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Banning Supporters For Threatening Behaviour

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Replying To Magpie2:  "Apparently there is an exam for referees. In wexford there is anyway. If you read bystanderbill post of 31/10, he says that referees in Wexford are expected to get 80% pass rate.
Surely we are not the only county to set exams.
Unless of course the above named poster is wrong
Although I'm sure he didn't pluck a percentage of 80% out of thin air.
As you and I said learning as you go along is the way to go but I believe that learning the rules before and during their early years of refereeing and to have exam credentials in their back pocket would improve decision making on the field."
It helps but having to do an exam isnt necessary. I dont think it would necessarily help improve standards.
by all means have laws/rules tests but dont have a minimum standard that if you fail the test you cant ref games

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3674 - 02/11/2023 12:51:03    2511289

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Replying To KillingFields:  "It helps but having to do an exam isnt necessary. I dont think it would necessarily help improve standards.
by all means have laws/rules tests but dont have a minimum standard that if you fail the test you cant ref games"
I think i get what you are saying. but there has to be some sort of a minimum acceptable standard of knowing the rules. Its true that knowing the rules an not being able to apply them is a different thing and that is the big arguement for having past players as referees because they know the game and not just the rule-book. Again there are lots of things that can be done to improver referees. But the attitude towards referees has to be addressed also. I fear that the GAA prefers the stick option which punishes the bad behavior after it has happened, and what will happen is that there will be a serious injury to a referee arising from an assault.
I would prefer if the GAA took a proactive approach. Educating more people on the rules, forcing clubs to support the referees and putting more resources into officiating would help.

bystanderbill (Wexford) - Posts: 45 - 02/11/2023 14:16:53    2511304

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Replying To bystanderbill:  "I think i get what you are saying. but there has to be some sort of a minimum acceptable standard of knowing the rules. Its true that knowing the rules an not being able to apply them is a different thing and that is the big arguement for having past players as referees because they know the game and not just the rule-book. Again there are lots of things that can be done to improver referees. But the attitude towards referees has to be addressed also. I fear that the GAA prefers the stick option which punishes the bad behavior after it has happened, and what will happen is that there will be a serious injury to a referee arising from an assault.
I would prefer if the GAA took a proactive approach. Educating more people on the rules, forcing clubs to support the referees and putting more resources into officiating would help."
I dont think so. A referee reffing u12 cant be expected to be treated to same standard as one reffing senior club games
Failing a rules test on paper especially before a person has ever refereed a game on the pitch doesnt mean the person will not be a good referee.
Same with a fitness test.
regular meetings for referees to discuss rules, interesting points that came up in games recently all help far more.
like in rugby we have a different area of the game that we discuss at every meeting. one week it may be the scrum, another meeting the tackle/ruck, another meeting on advantage
Past referees who are finished refereeing games on the pitch should be attending games of refs of all levels and be giving them pointers. watch first half go to ref and give them 3 pointers on areas they need to improve on/work on and then talk to ref at end of game as well.
the assessor then sends a report to the relevant ref selection committee and this has an impact on next game the referee does and whatever level that is.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3674 - 02/11/2023 15:23:15    2511317

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Replying To KillingFields:  "I dont think so. A referee reffing u12 cant be expected to be treated to same standard as one reffing senior club games
Failing a rules test on paper especially before a person has ever refereed a game on the pitch doesnt mean the person will not be a good referee.
Same with a fitness test.
regular meetings for referees to discuss rules, interesting points that came up in games recently all help far more.
like in rugby we have a different area of the game that we discuss at every meeting. one week it may be the scrum, another meeting the tackle/ruck, another meeting on advantage
Past referees who are finished refereeing games on the pitch should be attending games of refs of all levels and be giving them pointers. watch first half go to ref and give them 3 pointers on areas they need to improve on/work on and then talk to ref at end of game as well.
the assessor then sends a report to the relevant ref selection committee and this has an impact on next game the referee does and whatever level that is."
I'm not disagreeing with too much of what you say. but being honest a bad referee in an under 12 game is probably way more likely to get abuse than if he was doing an adult match. Why? because the sidelines in U12 and U14 games are filled with very passionate (but unfurtunately not well educated in the rules) parents who only see 'My Johnny' and dont give a toss about anyone else. So sending out someone with a poor knowledge of the rules at that level is a recipe for disaster. But it happens.
I like the idea of mentoring and meeting to discuss rules and items that come up in games and these should be fed back through the clubs too.

