National Forum

Can Gaelic Football (Handball?) Be Saved?

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To KillingFields:  "Its not so much that world rugby tweak laws on ongoing basis but that they do regular closed trials in specific countries or even competitions within countries before expanding trials of laws to entire world
Gaa should do that far more in college competitions and some senior club competitions."
College comps and senior club comps? And what non important ones are you referring to at those grades?

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7908 - 18/03/2024 19:08:58    2531981

Link

Replying To GreenandRed:  "You're a pessimist trying to suggest rule changes for a problem that isn't as widespread as some would like us to believe especially in the media. No need to change rules when some coaches promote open expasive football and how to get scores past blanket defences."
Most teams get plenty of extra players behind the ball.
This is the cause of the silence and boredom of the crowd for long spells at the games.
Telling us there is ways that this tactic can be played to be slightly less boring is not good enough.

GreenMan1987 (Meath) - Posts: 38 - 19/03/2024 07:32:42    2532045

Link

Was listening to Mark Fitzgerald who is managing Clare and his comments on Clare's performance V Antrim was totally refreshing he said that if he had paid in he would be looking for his money back and he the manager.

Coaches are killing the game stone dead hurling is now also a possession game nothing off the cuff in either codes any more

clooney (Clare) - Posts: 891 - 19/03/2024 08:54:05    2532055

Link

Mayo 2-13 Derry 3-15, Hastings MacHale Park FT
Roscommon 1-11 Kerry 1-17, Dr Hyde Park FT
Tyrone 1-19 Monaghan 2-13, O'Neills Healy Park FT
Galway 0-14 Dublin 0-22, Pearse Stadium FT

Div 2

Armagh 2-21 Cavan 0-12, Box-It Athletic Grounds FT
Kildare 1-8 Donegal 0-17, Netwatch Cullen Park FT
Louth 6-17 Fermanagh 0-11, Ardee FT
Meath 1-11 Cork 1-15, Pairc Tailteann FT

Another weekend of high scoring in the top 2 divisions but this place and twitter would have you believe there was barely a shot in anger.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7908 - 19/03/2024 09:13:30    2532058

Link

Replying To TheFlaker:  "Mayo 2-13 Derry 3-15, Hastings MacHale Park FT
Roscommon 1-11 Kerry 1-17, Dr Hyde Park FT
Tyrone 1-19 Monaghan 2-13, O'Neills Healy Park FT
Galway 0-14 Dublin 0-22, Pearse Stadium FT

Div 2

Armagh 2-21 Cavan 0-12, Box-It Athletic Grounds FT
Kildare 1-8 Donegal 0-17, Netwatch Cullen Park FT
Louth 6-17 Fermanagh 0-11, Ardee FT
Meath 1-11 Cork 1-15, Pairc Tailteann FT

Another weekend of high scoring in the top 2 divisions but this place and twitter would have you believe there was barely a shot in anger."
Score lines make no difference…. Most of the games are pure rubbish and hard to watch…. The standout game was Mayo v Derry which was very good but Roscommon v Kerry was difficult to watch.: ball endlessly passed over and back…. more like a game of 'donkey' the kids used to play on the beach…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1959 - 19/03/2024 10:07:56    2532066

Link

Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Score lines make no difference…. Most of the games are pure rubbish and hard to watch…. The standout game was Mayo v Derry which was very good but Roscommon v Kerry was difficult to watch.: ball endlessly passed over and back…. more like a game of 'donkey' the kids used to play on the beach…"
Conceding 3 goals and 15 points at home might make for a lovely television viewing experience but that's woeful defending 3 weeks from the championship, regardless of the opposition and even if it's not our first choice defence.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7373 - 19/03/2024 10:58:02    2532078

Link

Replying To GreenMan1987:  "Most teams get plenty of extra players behind the ball.
This is the cause of the silence and boredom of the crowd for long spells at the games.
Telling us there is ways that this tactic can be played to be slightly less boring is not good enough."
It's two teams looking to win a game of football, their objective isn't to entertain the crowd or the people watching on their television. Teams will try playing to their strengths, might not always be ooen attractive football depending on their opposition. What would be 'good enough'?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7373 - 19/03/2024 11:05:34    2532079

Link

Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Score lines make no difference…. Most of the games are pure rubbish and hard to watch…. The standout game was Mayo v Derry which was very good but Roscommon v Kerry was difficult to watch.: ball endlessly passed over and back…. more like a game of 'donkey' the kids used to play on the beach…"
People are never happy. You pick out the Roscommon game and ignore the others.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7908 - 19/03/2024 11:06:30    2532080

Link

Replying To TheFlaker:  "People are never happy. You pick out the Roscommon game and ignore the others."
That's very unfair on the Kerry Roscommon game. That was a good game for 17th March. Both teams did get men back but they also were trying clearly trying to break quickly. They were still putting pressure on the ball high up the pitch. There was some good one on one defending. There were shots being forced to be taken from outside the prime scoring zone. When I hear people criticise a game like that I do wonder are they just not taking the wider game on its own merits.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4245 - 19/03/2024 11:50:25    2532089

Link

Replying To GreenMan1987:  "Most teams get plenty of extra players behind the ball.
This is the cause of the silence and boredom of the crowd for long spells at the games.
Telling us there is ways that this tactic can be played to be slightly less boring is not good enough."
There's lot of great games. The best games over the last 10 years or so (that happen very regularly at the latter end of the championship) are way better games than anything that used to happen.

