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5) With only 3 x 3rds advancing, you have a 13-team KO field (10 to Rd 1, 3 byes). 4) Why is the 'Wild Card Round' not the 'Prelim QF Rd' by another name? 3) So, only 3 of 5 group winners to QFs, with 5 Wild Card ties? 6) Too harsh to dump based on one 10-pts defeat, especially with a limited number of good replacements from only 12 in lower-tier. Just have 2 of 20 worst record teams relegated, with 2 up. omahant (USA) - Posts: 3114 - 25/06/2023 15:12:11 2489126 Link 0 |
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With 4 groups of 4, advance 3 'wild cards' in lieu of 4 x 3rds (keeps everyone in the chase, jeopardy with no guarantee for 3rd place - 5 byes, 5 out & 3 Prelim QF ties). Or, with the 'Jim McG KO 16', I'd tweak Rd 1 - Pot 1v1 (open draw, Prov non repeat), 4 winners to QFs, 4 losers to Prelim QFs. Pot 2 v 2 (open draw, Prov non repeat), 4 winners to Prelim QFs, 4 losers are out. Prelim Rd, QFs & SFs - highest seed v lowest, 2nd high v 2nd low etc., re-seeding in each round. In the initial poster's ties, I'd switch Match 4 & 5. omahant (USA) - Posts: 3114 - 26/06/2023 19:41:47 2489780 Link 0 |
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Stupid.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6174 - 27/06/2023 01:51:22 2489829 Link 0 |
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The commentary is ridiculous. Some people are never happy unless they are complaining.,
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6174 - 27/06/2023 01:52:51 2489830 Link 3 |
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Three small tweaks I'd like to see - 1) '3 wild cards' (best records from across all 4 groups) in lieu of 4 automatic 3rd-placed teams. So, 5 to QFs, 5 out and 3 Prelim QF Rd ties. 2) KO seeding based on a combined 16-team table (high v low seed, with re-seeding each round, subject to non repeat ties). omahant (USA) - Posts: 3114 - 01/07/2023 14:23:32 2491027 Link 0 |
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This year's format will be hard to shake off. Just a few tweaks here and there. There needs to be a rest weekend after league finals. The provincial championship draws should be seeded on the league. Provincial runners-up should be seeded on league placing.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8578 - 01/07/2023 14:41:00 2491034 Link 0 |
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What small changes would you like to see?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3114 - 02/07/2023 03:12:46 2491217 Link 0 |
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Sorry, you have already provided them.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3114 - 02/07/2023 03:14:12 2491218 Link 0 |
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Mayo lost to Cork, dropped into the preliminary quarter-final and beat Galway and the lost to Dublin. Mayo can only blame themselves. Tyrone and Cork also missed out on winning their groups and only had a week to prepare for the quarter-finals. That was the jeopardy of 2nd and 3rd. Giving preliminary quarter-final winners an extra week will take away from the advantage of winning the group. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8578 - 06/07/2023 10:55:36 2492602 Link 0 |
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I agree. But having tired teams in the AI QFs takes from the quality of those pairings. I think having '3 wild cards' in lieu of '4 third teams' strikes a better 'jeopardy while keeping most teams involved' balance for the third group ties. Five 'best record teams' (potentially omitting a group winner) could get the byes in lieu of '4 group winners' as well.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3114 - 07/07/2023 16:57:02 2492989 Link 0 |
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It is a lot of explaining for the majority of supporters. Group winners advancing to the quarters and 2nd v 3rd playing off puts some people's heads in a spin!
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8578 - 08/07/2023 10:26:11 2493078 Link 0 |
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That's a sad commentary on the state of the world - the part I wouldn't want to join.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3114 - 09/07/2023 15:47:17 2493337 Link 0 |
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I don't know, there's a beauty to simplicity. A lot of thought can go into making something seem simple but effective in achieving its goal. This is principle that applies across a wide range of disciplines and has been part of the thinking of some great minds throughout human history. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4416 - 10/07/2023 11:18:54 2493525 Link 1 |
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What's all this wild card nonsense? Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2117 - 10/07/2023 12:26:36 2493545 Link 0 |
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All else being equal, I think simple is best - but to my mind, the goal should be the 'best design' that provides a fair competition. This often includes bells and whistles. There are many examples that reflect a lack of simplicity - e.g. US NFL, Aussie AFL, 2024/25 UEFA Champions League (moving from simplicity) and the Rugby EPCR group stage (structure in recent years is probably the worst in world sport - new 4 groups of 6 is an improvement). With the AI SFC group stage, I offered a few tweaks above to the '4 groups of 4' - with reference to 'best records' regardless of group, top 5 to QFs, next 6 to Prelim QF Rd & bottom 5 eliminated - teams seeded 1 to 11, high v low seed etc with re-seeding in each round, possibly subject to non-repeat pairings. While nobody is required to support or like it - I repeat - not being able to understand it would be a 'sad commentary on the state of the world'. omahant (USA) - Posts: 3114 - 10/07/2023 13:18:41 2493560 Link 0 |
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You love adding complications unnecessarily is the problem people have with your ideas. People don't want complication they want a very easy format that can be explained very easily which isn't the case woh most of your ideas KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3735 - 10/07/2023 15:10:25 2493600 Link 0 |
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3 weeks isn't long but there are other factors to consider. Round 3 was on the weekend after the hurling finals. If Round 3 is moved a week earlier, it will be on the same weekend as the hurling provincial finals.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8578 - 10/07/2023 16:08:35 2493626 Link 0 |
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There has to be a balance between giving the group winners some advantage and allowing the teams that come through the Preliminary Quarter Final (PRM) a realistic chance. This year, there was 1 week between the final group games and the PRM with the QF played 1 week later - that meant teams like Mayo and Tyrone played 3 weeks in a row. If they had 1 week between the final group game and the PQF it would at mean that the team that got through the PRM were playing 2 weeks in a row instead of 3 weeks in a row. It still preserves an advantage to the Group winners but maybe giving some chance to the PQF winners. They could also look at the venue - i.e home QFs to the Group winners which I would personally be more in favour of but given that would mean taking the QFs out of CP its not likely. I have to say I hate double headers in CP, The atmosphere is almost always terrible! Cbar (Mayo) - Posts: 336 - 10/07/2023 17:42:27 2493648 Link 0 |
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Rugby EPCR have come up with a better format. 6 teams play the 4 teams that are not in their regular league. The previous format wasn't good. UEFA have made format mistakes before. For a few years they had 8 groups of 4 and then 4 groups of 4. The second group stage was a turn off. Their current plan is for one group of 36, playing 8 games or something like that. They might have to break it down into smaller groups. Interestingly Cavan and Leitrim have something like 10 teams in one group. All teams play 4 games. That's more manageable and easy enough to follow. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8578 - 12/07/2023 18:06:00 2494013 Link 0 |
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That would need provincial councils to stop doing draws 6 months in advance
valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1901 - 14/07/2023 10:36:09 2494281 Link 0 |