bystanderbill (Wexford) - Posts: 45 - 03/11/2023 14:57:18    2511444

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Replying To KillingFields:  "I dont think so. A referee reffing u12 cant be expected to be treated to same standard as one reffing senior club games
Failing a rules test on paper especially before a person has ever refereed a game on the pitch doesnt mean the person will not be a good referee.
Same with a fitness test.
regular meetings for referees to discuss rules, interesting points that came up in games recently all help far more.
like in rugby we have a different area of the game that we discuss at every meeting. one week it may be the scrum, another meeting the tackle/ruck, another meeting on advantage
Past referees who are finished refereeing games on the pitch should be attending games of refs of all levels and be giving them pointers. watch first half go to ref and give them 3 pointers on areas they need to improve on/work on and then talk to ref at end of game as well.
the assessor then sends a report to the relevant ref selection committee and this has an impact on next game the referee does and whatever level that is."
I'm not disagreeing with too much of what you say. but being honest a bad referee in an under 12 game is probably way more likely to get abuse than if he was doing an adult match. Why? because the sidelines in U12 and U14 games are filled with very passionate (but unfurtunately not well educated in the rules) parents who only see 'My Johnny' and dont give a toss about anyone else. So sending out someone with a poor knowledge of the rules at that level is a recipe for disaster. But it happens.
I like the idea of mentoring and meeting to discuss rules and items that come up in games and these should be fed back through the clubs too.

bystanderbill (Wexford) - Posts: 45 - 03/11/2023 15:11:18    2511448

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Replying To bystanderbill:  "I'm not disagreeing with too much of what you say. but being honest a bad referee in an under 12 game is probably way more likely to get abuse than if he was doing an adult match. Why? because the sidelines in U12 and U14 games are filled with very passionate (but unfurtunately not well educated in the rules) parents who only see 'My Johnny' and dont give a toss about anyone else. So sending out someone with a poor knowledge of the rules at that level is a recipe for disaster. But it happens.
I like the idea of mentoring and meeting to discuss rules and items that come up in games and these should be fed back through the clubs too."
The adult refs referee the u12s also here in Wexford. We don't have that many refs.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13880 - 03/11/2023 17:56:29    2511458

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More trouble at Club Junior Games in Ulster yesterday, Ex Donegal Manager branded the Ref in his game an absolute disgrace??
The GAA will have to incentivise the Referee Role more Financally to get more capable people referring , there is some people allowed ref matchs who are not capable of refering and would frustrate the calmest of people. Youd imagine at Provincal level refs have had a share of training but within counties you can pass one basic course and cause mayhem for the next 20 years ??
80/90% of refs are doing a good or farly good job but theres 10% giving refs a bad name and allowed continue year in year out unchallenged.

OpenStand (Limerick) - Posts: 717 - 06/11/2023 10:34:57    2511692

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Replying To bystanderbill:  "I'm not disagreeing with too much of what you say. but being honest a bad referee in an under 12 game is probably way more likely to get abuse than if he was doing an adult match. Why? because the sidelines in U12 and U14 games are filled with very passionate (but unfurtunately not well educated in the rules) parents who only see 'My Johnny' and dont give a toss about anyone else. So sending out someone with a poor knowledge of the rules at that level is a recipe for disaster. But it happens.
I like the idea of mentoring and meeting to discuss rules and items that come up in games and these should be fed back through the clubs too."
Yeah well you have to start at lowest level and work up no point going in at higher levels before you are ready

All club coaches at senior/intermediate also need to meet at start of each year with head of Refs in County to see what Refs will be focusing on etc in year ahead and also helps give feedback/open a proper dialogue through official channels so clubs can discuss issues they have