There's a bit of nostalgia going on for the past here. The excitement probably was great with those games but if you look back on them now, you'd have to say the quality was abysmal.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4245 - 19/03/2024 11:56:16    2532094

Link

Replying To GreenandRed:  "It's two teams looking to win a game of football, their objective isn't to entertain the crowd or the people watching on their television. Teams will try playing to their strengths, might not always be ooen attractive football depending on their opposition. What would be 'good enough'?"
Of course teams and managers will play to win based on what type of players they have and what the rule book allows. That's obvious.

That's why it wont be good enough if the committee is a talking shop and is afraid to act in terms of the rule book.

GreenMan1987 (Meath) - Posts: 38 - 19/03/2024 12:37:03    2532110

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "That's very unfair on the Kerry Roscommon game. That was a good game for 17th March. Both teams did get men back but they also were trying clearly trying to break quickly. They were still putting pressure on the ball high up the pitch. There was some good one on one defending. There were shots being forced to be taken from outside the prime scoring zone. When I hear people criticise a game like that I do wonder are they just not taking the wider game on its own merits."
The Kerry -Roscommon match was evidence of teams operating at a different level. Roscommon are a D2 team at most and could struggle to get promoted the following year. Kerry are playing as if they have one mind on next July. Just ticking over and showing nothing.

Jack L (None) - Posts: 3101 - 19/03/2024 13:38:33    2532137

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "That's very unfair on the Kerry Roscommon game. That was a good game for 17th March. Both teams did get men back but they also were trying clearly trying to break quickly. They were still putting pressure on the ball high up the pitch. There was some good one on one defending. There were shots being forced to be taken from outside the prime scoring zone. When I hear people criticise a game like that I do wonder are they just not taking the wider game on its own merits."
Yeah, there is no uniformity across administrators, players and fans as to what we want an "ideal" game of gaelic football to be. There are some that view the most dour of games in trying to break down the thickest of blankets as wonderful tactical exercises (not me, to be clear). This issue is really in the eye of the beholder.

While I too like "tight" low scoring games where the win has to be grinded out, my preference is for open free flowing actions with plenty of 'exciting' contested balls.

To increase the latter - how about this rule -
"A team is allowed no more than a series of three consecutive passes, by hand or foot, after which the ball must be kicked at least two zones from Zones 1 or 2, at least one zone from Zones 3 or 4, or register a score or wide from Zone 5. After satisfying each such inter-zone kick, the team may take up to three more consecutive passes before the next requirement."

Perhaps after each 3rd pass (4th possession), the referee could make a rugby-style "Use It" call.

For this purpose, the pitch has five zones: between the 65s (Zone 3), behind each 65 (Zones 2 defensive & 4 attacking) and behind each 45 (Zones 1 & 5).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2632 - 19/03/2024 14:01:22    2532145

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "There's lot of great games. The best games over the last 10 years or so (that happen very regularly at the latter end of the championship) are way better games than anything that used to happen.

There's a bit of nostalgia going on for the past here. The excitement probably was great with those games but if you look back on them now, you'd have to say the quality was abysmal."
That's debatable saying the best matches now are better than anything in the past.

I would say that the average standard of footballer today is probably higher than in the past (in that modern players, at both club and county level, are prepared so much more compared to previous generations there almost bound to be better) but the possession based tactics involved nowadays curtails the opportunities to execute a lot of the hardest skills while under pressure (the statistics at the start of this topic shows this).
Even good games nowadays have less contests for possession than games from the past.
Possession based football tactics has also resulted in more players who can cover ground being selected over naturally talented 'football' players.

One area that looks more skilful than before is when a goal keeper completes a long accurate kickout but this has largely come about because of how much easier it is to kick the ball off a kicking tee than off the ground.

To me there is very little, in terms of spectacle and playing enjoyment that is added by possession based tactics.
The only positive argument I can see that possession based tactics has been in any way positive for gaelic football is it allows bad teams to keep the score down a bit against good teams but even here I'm not sure it is the case, there is still a lot of one sided games (for me one of the biggest factors making games more one sided is the increased amount of subs that can be used).

