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McDonagh Cup Link To All-Ireland To Be Removed?

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "
Replying To legendzxix:  "[quote=Pikeman96:  "Sorry, I'm the one that got things wrong this time. As things stand, the provincial round-robin groups can provide three semi-finalists, but not three quarter-finalists.

However, just to be pedantic again..... :)

A province can still currently provide three quarter-finalists. Say for example that Kerry reach a McDonagh Cup final, and beat the third-placed Leinster team in their subsequent preliminary quarter-final.

Now they'd go into the quarter-finals proper along with the Munster runners-up and the third-placed Munster team, so Munster would have three quarter-finalists after all."
That's why I specifically said "Leinster and Munster championships"!"
I'd say this is getting tiresome for others now as well as me and maybe you too, but what you actually said was:
"if one province can provide 3 quarter-finalists, should they be denied that opportunity?"

I've shown you how both Munster and Leinster actually already have an opportunity to provide three."]I like the way you exclude "While there will be reservations about 4 teams qualifying from provincial championships"! ;-)

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8289 - 28/06/2023 17:03:15    2490482

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "You got it spot on.
Imagine thinking you could theoretically draw 1 game in the Munster championship and qualify for the AI Quarter final on scoring difference but yet people think you have some business being in the championship? And that 20 games in each province should be played to knock out 1 team?

The Munster counties want to completely have their cake and eat it. 4 out of 5 of them through and no relegation. Is there anything else we can do, maybe play the matches on hilly pitches with the Munster counties playing downhill with the wind?

I have never felt it fair that Westmeath (or very close Wexford, could easily be Dublin in another year) should have to face relegation and the damage that does to hurling in the county while the Munster counties don't face this. Why do Waterford deserve to win no match last year and not face that prospect?

If things are going to change, they need to go back to knock out provincials and have round robins with promotion and relegation for all.

Come back with something better to promote the game and make investment in the game in Laois, Westmeath, Dublin, Offaly etc a good investment rather than tinkering the playing field to suit the elite while these counties yo-yo."
The Joe Mcdonagh counties minus the TV star of course,Antrim,Dublin,Wexford and others and others with ambition need to oppose this.

jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1601 - 28/06/2023 17:04:06    2490484

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Replying To jobber:  "This is coming from Munster who want to have 4 out of 5 qualifying 80% to the All Ireland series which would make the football scene look competitive.They are interested in promoting hurling in KERRY Westmeath,Antrim,Carlow and Laois all right!!!! No way should this happen until Croke Park gives its best competition and competitors the tools it needs.So Tipp want 11 counties out of 32 competing for the All Ireland.Rememeber of the2024 Mcdonagh counties Westmeath have beaten and drew with Wexford in the championship in the ladt two years and Laois beat Dublin in 2021.If either of us were to win Mcdonagh next year a hell of a task why would we not deserve a crack at a Wexford,Dublin or Waterford?"
You don't really deserve a crack though because you got to the last 8 by beating less good teams.

Also you have to look at the big picture, it'd better to have a proper 12 championship, having an extra developing team properly involved than to have the finalists playing a 1 off game each year.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 28/06/2023 19:27:47    2490508

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Would it not make more sense to remove the link between the All-Ireland championship and the Joe McDonagh for the Joe McDonagh runners-up and to keep it for the Joe McDonagh winners?

Could have Leinster 4th vs Munster 4th in a neutral venue

The winner of that would then play away to the 3rd from the other province

The other 3rd-placed team still remaining would then play away to the Joe McDonagh winners

ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 28/06/2023 21:36:27    2490527

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Replying To thelongridge:  "I think it's worth considering. How do you bring the McDonagh Cup finalists to compete with the McCarthy Cup teams?"
Here's how I'd raise developing county hurling standards:

I think the 'McDonagh Cup' teams could be brought further into the fold. Recently, I found the 'Johnny Kelly Plan' (Offaly Manager) interesting with its main goal of giving such "squeezed middle" teams an opportunity to compete against stronger teams on an ongoing basis.

With that goal and mitigation of 'mismatch / blowout risk' in mind, I present / would trial the following:

- 16 team League Div 1, with three hierarchical / ranked Groups 1A, 1B & 1C, of 5, 6 & 5 teams, respectively.

