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Welcome to the vagueness of GAA rules, they really are next to useless when you read them.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4941 - 07/08/2023 10:25:23 2499341 Link 0 |
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A perfect solution and very skilful.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4941 - 07/08/2023 10:28:13 2499342 Link 1 |
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That's where you enter the realm of quantum physics :-)
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3126 - 07/08/2023 12:29:28 2499361 Link 0 |
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Yes clear separation as viewed by a referee who is up with play. Not neccessarily for a supporter 50 or 100 yards away or watching on TV.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13884 - 07/08/2023 14:28:59 2499375 Link 0 |
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Its definitely a grey area, we are calling it a "hand pass" when its not, 90% of them are throws. The ball may roll of the fingers but thats still a throw. Should it be banned? hard to say, in the current swarm game there really is not a lot of alternatives. If the swarmers know the hurl has to be used for release they will target the hurl of the player in possession even more, which will slow the game and also turn the advantage more in favor of the swarmers. The challenge is really around the rules of throwing the ball, underarm, sidearm and or overhead. Do we go whole hog and allow baseball style throws half the length of the field? So on one side we slow the game and give a negative swarm approach the advantage, the other is we stop calling it a hand pass and introduce a "throw" but would need clear and concise rules around where, when and how a throw can be utilized. IMHO as a former club player and long time viewer of the game, its hard to change from what we grew up with, but the game changes. We should just leave it as is for now as I don't see an alternative that wouldn't be more destructive to the game. BostonGuy (Galway) - Posts: 133 - 07/08/2023 15:47:28 2499392 Link 1 |
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What do you do if you are bottled up? Does the referee need to call "ruck" like rugby and the handpass doesn't need to be off the hurl? It'd become more like rugby if players could just bottle a player up and make him cough up possession.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1259 - 07/08/2023 15:54:31 2499393 Link 0 |
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How about not allowing yourself to be bottled up?
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1960 - 07/08/2023 20:09:51 2499426 Link 0 |
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Or why do players who gain valuable possession turn into traffic and try to "break a tackle"? Hence what you describe. Why in soccer do you not get "swarmed"? Why in Basketball does doubling up usually end in fouling the player with possession? You want to eliminate swarming from a game? Dont hold onto the ball, then alter the rules to properly define a tackle, in Rugby it is clear in GAA its staring in the headlights with chais at times. Most swarm tackling is actually physically impeding a players movement which is a foul in most team sport. We need to look harder at this. The handpass is not the issue, its players coming from behind a player with the ball and shoving him off it, or poking him with the hurl. You only have to look at a player with a ball/sliothar crashing into a defender without trying to avoid the defender, again its a foul in any other spirt but GAA, madness.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4941 - 07/08/2023 21:42:50 2499438 Link 0 |
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If you are bottled up you loose the ball. Simple and fair! Does a player deserve reward for gaining possession in the hand?
ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 708 - 07/08/2023 22:00:21 2499445 Link 0 |
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Well Zulu, if this a shot scourge you make it out to be, it all goes back to the Cork team of the late nineties who presented us with the short Pick out and possession hurling and of course your own beloved Daithi Mac Ghiolla Phadraog, took it to the fair altogether, with every team he ever coached. For the seventeen out of eighteen interegnum of Kilkenny, Cork and Tipp there was SFA from Conor, who incidentally an ex Limerick as well.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4467 - 08/08/2023 07:32:44 2499454 Link 0 |
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When I was young it was a frequent sight to see players going off with bony injuries or belts across the head. That is why Helmets were brought in over f.ifty years ago. In six years st the to I cannot recall one player going off injured as a result of an injury inflicted b a Limerick Player. I think the game is ss sake, tough and good as it ever was. Last years Munster and All Ireland Finals were as good games as I ever saw in well over sixty years going to games. I believe we should appreciate all the great hurling we have the privilege of being. This Limerick Team is up there with the best I have seen. Maybe people should just dit back and enjoy them and that includes Conor O'Donovan, after he in an Effin Man.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4467 - 08/08/2023 07:46:26 2499456 Link 1 |
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Allow an over arm hand pass, thats what most do anyway when bottled up. Ban the under arm hand pass unless from the hurl. tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1427 - 08/08/2023 10:16:15 2499469 Link 0 |
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How do you do that if you are trying to win a ball in a ruck on the ground? So you pick up the ball in a ruck, does everybody move out of your way so you can hand pass off the hurl?
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1259 - 08/08/2023 11:44:16 2499493 Link 0 |
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Sure they throw those over arm hand pass, if they do an over hand hand pass maybe they need to throw it up a good few inches and then hand pass? There should be absolutely clear sight between the ball and the hand (say 6 inches), if there isn't then its a free against. ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1259 - 08/08/2023 11:46:02 2499494 Link 0 |
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Maybe the effin Limerick man hasnt got >20/20 vision and cant see the mm of space that his ancestors can see. You can talk all day about how great hurling is as a game but it doesnt mean we can ignore blatant fouls.
ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 708 - 08/08/2023 11:51:09 2499499 Link 0 |
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Play the feckin ball out of the ruck on the ground with your big effn stick. Hurling is meant to be a stick and ball game not a handball game. Of course refs could be more active in stopping rucks developing by throwing iy in between TWO players as per rule, not 23 as they let happen. Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1960 - 08/08/2023 12:16:04 2499505 Link 2 |
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Please show who is throwing the ball give examples,it's not the GAA fault if the game is too fast for you,is there a tiny amount of throws,yes but you can't say they are just all throwing the ball when if you slow it down 99% is within the rules, remember the league final,when ref pull the throwing of the ball and when it was actually slowed down the ref actually got them wrong,you do realise they have a ref committee and are reviewing these games.
cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 783 - 08/08/2023 15:49:00 2499571 Link 1 |
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If you try to pull on a ball on the ground in a ruck you will certainly be blown for dangerous play. And being as you will have little control over where it goes likely there will just be another ruck where it ends up. Have a good read up about hurling pre WW1. Even up to WW2. There's plenty of material. Then decide would you rather have watched that than what we are watching currently.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13884 - 08/08/2023 16:16:17 2499583 Link 0 |
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If you leave the ball 6 inches from your hand before you hit it then likely be an opponent will just catch it and run off with it.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13884 - 08/08/2023 16:17:24 2499584 Link 0 |
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If the difference between a "throw" and a legitimate "hand pass" is so slight that it cannot be detected and when it was being called up it was often in error means that you either keep it as is - which i favour; or ban it, which will lead to one unholy mess, because anyone who thinks they might have time to use their stick in tight situations played at the pace of the modern game clearly is not watching closely. It would be interesting to see what the opinion of current players and management is. Not heard any demands for a ban from that quarter, BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3126 - 08/08/2023 16:28:46 2499587 Link 0 |