National Forum

Jim Mcguinness-Right As Usual On Championship

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It is unlikely the GAA are going to make wholesale changes from this season. The main wrinkle to iron out is allowing a weekend off or not after the league finals. The preliminary quarter-finals are debatable but unlikely to be dropped after this year.
On keeping league finals or allowing for a free weekend, the standout options are;

Option 1:
4 rounds of league, a rest weekend, 3 rounds of league and league finals. A weekend off then before the provincial championships.

Option 2:
League as this year in 2 rounds, a weekend off, 3 rounds, a weekend off, 2 rounds and league finals. A weekend off but then all provincial championships played out over 5 weekends.

Option 3:
3 rounds of league, a rest weekend, 3 rounds of league, a rest weekend, 1 round of league, league finals and provincial first round. While there would be no rest weekend after the league finals, teams wouldn't be playing for more than 3 consecutive weekends. With this option, in the event of a draw in league finals they could go straight to penalties so as not to be impacting too much on counties playing on the weekend after the league finals.

Option 4:
No change from this year and carry on!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7806 - 26/07/2023 16:36:38    2497130

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Replying To legendzxix:  "It is unlikely the GAA are going to make wholesale changes from this season. The main wrinkle to iron out is allowing a weekend off or not after the league finals. The preliminary quarter-finals are debatable but unlikely to be dropped after this year.
On keeping league finals or allowing for a free weekend, the standout options are;

Option 1:
4 rounds of league, a rest weekend, 3 rounds of league and league finals. A weekend off then before the provincial championships.

Option 2:
League as this year in 2 rounds, a weekend off, 3 rounds, a weekend off, 2 rounds and league finals. A weekend off but then all provincial championships played out over 5 weekends.

Option 3:
3 rounds of league, a rest weekend, 3 rounds of league, a rest weekend, 1 round of league, league finals and provincial first round. While there would be no rest weekend after the league finals, teams wouldn't be playing for more than 3 consecutive weekends. With this option, in the event of a draw in league finals they could go straight to penalties so as not to be impacting too much on counties playing on the weekend after the league finals.

Option 4:
No change from this year and carry on!"
Changes had to be made but having the All Ireland final in July just doesn't seem right to me, there is no build up to it and it all seems so rushed,
I suppose they need Croke Park free for concerts.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2733 - 26/07/2023 16:47:16    2497136

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Replying To legendzxix:  "It is unlikely the GAA are going to make wholesale changes from this season. The main wrinkle to iron out is allowing a weekend off or not after the league finals. The preliminary quarter-finals are debatable but unlikely to be dropped after this year.
On keeping league finals or allowing for a free weekend, the standout options are;

Option 1:
4 rounds of league, a rest weekend, 3 rounds of league and league finals. A weekend off then before the provincial championships.

Option 2:
League as this year in 2 rounds, a weekend off, 3 rounds, a weekend off, 2 rounds and league finals. A weekend off but then all provincial championships played out over 5 weekends.

Option 3:
3 rounds of league, a rest weekend, 3 rounds of league, a rest weekend, 1 round of league, league finals and provincial first round. While there would be no rest weekend after the league finals, teams wouldn't be playing for more than 3 consecutive weekends. With this option, in the event of a draw in league finals they could go straight to penalties so as not to be impacting too much on counties playing on the weekend after the league finals.

Option 4:
No change from this year and carry on!"
It is unlikely but here will be wholesale changes over time
Obviously you will never want wholesale changes to the structure as it affects your county but changes need to include changing from playing league in its entirety before prov9ncial championship in its entirety before all ireland is played
Club championships need to be played through the summer while inter County is played as well

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 26/07/2023 17:52:24    2497149

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The well respected punters on RTE
Canavan, Fitzmaurice etc have great opinions on this.

Scrap FBD and all warm up tournaments.
January-Club semi-finals and finals
Run off the provincial championships in Feb-March
League April-May
Championship groups etc June-August
Plenty of space for rest and recovery

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1667 - 26/07/2023 18:58:19    2497161

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Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "The well respected punters on RTE
Canavan, Fitzmaurice etc have great opinions on this.

Scrap FBD and all warm up tournaments.
January-Club semi-finals and finals
Run off the provincial championships in Feb-March
League April-May
Championship groups etc June-August
Plenty of space for rest and recovery"
What's the obsession with playing off provincial championships stand alone before League or championship. Same with playing league to a conclusion before championship

Structure of year should be like soccer with league played through year and provincial knockout and an all ireland competition also played
This would allow for plenty of club games and inter County players to play for clubs through year as well if managed properly

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 26/07/2023 19:22:00    2497163

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Replying To KillingFields:  "What's the obsession with playing off provincial championships stand alone before League or championship. Same with playing league to a conclusion before championship

Structure of year should be like soccer with league played through year and provincial knockout and an all ireland competition also played
This would allow for plenty of club games and inter County players to play for clubs through year as well if managed properly"
I've said it lots but the structure in soccer is terrible. You look at FA Cup and League in that and how the status of them has declined over the years.