- For a 10-match schedule, teams in Group 1A play those in Groups 1A & 1B; Group 1B plays Groups 1A & 1C; and Group 1C plays Groups 1B & 1C.

- One up / one down, with no League KO stage.

- Top 11 (Groups 1A & 1B teams at the beginning of the League) enter straight KO Provincial & AI Championships, while the Next 6 (Group 1C teams & Div 2 Champ) contest the KO McDonagh Cup.

- To limit match quantity, consider if certain matches could 'double up' as Provincial KO and League ties (where possible, avoid all-Group 1B Provincial ties, as these cannot double up, and would need to be played separately).

In this, my 'quirky' 16-team Div 1 structure, 'lower McCarthy Cup teams' (Group 1B) straddle the 'bigger teams' (Group 1A) and 'McDonagh Cup teams' (Group 1C) providing all counties with a 'mixed quality' schedule and an opportunity to develop. Of note, promoted and relegated teams continue to 'repeat play' five or six of their 10 opponents in consecutive Div 1 seasons.

It would take a good few years for the developing counties to improve, but this would give them adequate, repeated match practice, against strong opposition.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2894 - 28/06/2023 23:05:33    2490543

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "
Replying To legendzxix:  "[quote=Pikeman96:  "Sorry, I'm the one that got things wrong this time. As things stand, the provincial round-robin groups can provide three semi-finalists, but not three quarter-finalists.

However, just to be pedantic again..... :)

A province can still currently provide three quarter-finalists. Say for example that Kerry reach a McDonagh Cup final, and beat the third-placed Leinster team in their subsequent preliminary quarter-final.

Now they'd go into the quarter-finals proper along with the Munster runners-up and the third-placed Munster team, so Munster would have three quarter-finalists after all."
That's why I specifically said "Leinster and Munster championships"!"
I'd say this is getting tiresome for others now as well as me and maybe you too, but what you actually said was:
"if one province can provide 3 quarter-finalists, should they be denied that opportunity?"

I've shown you how both Munster and Leinster actually already have an opportunity to provide three."]Certainly is getting tiresome for me anyway. Had to skip over the last page or 2 of comments to get to yours, which was the last one on display tonight!

Why cant we just go with the logical rational set up? I.e Scrap the league for McCarthy Cup competitors or have it as an official pre-season competition since in reality it serves no other purpose in hurling anymore. Then hold the Leinster and Munster championships as stand alone competitions. Follow this on with an open draw knock out McCarthy Cup competition. That way all eligible teams in Leinster and Munster are involved in the All Ireland series and surely everyone is happy since every team is given the same chance? .

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1953 - 29/06/2023 00:12:52    2490546

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Of course this sop to weaker counties should be cut. Imagine Carlow or Leitrim footballers feeling entitled to face Derry this weekend while likes of Galway and Rossies are eliminated. Offaly annihilation by an average Tipp team was embarrassing. Carlow competed well against Dublin but Dublin are not much above McDonagh in reality. Westmeath would be hammered in a knockout game against any top 6 county.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1920 - 29/06/2023 00:57:52    2490548

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "
Replying To Pikeman96:  "[quote=legendzxix:  "[quote=Pikeman96:  "Sorry, I'm the one that got things wrong this time. As things stand, the provincial round-robin groups can provide three semi-finalists, but not three quarter-finalists.

However, just to be pedantic again..... :)

A province can still currently provide three quarter-finalists. Say for example that Kerry reach a McDonagh Cup final, and beat the third-placed Leinster team in their subsequent preliminary quarter-final.

Now they'd go into the quarter-finals proper along with the Munster runners-up and the third-placed Munster team, so Munster would have three quarter-finalists after all."
That's why I specifically said "Leinster and Munster championships"!"
I'd say this is getting tiresome for others now as well as me and maybe you too, but what you actually said was:
"if one province can provide 3 quarter-finalists, should they be denied that opportunity?"

I've shown you how both Munster and Leinster actually already have an opportunity to provide three."]Certainly is getting tiresome for me anyway. Had to skip over the last page or 2 of comments to get to yours, which was the last one on display tonight!