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3674 - 06/11/2023 13:27:59    2511747

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Referees meeting club mentors is a good idea but not to necessarily discuss what they're going to focus on for a particular year, referees have to focus on all the rules, it's different to rugby where the scrum is such a technical area and possibly an extremely dangerouis one, by all means mentors should meet referees to understand the rules as there's a dearth of understanding of the rules and explain the rules, the foot block is a good example where every shot blocked is met with cries of foot block, likewise with technical fouls in both codes in the large square, mentors rarely if ever read the rule book, therein lies a significant problem.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1916 - 06/11/2023 14:12:36    2511757

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "Referees meeting club mentors is a good idea but not to necessarily discuss what they're going to focus on for a particular year, referees have to focus on all the rules, it's different to rugby where the scrum is such a technical area and possibly an extremely dangerouis one, by all means mentors should meet referees to understand the rules as there's a dearth of understanding of the rules and explain the rules, the foot block is a good example where every shot blocked is met with cries of foot block, likewise with technical fouls in both codes in the large square, mentors rarely if ever read the rule book, therein lies a significant problem."
Why not call them coaches as that's what they are not "mentors"
Refs should always have a focus on some areas of game over others be it because of rule changes or to help improve quality of games.

But Refs need to meet more as well to help improve themselves. If only for the ref managers in each division/county to reinforce what good refereeing is

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3674 - 06/11/2023 18:10:09    2511816

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We have gone down the road of focussing on the referees when the title of this thread is 'Banning supporters for Threating behaviour.
I see they are proposing a 96 week ban for the offaly player that pushed the ref in tullamore. I would support this 100% and hope that he doesn't get this reduced on appeal.
We need to get tough - no matter how bad a referee is they have to be protected.

bystanderbill (Wexford) - Posts: 45 - 07/11/2023 11:08:24    2511868

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Replying To bystanderbill:  "We have gone down the road of focussing on the referees when the title of this thread is 'Banning supporters for Threating behaviour.
I see they are proposing a 96 week ban for the offaly player that pushed the ref in tullamore. I would support this 100% and hope that he doesn't get this reduced on appeal.
We need to get tough - no matter how bad a referee is they have to be protected."
I think a huge issue in the game is peoples lack of understanding of the rules of Gaelic football. Players included … you have people in the stand. Shouting and roaring and they haven't a clue of the actual rules

veterngaa (Monaghan) - Posts: 651 - 07/11/2023 11:22:34    2511876

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Replying To veterngaa:  "I think a huge issue in the game is peoples lack of understanding of the rules of Gaelic football. Players included … you have people in the stand. Shouting and roaring and they haven't a clue of the actual rules"
That is a lot of it. Too many shouting from the terraces.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 07/11/2023 11:46:41    2511889

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Replying To bystanderbill:  "We have gone down the road of focussing on the referees when the title of this thread is 'Banning supporters for Threating behaviour.
I see they are proposing a 96 week ban for the offaly player that pushed the ref in tullamore. I would support this 100% and hope that he doesn't get this reduced on appeal.
We need to get tough - no matter how bad a referee is they have to be protected."
96 weeks is now the minimum suspension for assaulting a match official, so I'd say the only way he could have it reduced if it's overturned altogether, and would say that's unlikely to happen.

Used to be the case that 96 weeks was the maximum, but that was changed this year after it meant 96 weeks was all that Wexford could hand out in the case that happened here last year (the one that actually ended up with a jail sentence as well).

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 07/11/2023 12:05:17    2511898

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Replying To eoinog:  "OMG, so you would throw out the U.12 team out of a competition because of an incident that had nothing to do with them ."
That would be disproportionate for sure for those U12s, but maybe it would make people think twice and consider the consequences for the whole club if they decide to go after a match official.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1126 - 07/11/2023 14:33:19    2511945

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Replying To bystanderbill:  "Theres lots of issues to be addressed here. This situation arises for a number of reasons some of them are possible to fix some arent.

