National Forum

Jim Mcguinness-Right As Usual On Championship

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Those games are not meaningless before and when they are being played. I know because I was at them. If Cavan make it to the Sam Maguire and you can bring yourself to go out and support them you will see what the lower ranked teams and their supporters take from believing they have a chance of qualifying from the group. Don't knock it until you've actually tried it."
A provincial title would be worth 100 times more to those 4 counties than playing 3 ( at least ) extra games to get knocked out and nothing to show for it only a huge bill for the county board…. Hopefully one or more of the 3 remaining teams can cause an upset but I sincerely doubt it….

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3569 - 15/06/2023 13:27:16    2486656

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "A provincial title would be worth 100 times more to those 4 counties than playing 3 ( at least ) extra games to get knocked out and nothing to show for it only a huge bill for the county board…. Hopefully one or more of the 3 remaining teams can cause an upset but I sincerely doubt it…."
A provincial title isn't something that materialises out of thin air. Those teams will only up their level by playing more championship matches on a consistent basis.

How many championship games would Kerry and Mayo have played over the last 20 years compared to Louth. The marginal gains that the Kerry's and Mayo's have accumulated from being successful aren't going to be closed overnight but we Hugo start somewhere.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4416 - 15/06/2023 17:15:45    2486726

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To be honest i think we are completely missing the point here. We have had a fair few stabs at the structure already and every week we hear some hair brained combo of games that will sort the issue. It ain't gonna happen. This debate on structure is only masking the issue relating to the entertainment value the games are providing.

If games were more entertaining i'd guarantee we'd have no issue with the structure of the competitions. Its the rules that need addressing and not the structures.

We had the league earlier in the year and now we have the league effectively being run again and these games are at best middling league games. Why would you put it all on the line when the is a game next week anyhow.

Championship for me is having to put it on the line in every game. If you win them all you are a champion

ponger (Cavan) - Posts: 547 - 15/06/2023 22:33:19    2486755

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The new Championship is far from perfect but the ultimate goal of a championship is for the best team to win the All Ireland, that will still happen. There are negatives with so many games but not as many as people think. If you are an aspiring footballer and you get your chance to play one of the big boys that you never got the chance before, do you think the matches matter to them? If you are on a panel training all year round and get a chance to play in the championship I'm sure it matters to you. The question is what do the players think as they are the most import part of the program, not windbags of Journalists that moan about everything. The proper thing to do is after three years experiment canvas the players and see what they think, give it a chance and if it doesn't work try something else. The previous format didn't work as you had only Connacht and ulster that were competitive.

imformed (Roscommon) - Posts: 189 - 16/06/2023 09:04:55    2486772

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The seeding for the All-Ireland groups is all wrong. Louth, Clare and Sligo were seeded above Mayo, Roscommon, Tyrone and Monaghan.
Clare should be seed 4. If Clare were Seed 4, Donegal v Clare would be for third place. Derry v Monaghan would be for the group win.
Kerry v Mayo should be Round 3 and possibly for the group win. Cork v Louth should be Round 3 for third place."
Are you still going on about this.

Mayo had six weeks off before that game, Kerry had won a Munster title and had a home game.

Ye lost fair and square. Wishing ye had Mayo later after ye got another couple of games under yer belts won't change that.

Time to let it go

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1252 - 16/06/2023 09:44:39    2486777

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Replying To ponger:  "To be honest i think we are completely missing the point here. We have had a fair few stabs at the structure already and every week we hear some hair brained combo of games that will sort the issue. It ain't gonna happen. This debate on structure is only masking the issue relating to the entertainment value the games are providing.

If games were more entertaining i'd guarantee we'd have no issue with the structure of the competitions. Its the rules that need addressing and not the structures.

We had the league earlier in the year and now we have the league effectively being run again and these games are at best middling league games. Why would you put it all on the line when the is a game next week anyhow.

Championship for me is having to put it on the line in every game. If you win them all you are a champion"
Thats a completely backward way of thinking
players dont want it.
you are looking for straight knock out. nobody wants that
it isnt effectively a league being run again.
the rules do need addressing. big time. but the structures are completely flawed as well.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3735 - 16/06/2023 09:57:03    2486779

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Thats a completely backward way of thinking
players dont want it.
you are looking for straight knock out. nobody wants that
it isnt effectively a league being run again.
the rules do need addressing. big time. but the structures are completely flawed as well."
Most players and managements seem to be delighted to have a series of regular games in Summertime.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2117 - 16/06/2023 10:40:25    2486789

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The solution to the GAA's problem of 3 from 4 could be 6 from 8 instead! In 2 groups of 8, teams can play one team from 4 seeded brackets. After 4 rounds, 2 home and 2 away, the top 2 can advance to the quarter-finals. The middle 4 can compete in the playoff round. There can be less complaints about 6 advancing from 8 because teams are only playing 4 rounds.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8578 - 16/06/2023 11:23:29    2486807

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The solution to the GAA's problem of 3 from 4 could be 6 from 8 instead! In 2 groups of 8, teams can play one team from 4 seeded brackets. After 4 rounds, 2 home and 2 away, the top 2 can advance to the quarter-finals. The middle 4 can compete in the playoff round. There can be less complaints about 6 advancing from 8 because teams are only playing 4 rounds."
Leitrim and Cavan have something similar to that in their Club Championships.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2117 - 16/06/2023 12:35:01    2486839

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "A provincial title would be worth 100 times more to those 4 counties than playing 3 ( at least ) extra games to get knocked out and nothing to show for it only a huge bill for the county board…. Hopefully one or more of the 3 remaining teams can cause an upset but I sincerely doubt it…."
Louth brought 25,000 people to Croke Park for the Leinster Final. Is that good enough for you?