Why cant we just go with the logical rational set up? I.e Scrap the league for McCarthy Cup competitors or have it as an official pre-season competition since in reality it serves no other purpose in hurling anymore. Then hold the Leinster and Munster championships as stand alone competitions. Follow this on with an open draw knock out McCarthy Cup competition. That way all eligible teams in Leinster and Munster are involved in the All Ireland series and surely everyone is happy since every team is given the same chance? ."]Something along these lines makes sense to me.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 29/06/2023 10:24:25    2490568

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This has been a problem for the GAA with decades. Westmeath and Laois had some fine players in the 1980's and entered the Leinster championship, competitive in a number of years. Then one team ships a hiding and the debate begins again. We lost to Tipperary by 24 points in 2009, nobody was talking about leaving the MacCarthy cup etc.

I think the only way for the so called weaker counties to raise their profile is to compete regularly against the bigger sides, hence I'd be in favour of expanding the MacCarthy Cup. I think it should be up to those counties themselves what they want to do, but if they enter the MacCarthy cup, they should do so for three years at a time. Hard to measure progress in one year?

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 29/06/2023 10:59:06    2490579

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Now that I'm finished with the tiresome stuff (!), am going to return to the main point here.

So far as I can see, the only real benefit to maintaining the link between the McDonagh Cup and that year's McCarthy Cup is that the McDonagh Cup finalists get to play a home match against a top tier county, at a time when interest in hurling in that county is likely to be at a relative high.

However, all indications are that they'll lose that match, and maybe quite heavily. This in turn might kill off some of the new-found enthusiasm for hurling in that county. As previously pointed out, apart from the surprise win for Laois over Dublin in 2019, no other McDonagh Cup team has managed to keep the margin to single digits in any preliminary quarter-final, and the average margin of victory is 19 points.

And other benefits of scrapping the system that allows McDonagh Cup finalists to play in the McCarthy Cup in the same year:
- McDonagh Cup doesn't have to be finished as early, so more opportunity for rest weeks along the way for competing counties.
- Opportunity to play the McDonagh Cup Final as a curtain-raiser on a bigger day, such as one of the McCarthy Cup semi-finals
- Winner of the McDonagh Cup has much more time to build momentum and develop their squad before going out to play "the big boys" in the following year's championship.

Finally, would remove how the surprise relegation of a so-called "stronger" county (or even so-called slightly stronger!) might actually work in their favour the following year. Am highly conscious of this because of how close Wexford came to relegation this year.

No disrespect of any of the McDonagh Cup counties, but if we'd been relegated, we'd probably have been hot favourites to at least make the final of next year's McDonagh. This would have been an easier route for us into the McCarthy Cup knock-out stages than having to battle it out with Kilkenny, Galway, Dublin, and whoever else for one of the top three spots in Leinster.

To me, it's clear that the link should be scrapped, and the McDonagh Cup winners get to end their season on a happy note of winning a trophy rather than a bad one of maybe shipping a heavy beating, and then have more time to build for the following year.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2622 - 29/06/2023 11:11:12    2490582

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Now that I'm finished with the tiresome stuff (!), am going to return to the main point here.

So far as I can see, the only real benefit to maintaining the link between the McDonagh Cup and that year's McCarthy Cup is that the McDonagh Cup finalists get to play a home match against a top tier county, at a time when interest in hurling in that county is likely to be at a relative high.

However, all indications are that they'll lose that match, and maybe quite heavily. This in turn might kill off some of the new-found enthusiasm for hurling in that county. As previously pointed out, apart from the surprise win for Laois over Dublin in 2019, no other McDonagh Cup team has managed to keep the margin to single digits in any preliminary quarter-final, and the average margin of victory is 19 points.

And other benefits of scrapping the system that allows McDonagh Cup finalists to play in the McCarthy Cup in the same year:
- McDonagh Cup doesn't have to be finished as early, so more opportunity for rest weeks along the way for competing counties.
- Opportunity to play the McDonagh Cup Final as a curtain-raiser on a bigger day, such as one of the McCarthy Cup semi-finals
- Winner of the McDonagh Cup has much more time to build momentum and develop their squad before going out to play "the big boys" in the following year's championship.