1. Not all referees are great. some are. some are decent. some are abysmal. But not enough is being done to improve the standard of refereeing and also to remove referees from refereeing that clearly shouldn't be refereeing. the arguement that games wont go ahead if there arent enough referees is real. but if lots of games were cancelled because of no referees then clubs would have to get real in support and defence of referees so that might change the culture. lots more could be done to improve standards of referees.
2. There is a win at all costs mentality in sport. Fair play is lacking and the blame culture for defeats is the easy option. is easy to pick on a ref for a critical decision rather than accept the defeat or accpt that the responsibility for a player coaching error. I was at a game recently where a referee instructed a penalty to be retaken because about 5 defenders were almost ahead of the kicker. The abuse he got was unreal His decision was correct. The defender who picked the ball up off the small square wasn't singled out for any criticism by his team mates. The referee was accused of ruining the game and being a cheat etc the usual stuff. Again responsibility for this falls to the clubs.
3. Psychos are everywhere - The guy in wexford who has had the 10 year ban proposed for him. its his third suspension since the start of 2022 (1 Month, 6 Month and now this) plus he isnt even a member of his club - they suspended him over an altercation he had with one of their own mentors. Hard to know how you fix this.
4. but this is an organisation wide issue. Everyone needs to own it. Referees need to be better. County boards and Croke park need to train referees better. Players, teams, management, supporters and Clubs need to act responsibly and in a sense of fair play. and the consequences for not doing need to be a proper deterrent."
That psycho you mentioned in point 3: a ten year ban from who? His club? I mean, surely a club can kick someone out? Can't they give him a life ban?

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1126 - 07/11/2023 14:43:53    2511948

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "That psycho you mentioned in point 3: a ten year ban from who? His club? I mean, surely a club can kick someone out? Can't they give him a life ban?"
Wexford county board are proposing a 10 year ban - his club already banned him this year for an altercation with a mentor. he went to a game subsequently and assaulted a ref. he got 2 suspensions last year for abuse to referees.

bystanderbill (Wexford) - Posts: 45 - 07/11/2023 17:02:00    2511976

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Tullamore GAA are considering appealing the 96 week ban imposed on the member who pushed the referee after the Summerhill game. I am surprised, as there is no excuse for what happened post match that day. The ref didn't cost Tullamore the game.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 07/11/2023 20:52:04    2512013

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Replying To OpenStand:  "More trouble at Club Junior Games in Ulster yesterday, Ex Donegal Manager branded the Ref in his game an absolute disgrace??
The GAA will have to incentivise the Referee Role more Financally to get more capable people referring , there is some people allowed ref matchs who are not capable of refering and would frustrate the calmest of people. Youd imagine at Provincal level refs have had a share of training but within counties you can pass one basic course and cause mayhem for the next 20 years ??
80/90% of refs are doing a good or farly good job but theres 10% giving refs a bad name and allowed continue year in year out unchallenged."
Do you not think that maybe the general person does not know the rules? How many people could tell you any of the actual rules of the game?

veterngaa (Monaghan) - Posts: 651 - 08/11/2023 07:59:34    2512025

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Replying To veterngaa:  "Do you not think that maybe the general person does not know the rules? How many people could tell you any of the actual rules of the game?"
But it all comes down to accountability. lots of people don't know the rules. but thankfully 99.9% of people who dont know the rules dont assault referees. anyone who does should get a minimum 2 year ban.
If i don't know the rules (as a supporter) what is the harm.? only to me as i get frustrated with what see as a wrong decision probably because i dont understand
whose responsibility is it that i should know the rules? Mine - or else i get more frustrated.
The only issue is if I take this frustration out on another person. and if so i should be accountable for my actions.
In the tullamore case.
The referee made an error which he corrected and ultimately got it right.
The Supporter (who i understand was an injured player and should have known the rule and the fact that the referee was right) got frustrated could not control his emotions and assaulted the referee. He needs now to accept his punishment. Very clear cut no excuses.

bystanderbill (Wexford) - Posts: 45 - 08/11/2023 11:51:17    2512064

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