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6174 - 16/06/2023 13:10:32    2486861

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Louth brought 25,000 people to Croke Park for the Leinster Final. Is that good enough for you?"
You just proved my point…. It was a Leinster Championship Final not a micky mouse group game that teams sleep walk through… Thanks for clearing that up.. I thought I was right but you just confirmed it….!!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3569 - 16/06/2023 13:19:25    2486868

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Leitrim and Cavan have something similar to that in their Club Championships."
Sensible championship formats by Cavan and Leitrim. They are setting the example for the rest of the country!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8578 - 16/06/2023 14:04:21    2486889

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "You just proved my point…. It was a Leinster Championship Final not a micky mouse group game that teams sleep walk through… Thanks for clearing that up.. I thought I was right but you just confirmed it….!!!"
We've got both, so what's the issue?

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4416 - 16/06/2023 14:18:12    2486905

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "You just proved my point…. It was a Leinster Championship Final not a micky mouse group game that teams sleep walk through… Thanks for clearing that up.. I thought I was right but you just confirmed it….!!!"
Did Louth get to play Cavan?

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2117 - 16/06/2023 18:09:15    2486977

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I once posted a championship structure (a few years ago when there was a thread every other week on the topic)

I am still convinced it is the best option

uS sports style conference system

Provincial conferences where every team plays each other once per year.

Overall system where you play the other counties every odd year

You end up with A guarantee Mayo v Galway every year and a Mayo away to Kerry every 4 years.

Top 8 go into play offs

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1252 - 16/06/2023 22:15:57    2487003

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I can't believe people are suggesting to go back to old style knockout football. Players training all year to just get one championship game if they are knocked out, surely that is a backward step. The groups remained interesting right to the end, surely we can't ask for more than that. I think the 2nd/3rd placed games this weekend are a great idea.

There isn't much wrong with the current system except that the provincials don't lend themselves well to it. Not sure how that problem is solved. The other big problem for me is that there is far too much possession based football, no system can solve that. Ban keepers from coming out the pitch might help, teams wouldn't be able to retain possession as easily.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1904 - 19/06/2023 16:36:39    2487482

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So the 4 teams everyone knew would be knocked out before all these group games were played were actually knocked out….. what a complete waste of time and money ……! Should be only 2/4 going through instead of 3/4…. I wouldn't worry about dead rubber games as most of the games were very poorly attended in any case… More exciting if it was 2 out of 4 instead of 3/4…..!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3569 - 19/06/2023 17:04:02    2487503

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "So the 4 teams everyone knew would be knocked out before all these group games were played were actually knocked out….. what a complete waste of time and money ……! Should be only 2/4 going through instead of 3/4…. I wouldn't worry about dead rubber games as most of the games were very poorly attended in any case… More exciting if it was 2 out of 4 instead of 3/4…..!!"
How are things in the Tailteann?
Ooh err...

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2117 - 19/06/2023 17:22:43    2487524

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "So the 4 teams everyone knew would be knocked out before all these group games were played were actually knocked out….. what a complete waste of time and money ……! Should be only 2/4 going through instead of 3/4…. I wouldn't worry about dead rubber games as most of the games were very poorly attended in any case… More exciting if it was 2 out of 4 instead of 3/4…..!!"
Is that not a bit stingy? Only 2 teams going through instead of 3 or is it just the Ciavaan way! ;-)

Onion_Sack (Dublin) - Posts: 286 - 19/06/2023 18:45:23    2487577

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I think in general, it's been a success and just needs a little tweaking.

Perhaps only provincial champions go through as that would remove the weaker sides that get softer route.

However only issues I think they need to solve is give more rewards to champion of div1 e.g. Two home games so teams fight for the league title.

The rewards of straight through to quarters and home advantage are good carrots for group stage. Giving home advantage in quarter finals too to group winners would really make it even better.

Was surprised how poor RTE were flagging it to viewers. In the last couple of seconds Westmeath had a kick to eliminate Tyrone and Galway needed to draw to make quarter finals or face the trickier route versus a big gun from pot 3.

There was jeopardy, you just wouldn't know it listening to commentary. GAAGo lads didn't know permutations at end of Mayo v Cork either

Need to get better at promotion of it.

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 289 - 19/06/2023 19:00:45    2487583

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