Finally, would remove how the surprise relegation of a so-called "stronger" county (or even so-called slightly stronger!) might actually work in their favour the following year. Am highly conscious of this because of how close Wexford came to relegation this year.

No disrespect of any of the McDonagh Cup counties, but if we'd been relegated, we'd probably have been hot favourites to at least make the final of next year's McDonagh. This would have been an easier route for us into the McCarthy Cup knock-out stages than having to battle it out with Kilkenny, Galway, Dublin, and whoever else for one of the top three spots in Leinster.

To me, it's clear that the link should be scrapped, and the McDonagh Cup winners get to end their season on a happy note of winning a trophy rather than a bad one of maybe shipping a heavy beating, and then have more time to build for the following year."
Noone should be protected from relegation. The rules changed in February. If Kerry win the McDonagh, Munster will expand to 6. Whoever finishes 6th, most likely Kerry being honest and stating the obvious, Kerry will return to the McDonagh. Leinster meanwhile would have 5 teams for a year and be free of any relegation threat for a change. All provinces are guaranteed 5 counties. The 11th team is determined by the McDonagh winner.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8289 - 29/06/2023 11:24:14    2490585

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Replying To slayer:  "This has been a problem for the GAA with decades. Westmeath and Laois had some fine players in the 1980's and entered the Leinster championship, competitive in a number of years. Then one team ships a hiding and the debate begins again. We lost to Tipperary by 24 points in 2009, nobody was talking about leaving the MacCarthy cup etc.

I think the only way for the so called weaker counties to raise their profile is to compete regularly against the bigger sides, hence I'd be in favour of expanding the MacCarthy Cup. I think it should be up to those counties themselves what they want to do, but if they enter the MacCarthy cup, they should do so for three years at a time. Hard to measure progress in one year?"
Westmeath, Antrim, Offaly, Carlow and Laois were in the Leinster championship regularly pre Round Robin days. The numbers got cut when the Round Robins were introduced in order to complete them quicker with more "high quality" games.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13884 - 29/06/2023 11:30:35    2490588

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Noone should be protected from relegation. The rules changed in February. If Kerry win the McDonagh, Munster will expand to 6. Whoever finishes 6th, most likely Kerry being honest and stating the obvious, Kerry will return to the McDonagh. Leinster meanwhile would have 5 teams for a year and be free of any relegation threat for a change. All provinces are guaranteed 5 counties. The 11th team is determined by the McDonagh winner."
The 5 top Munster counties are still effectively protected from relegation though. For one to be relegated Kerry would 1st have to be promoted. And then would have to not finish last the following year.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13884 - 29/06/2023 11:34:02    2490589

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Replying To slayer:  "This has been a problem for the GAA with decades. Westmeath and Laois had some fine players in the 1980's and entered the Leinster championship, competitive in a number of years. Then one team ships a hiding and the debate begins again. We lost to Tipperary by 24 points in 2009, nobody was talking about leaving the MacCarthy cup etc.

I think the only way for the so called weaker counties to raise their profile is to compete regularly against the bigger sides, hence I'd be in favour of expanding the MacCarthy Cup. I think it should be up to those counties themselves what they want to do, but if they enter the MacCarthy cup, they should do so for three years at a time. Hard to measure progress in one year?"
Interesting. I normally don't get involved in discussions about suggested new structures, because so much would have to fall into place for them to actually happen, but have teased this one through -

To expand the McCarthy Cup obviously means expanding both Leinster and Munster. In Leinster, you could have ten teams, split into two groups of five. Based on positions in this year's Leinster Championship & McDonagh Cup, example groups might be:
Group A: Kilkenny, Dublin, Antrim, Laois, Carlow
Group B: Galway, Wexford, Westmeath, Offaly, Down

The two group winners play the Leinster Final. Winner there goes to All-Ireland semi-final, and loser goes to quarter-final.

In Munster, all six teams compete. Similarly, top two play the Munster Final, with winner going to All-Ireland semi-final and loser going to quarter-final.

