are proposals sent in to leave as is but none were this year, from any club."
There might have been proposals sent in to retain the status quo last year but there didn't have to be.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12109 - 07/01/2024 11:58:42    2518783

Link

Replying To tearintom:  "There was 16 clubs last year who proposed exactly to retain the status quo, proposed no change so it's factually incorrect to say there's never a proposal to retain the status quo.

Technically I believe pikeman is right but one has to ask the question if there is going to such a glamour to retain the status quo that none of the proposals on the night receive sufficient backing then why did not one club put in a motion for no change?"
Because it is the status quo. There wasn't a time limit put on it when it was introduced. If it was the case that there needed to be a proposal put forward why is it there's never a proposal to run a hurling or football championship at all each year?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12109 - 07/01/2024 12:00:50    2518785

Link

Replying To tearintom:  "There was 16 clubs last year who proposed exactly to retain the status quo, proposed no change so it's factually incorrect to say there's never a proposal to retain the status quo.

Technically I believe pikeman is right but one has to ask the question if there is going to such a glamour to retain the status quo that none of the proposals on the night receive sufficient backing then why did not one club put in a motion for no change?"
Look Tom I don't know if the clubs will vote to change the format or not. I know many dual clubs are in favour of retaining the status quo. I also know most dual players, who are by far the majority of players in the county probably over 90%, want to retain the status quo and have gone on record saying it repeatedly over the last couple of years. Single code clubs want to change it, and some administrators, but it will harm the overall standard of both codes in the county at adult level if the status quo is changed, and therefore likely to affect the standard of our county teams. Hurling and Football are completely different sports with different skillsets. Our record in Leinster and AI club championships is poor because our champion clubs aren't as good as other champion clubs, it's nothing to do with format. For example this year Gorey were rusty looking in the first quarter but won the 2nd quarter well. They just weren't fit enough to keep it going though, as friends from Clare, Limerick and Kilkenny put it who watched the game against KK, lads who are involved in coaching and managing all the way up to intercounty, some of their top players just looked physically out of shape, as regards BMI etc. Another red herring being trotted out in support of the potential change is the promotional aspect for the finalists, but even if the format is changed there will only be 1 extra week between the semis and finals, hardly going to make any difference.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12109 - 07/01/2024 12:10:19    2518787

Link

Facile win up in Ferns 2-22 to 1-4 or so. SETU Waterford only had 5 of their starters on account of Waterford playing in the MHL. Ball was wet and heavy and not sticking too well. Hopefully Seamus Caseys injury isn't too bad he was looking sharp. Good practice for the short game, plenty of fringe players got good gametime, and got miles into the legs on a tacky surface is probably all that could be got out of that.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12109 - 07/01/2024 13:26:27    2518797

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "Look Tom I don't know if the clubs will vote to change the format or not. I know many dual clubs are in favour of retaining the status quo. I also know most dual players, who are by far the majority of players in the county probably over 90%, want to retain the status quo and have gone on record saying it repeatedly over the last couple of years. Single code clubs want to change it, and some administrators, but it will harm the overall standard of both codes in the county at adult level if the status quo is changed, and therefore likely to affect the standard of our county teams. Hurling and Football are completely different sports with different skillsets. Our record in Leinster and AI club championships is poor because our champion clubs aren't as good as other champion clubs, it's nothing to do with format. For example this year Gorey were rusty looking in the first quarter but won the 2nd quarter well. They just weren't fit enough to keep it going though, as friends from Clare, Limerick and Kilkenny put it who watched the game against KK, lads who are involved in coaching and managing all the way up to intercounty, some of their top players just looked physically out of shape, as regards BMI etc. Another red herring being trotted out in support of the potential change is the promotional aspect for the finalists, but even if the format is changed there will only be 1 extra week between the semis and finals, hardly going to make any difference."
90%??? I'd question that figure. Anyone im talking to want to return to the alternative weekends. It is probably the same as the vote was last time which was very close between those that want one code to play out and alternative weekends. I also know plenty of players including my own from dual clubs who want to go back. My own personal view hope it happens. Think the championship is a disaster the way it run off so quickly, from a spectacle and from a players point of a view, one injury and your year is nearly over. Anyways I've stated this before so only time will tell when the vote comes

alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 403 - 08/01/2024 08:33:02    2518939

Link

Replying To alwaysasub:  "90%??? I'd question that figure. Anyone im talking to want to return to the alternative weekends. It is probably the same as the vote was last time which was very close between those that want one code to play out and alternative weekends. I also know plenty of players including my own from dual clubs who want to go back. My own personal view hope it happens. Think the championship is a disaster the way it run off so quickly, from a spectacle and from a players point of a view, one injury and your year is nearly over. Anyways I've stated this before so only time will tell when the vote comes"
Havent actually met any players that want to go back to alternate weeks but that difference might be down to where in the county me and you live I suppose. And the club championships will still be run off in the same time whatever format is voted in? Well we will have 2 or maybe 3 more weeks at the end depending on the Leinster draw. But hopefully we will be losing weeks at the start of it this year;-)

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12109 - 08/01/2024 08:50:15    2518941

Link

Just on the ongoing thing about motions/structures/etc. -

Yeah, Viking was incorrect was above when he said there's never been a motion to just retain a status quo, but more importantly, he's correct when he says there doesn't have to be.

The example he gives is a good one - that there's not a motion each year to run championships on the basis of Senior, Intermediate, Intermediate A, etc., with one team promoted/relegated between them. That's because that was agreed several years ago now, and until somebody successfully brings a motion for change, it will remain in place. It doesn't have to be formally proposed and agreed on every year.

So, bottom line is that while there can be a motion to retain status quo, there doesn't have to be.

And this maybe answers tearintom's question, about why if some clubs want to retain the split season, none of them have put in a motion to call for it. It's because club admins would generally know the system, and know that if they want to keep something that's already there, they don't have to put in motion for it. They just have to vote against any motion for change.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2256 - 08/01/2024 09:22:14    2518950

Link

Replying To alwaysasub:  "90%??? I'd question that figure. Anyone im talking to want to return to the alternative weekends. It is probably the same as the vote was last time which was very close between those that want one code to play out and alternative weekends. I also know plenty of players including my own from dual clubs who want to go back. My own personal view hope it happens. Think the championship is a disaster the way it run off so quickly, from a spectacle and from a players point of a view, one injury and your year is nearly over. Anyways I've stated this before so only time will tell when the vote comes"
I'd say that 90% figure probably depends on who you're talking to!

For the past couple of years, players in my own club have been near unanimous in wanting to keep the split season. Players in a neighbouring club that I tend to hear a lot about feel the same way.

I do think it will change this year though, for a reason that just occurred to me last night. Last week's Bulletin says that Coiste Bainistí will themselves bring a motion for alternate blocks. I'd expect this to mean that all of Coiste Bainistí (i.e. the top table) will vote for it.

There's something like 16 or 18 votes there. Last year, they had a free vote, and they were split right down the middle (same as the clubs themselves were), as the people there voted in accordance with their clubs. However, this year, if they vote something like 16-0 for alternate blocks instead of 8-8, then that could be the deciding factor.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2256 - 08/01/2024 09:29:53    2518953

Link