For competitions to be played in parallel they really have to be somewhat close in esteem.

Premier League and Champions League works because whilst the Champions League is more prestigious it is also not the bread and butter for teams and is tournament style.

In the GAA I could see league and Provincials played consecutively but All Ireland Championship would really have to stand alone.

I also don't think it makes sense to do this though either as the football season needs to be streamlined.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4193 - 27/07/2023 11:29:07    2497248

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I've said it lots but the structure in soccer is terrible. You look at FA Cup and League in that and how the status of them has declined over the years.

For competitions to be played in parallel they really have to be somewhat close in esteem.

Premier League and Champions League works because whilst the Champions League is more prestigious it is also not the bread and butter for teams and is tournament style.

In the GAA I could see league and Provincials played consecutively but All Ireland Championship would really have to stand alone.

I also don't think it makes sense to do this though either as the football season needs to be streamlined."
the fa cup has declined in status for many other reasons. it would be worse if it was played off in full before any other comp or after any comp.
the champions league/europa league only involve a few teams from each competition in europe as well. it works well because its the top teams

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 27/07/2023 12:10:47    2497257

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Replying To KillingFields:  "the fa cup has declined in status for many other reasons. it would be worse if it was played off in full before any other comp or after any comp.
the champions league/europa league only involve a few teams from each competition in europe as well. it works well because its the top teams"
The FAI have to compete with couch potatoes who think soccer is played by little men on a TV screen. Pretty much a hopeless battle but fair play to them.

GAA has decided to not to compete for the airwaves for half the year by telescoping the inter county season. Thus losing future supporters, even if they do mostly only watch on TV. What sense this makes is increasingly unclear.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2511 - 27/07/2023 13:12:25    2497278

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Changes had to be made but having the All Ireland final in July just doesn't seem right to me, there is no build up to it and it all seems so rushed,
I suppose they need Croke Park free for concerts.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2444 - 26/07/2023 16:47:16 2497136


The GAA seem determined to stick with the current split season.
Current intercounty season: February to July
Current club season: August to January.

Many club players want to be on holidays in July or August.

What would be wrong with?:
Intercounty season: April to September
Club season: October to March.

I know some people will give out about the weather in October onwards. September training after August holidays will have club players ready. County championships can complete from October to mid December. January to mid March the for the provincial club and All-Ireland club championships.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7806 - 27/07/2023 13:24:55    2497281

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Instead of alternating two windows, would five work better? - say County two 9-week windows (approx Apr-May & Aug-Sept) with Club three 7-week windows (approx Feb-Mar, Jun-Jul & Oct-Nov and Off Season Dec-Jan.

Inter-county KO Prov Championships and short group-phase league in the Spring determines the "Sam 12, P O Se 12 and Tailteann 8" AICs in the late Summer/ Early Autumn (KO, with or without initial group phase).

The five windows better allocate sunny and less sunny days.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2567 - 27/07/2023 23:09:39    2497375

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The CPA campaign to "fix the fixtures" has managed to do the following:
1. Leave 6 months of the year free from intercounty fixtures of note, leaving TV channels free to show Rugby and Soccer from August to February without having GA fixtures to be fitted in.
2. Allows our kids (and ever increasing diverse population) forget about GAA for that same period.
3. Allows our club players time.to go to the states (or on holidays) for the summer without anyone giving out about deserting the club by having a life
4. Keeps championship club football for the autumn/winter
5. Burns out elite players between 18 and 21 by scheduling all those compensations in January to March, when the senior team is trialling new players. Allowing them to pick up injuries like mad, this insuring a high percentage miss most of their intercounty U20 and sigerson season due to soft tissue injuries and ensures they have a good opportunity to need hip/groin surgery before the age of 24

Let's face it, an intercounty season where
1. Winning the 2nd most important competition results in having 3 games in 3 weeks and no break between league final and first round of the championship
2. Losing first championship match results in 5-6 weeks off before losing the 2nd
3. Not topping your group leave you with 3 matches in 3 weeks to qualify for an all ireland semi

It just isn't functioning properly. Add in the some counties don't start club championship until September, and it's just as bad as the old system.