Now the tricky bit:
Preliminary quarter-finals: One second-placed team in Leinster v 3rd in Munster, and the other second-placed in Leinster v 4th in Munster
Quarter-finals: Winners of these two matches v the provincial runners-up
Semi-finals: Winners of these two matches v the provincial champions

Still a major incentive to qualify for and/or win a provincial final since it would remove you from at least one round of the knock-out games.

Possible opposition No. 1: People would say it's weighted in favour of Munster, because four teams out of six would go through. They might even insult Kerry by saying only one "real" county would lose out. But still, it would be four from Munster and four from Leinster going through, so fair enough if you look at it that way.

Possible opposition No. 2: People would say it's difficult for the so-called "weaker" teams in Leinster to make the knock-out stages. But still, it wouldn't be impossible, those six would be getting a good mix of matches anyway, and five of them would still be there the following year to get those matches again.

And I say five, because I don't see how you could guarantee everybody three years in this structure unless you remove promotion from what would then be the next tier.

The bottom teams of each Leinster group would play off in a relegation final, and be replaced the following year by the winners of the second tier competition.

Munster counties would still be safe from relegation, but the big difference would be that there'd be no other Munster county trying to get in there anyway, since they'd all be already there.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2622 - 29/06/2023 11:53:10    2490598

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Replying To ElGranSenor:  "Would it not make more sense to remove the link between the All-Ireland championship and the Joe McDonagh for the Joe McDonagh runners-up and to keep it for the Joe McDonagh winners?

Could have Leinster 4th vs Munster 4th in a neutral venue

The winner of that would then play away to the 3rd from the other province

The other 3rd-placed team still remaining would then play away to the Joe McDonagh winners"
thats not a bad idea for Mcdonagh but makes a mockery of the round robins in both provinces.Waterford could draw with Tipp lose all their other matches and qualify for the All Ireland series on a-30 scoring record.5 of the 6 counties in Joe Mcdonagh are Leinster counties.We were promised this so as to let Galway and Antrim enter Leinstet.If Munster dont like this let them take Galway and Antrim.Its time Leinster called the Munter bluff.

jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1601 - 29/06/2023 12:19:16    2490609

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Noone should be protected from relegation. The rules changed in February. If Kerry win the McDonagh, Munster will expand to 6. Whoever finishes 6th, most likely Kerry being honest and stating the obvious, Kerry will return to the McDonagh. Leinster meanwhile would have 5 teams for a year and be free of any relegation threat for a change. All provinces are guaranteed 5 counties. The 11th team is determined by the McDonagh winner."
Not sure what your point is here. The only place I made any mention at all of somebody being safe was relegation was in the suggested alternative structure I put up in response to Slayer's comment (about how all six Munster teams would be safe since there'd be no other Munster team seeking entry there). That wasn't even posted yet at the time you wrote this.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that Wexford should be safe from relegation. What I meant was that if a county like us did happen to be relegated, there shouldn't be the silver lining of an easier route to the knock-out stages of the following year's McCarthy Cup. Instead, that county would have to win the McDonagh Cup the following year (not just reach the final of it), and then wait until the next year again before resuming action in the top tier.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2622 - 29/06/2023 12:48:50    2490613

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Interesting. I normally don't get involved in discussions about suggested new structures, because so much would have to fall into place for them to actually happen, but have teased this one through -

To expand the McCarthy Cup obviously means expanding both Leinster and Munster. In Leinster, you could have ten teams, split into two groups of five. Based on positions in this year's Leinster Championship & McDonagh Cup, example groups might be:
Group A: Kilkenny, Dublin, Antrim, Laois, Carlow
Group B: Galway, Wexford, Westmeath, Offaly, Down

The two group winners play the Leinster Final. Winner there goes to All-Ireland semi-final, and loser goes to quarter-final.

In Munster, all six teams compete. Similarly, top two play the Munster Final, with winner going to All-Ireland semi-final and loser going to quarter-final.

Now the tricky bit:
Preliminary quarter-finals: One second-placed team in Leinster v 3rd in Munster, and the other second-placed in Leinster v 4th in Munster
Quarter-finals: Winners of these two matches v the provincial runners-up
Semi-finals: Winners of these two matches v the provincial champions

Still a major incentive to qualify for and/or win a provincial final since it would remove you from at least one round of the knock-out games.