Summary of above, possession based tactics I think do not aid any of the best aspects of gaelic football and are the main cause of the worst aspects of gaelic football.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1361 - 19/03/2024 15:17:33    2532171

Link

Replying To Jack L:  "The Kerry -Roscommon match was evidence of teams operating at a different level. Roscommon are a D2 team at most and could struggle to get promoted the following year. Kerry are playing as if they have one mind on next July. Just ticking over and showing nothing."
I don't know about any of that.

Kerry were definitely better but they were engaged in that game, there was intensity to their game.

They were made to work for their scores.

I don't know what more you want, teams are going to be of different standards. The result didn't ever feel in doubt but I think the game had a lot of good moments.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4245 - 19/03/2024 15:48:30    2532180

Link

Replying To omahant:  "Yeah, there is no uniformity across administrators, players and fans as to what we want an "ideal" game of gaelic football to be. There are some that view the most dour of games in trying to break down the thickest of blankets as wonderful tactical exercises (not me, to be clear). This issue is really in the eye of the beholder.

While I too like "tight" low scoring games where the win has to be grinded out, my preference is for open free flowing actions with plenty of 'exciting' contested balls.

To increase the latter - how about this rule -
"A team is allowed no more than a series of three consecutive passes, by hand or foot, after which the ball must be kicked at least two zones from Zones 1 or 2, at least one zone from Zones 3 or 4, or register a score or wide from Zone 5. After satisfying each such inter-zone kick, the team may take up to three more consecutive passes before the next requirement."

Perhaps after each 3rd pass (4th possession), the referee could make a rugby-style "Use It" call.

For this purpose, the pitch has five zones: between the 65s (Zone 3), behind each 65 (Zones 2 defensive & 4 attacking) and behind each 45 (Zones 1 & 5)."
This is another training game type rule.

I really hate a rule that is trying to dictate how the sport is played and narrows it down one specific path.

It's so closed minded.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4245 - 19/03/2024 15:50:38    2532181

Link

Replying To omahant:  "Yeah, there is no uniformity across administrators, players and fans as to what we want an "ideal" game of gaelic football to be. There are some that view the most dour of games in trying to break down the thickest of blankets as wonderful tactical exercises (not me, to be clear). This issue is really in the eye of the beholder.

While I too like "tight" low scoring games where the win has to be grinded out, my preference is for open free flowing actions with plenty of 'exciting' contested balls.

To increase the latter - how about this rule -
"A team is allowed no more than a series of three consecutive passes, by hand or foot, after which the ball must be kicked at least two zones from Zones 1 or 2, at least one zone from Zones 3 or 4, or register a score or wide from Zone 5. After satisfying each such inter-zone kick, the team may take up to three more consecutive passes before the next requirement."

Perhaps after each 3rd pass (4th possession), the referee could make a rugby-style "Use It" call.

For this purpose, the pitch has five zones: between the 65s (Zone 3), behind each 65 (Zones 2 defensive & 4 attacking) and behind each 45 (Zones 1 & 5)."
Ah just stop!

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1451 - 19/03/2024 15:53:54    2532183

Link

It's funny how the definition of a dour game has changed over the years.
Year's ago a dour game was usually a game with loads of pulling and dragging, occasional scraps breaking out and some really tough hits while competing for possession.

Nowadays a dour game involves thickest of blankets, and continual uncontested hand passing.

In the old days I sometimes used to find a dour game compelling as while beautiful football was occasional you almost felt leaving you had witnessed a battle.

I can't say I find any modern dour games compelling in the same way.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1361 - 19/03/2024 16:18:26    2532193

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "This is another training game type rule.

I really hate a rule that is trying to dictate how the sport is played and narrows it down one specific path.

It's so closed minded."
You are entitled to your opinion but not the insult.

Teams can have four possessions to play as they wish either side of my kick requirement - it's a modest ask to put- God forbid - 'ball contests' back in the game.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2632 - 19/03/2024 17:10:21    2532207

Link

Replying To bdbuddah:  "It's funny how the definition of a dour game has changed over the years.
Year's ago a dour game was usually a game with loads of pulling and dragging, occasional scraps breaking out and some really tough hits while competing for possession.

Nowadays a dour game involves thickest of blankets, and continual uncontested hand passing.

In the old days I sometimes used to find a dour game compelling as while beautiful football was occasional you almost felt leaving you had witnessed a battle.

I can't say I find any modern dour games compelling in the same way."
Do you have any ideas how to increase 'ball contests'?

Does the below have any merit - slightly modified from above?

"A team is allowed no more than a series of three consecutive passes, by hand or foot, after which the ball must be kicked at least two zones from Zones 1, 2 or 3, to at least Zones 3, 4 or 5, respectively, or register a score or wide from Zone 5. After satisfying each such inter-zone kick, the team may take up to three more consecutive passes before the next requirement."

Zone 1 behind Defensive 45
Zone 2 behind Defensive 65
Zone 3 between both 65s
Zone 4 beyond Attacking 65
Zone 5 beyond Attacking 45

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2632 - 19/03/2024 17:30:21    2532211

Link