National Forum

Can Gaelic Football (Handball?) Be Saved?

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Respectfully bdbuddah I disagree. I do not want radical rule changes. For me, all I would do is get rid of the fwd mark and possibly restrict the goalie, not allowed outside 20m line.
Also we must accept there is no "rule changes" that will improve games between weak and strong teams, mismatches.
Most games between equally talented teams are not as bad as portrayed and some are great games.
There will always be some negative managers and they will find a negative way to play whatever the rules."
Going back to 3 subs would be a start if you want closer games.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 12/04/2024 12:00:03    2537503

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "You can't think of multiple issues yourself? Genuinely?"
It's obvious you can't….!!!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 12/04/2024 15:44:15    2537549

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "There's no kick pass in rugby. It's illegal."
I didn't say that 50/22 was a kick pass to a teammate - just take my words as written.

The gaelic inspiration comes from 50/22 being a 'two-zone' kick as well (latter to touch), although this could have a kick and chase option as well, with recovery by the kicking team before the ball goes out - I'm not going to debate if this is 'a pass of sorts' or not.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2891 - 12/04/2024 16:03:10    2537553

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "It's obvious you can't….!!!!"
I have about 5 or 6. You genuinely can't see issues? I honestly can't take you seriously. You are obviously just an armchair fan.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 12/04/2024 16:14:04    2537556

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "There's no kick pass in rugby. It's illegal."
Kick pass in Rugby totally legit once the receiver is not offside.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 795 - 12/04/2024 16:42:57    2537561

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Replying To omahant:  "I didn't say that 50/22 was a kick pass to a teammate - just take my words as written.

The gaelic inspiration comes from 50/22 being a 'two-zone' kick as well (latter to touch), although this could have a kick and chase option as well, with recovery by the kicking team before the ball goes out - I'm not going to debate if this is 'a pass of sorts' or not."
You can't debate it ecause it's not a pass. Kick is forward and your teammates need to be behind the kicker. Not having go at you Omahant because you're always positive, even if I don't agree with you, and there's way too much negativity on Hoganstand. There's a few parts in common between rugby and Gaelic Football but not many. If only we could try and some way reverse engineer passing the ball through the hands backwards in rugby and turn it into kicking the ball forwards more, a lateral or backwards pass inside your own 40 is a turnover or free. The rugby offside rule can give an attacking team an advantage though I don't know if there'd be any benefit to having to keep a defensive line on the goal side of the attacker close to the goal. They'd have to keep retreating towards goal until say the attacking team reached the 30 metre line before they could tackle the nearest man in possession. Sounds a bit like basketball then!

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7651 - 12/04/2024 17:26:59    2537565

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Replying To omahant:  "In lieu of a hand pass restriction, why not have a "kick ball at distance" requirement, something like this:

"TWO-ZONE FORWARD KICK PASS RULE"
Use the 'two 45s and two 65s' line markings to divide the middle 'third' of the field (approx. 55 of 145 metres, between the 45s) into "THREE distinct ZONES" (2, 3 & 4).

In lieu of a hand pass limitation, teams in possession in their defensive portion of the pitch, are required to execute a "two-zone forward kick pass" across their 'defensive 65'. To do so, the team can optionally kick FROM Zone 1 (behind their defensive 45) OR Zone 2 (behind their defensive 65) TO Zone 3 (between the 65s) OR Zone 4 (beyond the attacking 65), respectively (i.e. Z1 to Z3, or Z2 to Z4). A violation results in a free kick to the opposing team at midfield.

This required kick could be dubbed the "45/65 rule", as it was inspired by the relatively new and effective "50/22 rule" in rugby union.

Would it be worth a trial?"
Imagining it in practice just sounds very complicated, there is a lot of variables there.

I like the idea behind what your trying to get players to do here (encouraging players to move the ball more directly sometimes when moving the ball up the pitch) but I just can't imagine players/ referees being able to instinctively follow this rule.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 12/04/2024 19:29:26    2537569

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "I have about 5 or 6. You genuinely can't see issues? I honestly can't take you seriously. You are obviously just an armchair fan."
Let's hear them… The game is still in big trouble regardless of whether the fan is in an armchair or at the game… again let's hear 5/6 problems with taking frees for a score from the ground… You have dug a hole you can't get out off… not unusual for a Mayo man…!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 12/04/2024 22:10:15    2537583

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Let's hear them… The game is still in big trouble regardless of whether the fan is in an armchair or at the game… again let's hear 5/6 problems with taking frees for a score from the ground… You have dug a hole you can't get out off… not unusual for a Mayo man…!"
I have at least 5 or 6. You are one of the most clueless posters on here if you think it's a good idea. Not even worth debating it with you. Absolutely laughable stuff. But seeing as you are a barstool expert i will give you one small bone to start with.

How come even the best free takers of our generation sometimes took frees from the hand in certain situations ? The likes of Rock, Murphy and McConville? Why do you think that was? Let's start with that. I have about 5 more reasons after we go through this one.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 12/04/2024 22:47:56    2537592

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Kick pass in Rugby totally legit once the receiver is not offside."
It's a kickahead not a pass when the receiver has to be behind you when you're kicking the ball.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7651 - 12/04/2024 23:52:23    2537597

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "Imagining it in practice just sounds very complicated, there is a lot of variables there.

I like the idea behind what your trying to get players to do here (encouraging players to move the ball more directly sometimes when moving the ball up the pitch) but I just can't imagine players/ referees being able to instinctively follow this rule."
OK, that's fair.

In the middle third of the field, a player in midfield or just beyond is always required to receive a teammate forward kick pass from distance (unless there's a turnover).

Aussie AFL "field umpires" (referees to us) are calling 20-metre marks all day all over the "cricket" field.