Possible opposition No. 1: People would say it's weighted in favour of Munster, because four teams out of six would go through. They might even insult Kerry by saying only one "real" county would lose out. But still, it would be four from Munster and four from Leinster going through, so fair enough if you look at it that way.

Possible opposition No. 2: People would say it's difficult for the so-called "weaker" teams in Leinster to make the knock-out stages. But still, it wouldn't be impossible, those six would be getting a good mix of matches anyway, and five of them would still be there the following year to get those matches again.

And I say five, because I don't see how you could guarantee everybody three years in this structure unless you remove promotion from what would then be the next tier.

The bottom teams of each Leinster group would play off in a relegation final, and be replaced the following year by the winners of the second tier competition.

Munster counties would still be safe from relegation, but the big difference would be that there'd be no other Munster county trying to get in there anyway, since they'd all be already there."
How about put Galway and Antrim in Munster. Have 2 groups of 8 with Westmeath, Offaly, Carlow, Kilkenny, Dublin, Laois, Wexford, and Kildare in Leinster.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13884 - 29/06/2023 13:21:16    2490624

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Replying To Viking66:  "The 5 top Munster counties are still effectively protected from relegation though. For one to be relegated Kerry would 1st have to be promoted. And then would have to not finish last the following year."
If Munster is the more competitive province and Leinster carries more threat of relegation, is a fair balance achieved?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8289 - 29/06/2023 13:26:34    2490625

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Replying To Viking66:  "How about put Galway and Antrim in Munster. Have 2 groups of 8 with Westmeath, Offaly, Carlow, Kilkenny, Dublin, Laois, Wexford, and Kildare in Leinster."
It's an alternative all right, but likely opposition there would be how there'd only be four teams going through from the "stronger" Munster group, and another four from the "weaker" Leinster one.

In particular, highly unlikely that Kilkenny would ever finish outside the top four. Hopefully the same for ourselves (despite the disappointments of this year), particularly with Galway out of the mix. Could probably say the same for Dublin.

So, there'd be accusations that Kilkenny in particular, and probably Wexford and Dublin too, essentially get a free pass to the knock-out series each year. But meanwhile Limerick, Clare, Tipperary, Waterford, Cork and Galway have to battle it out for just four places between them, with maybe an on-the-rise Antrim or Kerry in the mix there too.

Could get around that by offering five places for Munster and only three for Leinster, but then you'd be into a different type of opposition.

Finally, think of the expenses for the Antrim County Board, if they're facing at least three and maybe four overnight trips to the opposite end of the country!

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2622 - 29/06/2023 13:55:10    2490632

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "It's an alternative all right, but likely opposition there would be how there'd only be four teams going through from the "stronger" Munster group, and another four from the "weaker" Leinster one.

In particular, highly unlikely that Kilkenny would ever finish outside the top four. Hopefully the same for ourselves (despite the disappointments of this year), particularly with Galway out of the mix. Could probably say the same for Dublin.

So, there'd be accusations that Kilkenny in particular, and probably Wexford and Dublin too, essentially get a free pass to the knock-out series each year. But meanwhile Limerick, Clare, Tipperary, Waterford, Cork and Galway have to battle it out for just four places between them, with maybe an on-the-rise Antrim or Kerry in the mix there too.

Could get around that by offering five places for Munster and only three for Leinster, but then you'd be into a different type of opposition.

Finally, think of the expenses for the Antrim County Board, if they're facing at least three and maybe four overnight trips to the opposite end of the country!"
It's only a semi serious suggestion Pikeman! But it would mean more evenly competitive games for Munster and Leinster counties and Galway, as well as, most importantly, more competitive games for middle tier counties which might help bring up the standard there.
A second tier with 1 up and 1 down something like it is now. If an Ulster/Connacht team wins the 2nd tier they replace whoever finishes last in Munster. If a Leinster team wins it they replace whoever finishes last in Leinster.
Scrap the League semis and finals, whoever finishes top wins like a league should be, and that would give the extra couple of weekends needed. And give any of the Ulster counties involved in Munster a travelling allowance. Galways travelling costs would be reduced as they border 2 Munster counties as it is.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13884 - 29/06/2023 14:22:58    2490641

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