The Mayo team this year had a match every week from January to March
All of May off, a match every week in June, all of July and August off, a match every week in September and will be back training again in December. It's just crazy

There is always a simple solution staring everyone in the face but it never gets any airtime

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1099 - 28/07/2023 03:53:14    2497382

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "The CPA campaign to "fix the fixtures" has managed to do the following:
1. Leave 6 months of the year free from intercounty fixtures of note, leaving TV channels free to show Rugby and Soccer from August to February without having GA fixtures to be fitted in.
2. Allows our kids (and ever increasing diverse population) forget about GAA for that same period.
3. Allows our club players time.to go to the states (or on holidays) for the summer without anyone giving out about deserting the club by having a life
4. Keeps championship club football for the autumn/winter
5. Burns out elite players between 18 and 21 by scheduling all those compensations in January to March, when the senior team is trialling new players. Allowing them to pick up injuries like mad, this insuring a high percentage miss most of their intercounty U20 and sigerson season due to soft tissue injuries and ensures they have a good opportunity to need hip/groin surgery before the age of 24

Let's face it, an intercounty season where
1. Winning the 2nd most important competition results in having 3 games in 3 weeks and no break between league final and first round of the championship
2. Losing first championship match results in 5-6 weeks off before losing the 2nd
3. Not topping your group leave you with 3 matches in 3 weeks to qualify for an all ireland semi

It just isn't functioning properly. Add in the some counties don't start club championship until September, and it's just as bad as the old system.

The Mayo team this year had a match every week from January to March
All of May off, a match every week in June, all of July and August off, a match every week in September and will be back training again in December. It's just crazy

There is always a simple solution staring everyone in the face but it never gets any airtime"
What's the simple solution?

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4193 - 28/07/2023 10:20:42    2497394

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Replying To Whammo86:  "What's the simple solution?"
Some club championships aren't starting until September. The intercounty window could be end of March to September. County championships from October to December. Provincial club and All-Ireland club championships from January to mid March.
While the Provincial club and All-Ireland club championships play out from January to mid March, intercounty preseason provincial leagues can play out as well. Munster for example guaranteeing 5 intercounty provincial league games.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7806 - 28/07/2023 12:50:07    2497431

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Some club championships aren't starting until September. The intercounty window could be end of March to September. County championships from October to December. Provincial club and All-Ireland club championships from January to mid March.
While the Provincial club and All-Ireland club championships play out from January to mid March, intercounty preseason provincial leagues can play out as well. Munster for example guaranteeing 5 intercounty provincial league games."
That means there's no real off season and that isn't a good thing
Club championships ot starting until September is ridiculous in every county
All club players should be playing games in heir primary competition of he year in the summer months especially as they'll have started pre season so many months beforehand

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 28/07/2023 13:31:29    2497444

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Some club championships aren't starting until September. The intercounty window could be end of March to September. County championships from October to December. Provincial club and All-Ireland club championships from January to mid March.
While the Provincial club and All-Ireland club championships play out from January to mid March, intercounty preseason provincial leagues can play out as well. Munster for example guaranteeing 5 intercounty provincial league games."
I don't think that's the answer. I don't think there is an answer as part of the split season.

There just shouldn't be a split season.

I also don't think it's fair on the club game that county managers get access to players for up to 19 fixtures a season.

You've those 19, 12 club championship between 2 codes for dual counties and up to 11 Provincial and All Ireland club fixtures across 2 codes. 42 weeks of the year is too much in 52 weeks with rest time and an off season needing to be provided.

Football needs to get its county game down to less fixtures.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4193 - 28/07/2023 14:05:43    2497457

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I don't think that's the answer. I don't think there is an answer as part of the split season.

There just shouldn't be a split season.

I also don't think it's fair on the club game that county managers get access to players for up to 19 fixtures a season.

You've those 19, 12 club championship between 2 codes for dual counties and up to 11 Provincial and All Ireland club fixtures across 2 codes. 42 weeks of the year is too much in 52 weeks with rest time and an off season needing to be provided.

Football needs to get its county game down to less fixtures."
The simple answer is to play club and county together over 9/10 months with all players available to their clubs…. This thing of county managers running county boards and having complete access to maybe 30 club players is ridiculous… County managers should be delighted when club players are available to them….not the other way around..!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1885 - 28/07/2023 14:34:36    2497463

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Replying To KillingFields:  "That means there's no real off season and that isn't a good thing
Club championships ot starting until September is ridiculous in every county
All club players should be playing games in heir primary competition of he year in the summer months especially as they'll have started pre season so many months beforehand"
Where is the off season at the moment? Club finals in January and league at the end of January?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7806 - 28/07/2023 14:54:03    2497472

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Where is the off season at the moment? Club finals in January and league at the end of January?"
There isn't one so any proposed change needs to include one.
To expect players not to have any form of off season is completely wrong and unfair

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 28/07/2023 15:03:12    2497475

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There is an off season for most
Also, club players at business end opt out of county teams
anyway. They tend to rejoin county in March

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1196 - 28/07/2023 15:16:51    2497479

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Replying To KillingFields:  "There isn't one so any proposed change needs to include one.
To expect players not to have any form of off season is completely wrong and unfair"
If All-Ireland club finals were played in December, the end of December would be the off season. There's a natural two weeks off there anyway. Completing All-Ireland club finals in December however seems to be no longer on the agenda.
If All-Ireland clubs finals are January and the league starts at the end of January. All-Ireland club finals in March and league at the end of March is the same, only allowing for traditional September All-Ireland finals.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7806 - 28/07/2023 15:20:26    2497480

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