Mine is very repetitious, all in the middle third.
I just want teams to kick the ball and create a few contests.

Much of the rest of the game could stay the same, if you also don't like my No Five Inside Offside Rule (target 4-6-4 formation).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2891 - 13/04/2024 01:09:53    2537601

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "There's no kick pass in rugby. It's illegal."
You can kick the ball to a team mate if they are behind or level with the ball carrier whos about to kick the ball and the ball is kicked forward but a direct kick pass luke gaelic no.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3674 - 13/04/2024 02:12:13    2537602

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "I have at least 5 or 6. You are one of the most clueless posters on here if you think it's a good idea. Not even worth debating it with you. Absolutely laughable stuff. But seeing as you are a barstool expert i will give you one small bone to start with.

How come even the best free takers of our generation sometimes took frees from the hand in certain situations ? The likes of Rock, Murphy and McConville? Why do you think that was? Let's start with that. I have about 5 more reasons after we go through this one."
That's not a reason…. If it had to be taken from the ground the players you mention would have no problem with it…. You are clearly clueless if you think there is 5/6 problems with reverting to frees from the ground only for scores… you can't even come up with one….!!! Give up and go back to watching rugby as you obviously haven't got a clue about Gaelic football..!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 13/04/2024 08:20:45    2537610

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "That's not a reason…. If it had to be taken from the ground the players you mention would have no problem with it…. You are clearly clueless if you think there is 5/6 problems with reverting to frees from the ground only for scores… you can't even come up with one….!!! Give up and go back to watching rugby as you obviously haven't got a clue about Gaelic football..!"
You must be a troll. Certain conditions mean certain frees are better from the hands. You are then making it harder to score. Some players prefer frees from the hands. You don't become a free taker from the ground overnight. And then guess what comes next? Tactical fouling when they know the free taker isn't up to it. So tactical fouling is problem number 2.

I can keep going here. Played senior football for 20 years. Have managed 2 different clubs to both senior and Intermediate titles in the past 10 years and attend club and inter County games all year round but yeah, you know more from your couch.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 13/04/2024 12:20:40    2537630

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Is someone saying football will be saved if we make freetakers going for a score kick the ball off the ground?

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1955 - 13/04/2024 13:33:17    2537637

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "That's not a reason…. If it had to be taken from the ground the players you mention would have no problem with it…. You are clearly clueless if you think there is 5/6 problems with reverting to frees from the ground only for scores… you can't even come up with one….!!! Give up and go back to watching rugby as you obviously haven't got a clue about Gaelic football..!"
Also find it hilarious that you think free takers could tap them over from the ground no problem. If that was the case why do the best free takers bother switching at all? For the craic is it?

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 13/04/2024 13:46:58    2537638

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Is someone saying football will be saved if we make freetakers going for a score kick the ball off the ground?"
I'm not going to go back and read over posts but in fairness I'm fairly sure Foreverblue didn't say football could be saved by having free kicks taken from the ground.
He, I think mentioned in a post that after the change was made to allow frees be taken from the hand we got to see less of the skill of free taking off the ground and that is why he said we should only allow scores from free kicks off the ground.

Going back to requiring frees to be scored off the ground is not a change I'd be looking for but not a change that would be totally outlandish either, its no reason to dismiss his other opinions.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 13/04/2024 16:00:22    2537659

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "I'm not going to go back and read over posts but in fairness I'm fairly sure Foreverblue didn't say football could be saved by having free kicks taken from the ground.
He, I think mentioned in a post that after the change was made to allow frees be taken from the hand we got to see less of the skill of free taking off the ground and that is why he said we should only allow scores from free kicks off the ground.

Going back to requiring frees to be scored off the ground is not a change I'd be looking for but not a change that would be totally outlandish either, its no reason to dismiss his other opinions."
So because you and him agree on certain things you go soft on his daft idea. Got it

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 13/04/2024 16:25:59    2537665

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "You must be a troll. Certain conditions mean certain frees are better from the hands. You are then making it harder to score. Some players prefer frees from the hands. You don't become a free taker from the ground overnight. And then guess what comes next? Tactical fouling when they know the free taker isn't up to it. So tactical fouling is problem number 2.

I can keep going here. Played senior football for 20 years. Have managed 2 different clubs to both senior and Intermediate titles in the past 10 years and attend club and inter County games all year round but yeah, you know more from your couch."
I'd say you played dam all… you probably wouldn't be able to kick a free from the ground…. Practice makes perfect so your tactical fouling excuse doesn't hold up… Still waiting on your 5/6 problems… You have had 2 days now and you have come up with nothing but nonsense…..

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 13/04/2024 23:08:00    2537707

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "You can't debate it ecause it's not a pass. Kick is forward and your teammates need to be behind the kicker. Not having go at you Omahant because you're always positive, even if I don't agree with you, and there's way too much negativity on Hoganstand. There's a few parts in common between rugby and Gaelic Football but not many. If only we could try and some way reverse engineer passing the ball through the hands backwards in rugby and turn it into kicking the ball forwards more, a lateral or backwards pass inside your own 40 is a turnover or free. The rugby offside rule can give an attacking team an advantage though I don't know if there'd be any benefit to having to keep a defensive line on the goal side of the attacker close to the goal. They'd have to keep retreating towards goal until say the attacking team reached the 30 metre line before they could tackle the nearest man in possession. Sounds a bit like basketball then!"
Why no do the opposite to rugby?
Only pass forwards and no back passes, you can pass sideways but no backwards.

In rugby, you can only be offside at a break in play or a tackle breakdown/maul.

In GAA why not use the lines on the pitch as offside lines, players have to go back outside them at a break in play.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1197 - 14/04/2024 08:57:16    2537719

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