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All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship 2023

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Replying To Viking66: "Think the epic Leinster semi final in 2021 took alot out of Kilkenny!!!! But seriously I think Kilkenny are just playing better the last couple of years. 2020 and 2021 were just very odd years with covid etc. Since 2021 Walter, Lawlor, Kenny and Keoghan are much improved, Butler, Blanchfield, Phelan, Walsh etc have come on the scene. That's half a team. If Munster being a bearpit in the RoundRobin years, between evenly matched teams knocking 7 bells out of eachother, was really the reason Kilkenny lost to Waterford in an AISF during covid then why have Waterford won so few games in those Round Robin years? By law of averages in 16 games they should've won more than 2 if it was as even as you suggest?" Well they conceded thirty scores in an All Final and got seventeen, against a defence with two of their best players off. Have they really improved that much. Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 10/08/2023 19:53:01 2499988 Link
Replying To Fitzy01: "There are so many elements to this; Limerick come back each season at a certain level and build and grow as the move through the season and peak towards the end, its high risk and they are coming up against teams in Munster who are already peaked and primed to take them down, they were nearly caught out this year but still timed things perfectly. Most teams have saved their best performance for Limerick over the past few years. The likes of Clare are different they came in peaked and primed at the start but could not maintain their form and trended downwards, the same thing happened them last year. To win an all Ireland I don't think you can be at your peak in the beginning and maintain it the whole way through. The Cian Lynch factor is massive, if we had a fully fit Cian Lynch for the Munster round robin i think things may not have been so tight, He is one of the greatest players to ever swing a Hurley and the difference he makes when fully fit was there for all to see in the AI semi and final where he was the best player on the field in both games imo. We love the Munster championship, and i personally hope things never change, but the fact is that you have to fight tooth and nail to get out of it. Munster teams cannot really plan beyond the Round Robin whereas Galway and Kilkenny can already plan to be peaked and primed for the AI series. The intensity and ferocity Limerick faced in Munster over the entire match was far greater than they faced in the semis and final. If that's down to the fact that Limerick were starting slow and building at that stage and missing a fit Cian Lynch or down to the fact the the Leinster teams didn't bring as much intensity over a 70 min period is up for debate." Last year this was true with Clare, not this year. Clares loss to KK had nothing to do with downward trending or peaking or any nonsense like that. Clare played there best hurling all year in the 1st 20 minutes after half time. KK won because they were the better team over 70+ minutes , it's that simple. Dec82andahalf (Clare) - Posts: 34 - 10/08/2023 20:32:38 2499993 Link
Replying To daveboy: "Is there any word in clare on potential absentees from the squad for 2024? Shane o donnell and Duggan for work ? Conlon retiring? Ryan Taylor ACL?" Duggan will be playing. Unfortunately Taylor out long term. Can't see the other 2 stepping away especially O Donnell. Dec82andahalf (Clare) - Posts: 34 - 10/08/2023 20:38:01 2499994 Link
Replying To BarneyGrant: "Clare are clearly a good bit ahead of Dublin. How do make out that Galway are? Did i miss something???" Perhaps you did? Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3423 - 10/08/2023 20:44:38 2499995 Link
Replying To endgame: "Are Clare people happy for Brian Lohan to continue as Manager. From a neutral point of view,Clare are losing games they should be capable of winning ( two semi finals against an ordinary Kilkenny team) and surely the blame has to be pointed in the direction of management." The players have to take there share of the blame as well. Plenty of silly and needless mistakes. I'm happy for Lohan to stay on. He's turned Clare into a solid team and he's giving young lads there chance. Hogan and Rodgers were brilliant this year. He does need someone beside him who can see the game unfold and react quicker. Rumours are, is that he's looking to freshen up his backroom team. Dec82andahalf (Clare) - Posts: 34 - 10/08/2023 20:50:42 2499997 Link
Replying To Fitzy01: "There are so many elements to this; Limerick come back each season at a certain level and build and grow as the move through the season and peak towards the end, its high risk and they are coming up against teams in Munster who are already peaked and primed to take them down, they were nearly caught out this year but still timed things perfectly. Most teams have saved their best performance for Limerick over the past few years. The likes of Clare are different they came in peaked and primed at the start but could not maintain their form and trended downwards, the same thing happened them last year. To win an all Ireland I don't think you can be at your peak in the beginning and maintain it the whole way through. The Cian Lynch factor is massive, if we had a fully fit Cian Lynch for the Munster round robin i think things may not have been so tight, He is one of the greatest players to ever swing a Hurley and the difference he makes when fully fit was there for all to see in the AI semi and final where he was the best player on the field in both games imo. We love the Munster championship, and i personally hope things never change, but the fact is that you have to fight tooth and nail to get out of it. Munster teams cannot really plan beyond the Round Robin whereas Galway and Kilkenny can already plan to be peaked and primed for the AI series. The intensity and ferocity Limerick faced in Munster over the entire match was far greater than they faced in the semis and final. If that's down to the fact that Limerick were starting slow and building at that stage and missing a fit Cian Lynch or down to the fact the the Leinster teams didn't bring as much intensity over a 70 min period is up for debate." Been awhile since anyone questioned the Cats 'intensity'. Lyng will be worried about that. Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3423 - 10/08/2023 20:51:03 2499998 Link
Replying To BarneyGrant: "Clare are clearly a good bit ahead of Dublin. How do make out that Galway are? Did i miss something???" Tipp beat Clare. Clare beat Dublin. Galway beat Tipp. Did you miss that much? baire (Galway) - Posts: 1806 - 10/08/2023 22:39:48 2500001 Link
Replying To baire: "Tipp beat Clare. Clare beat Dublin. Galway beat Tipp. Did you miss that much?" Dublin drew with Galway. That's the only basis for a comparison really. Limerick beat Clare by a point, Clare hammered Dublin and Limerick hammered Galway so little distinction there either. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2565 - 11/08/2023 10:11:13 2500015 Link
Replying To Oldtourman: "Well they conceded thirty scores in an All Final and got seventeen, against a defence with two of their best players off. Have they really improved that much." Not as much as Limerick did obviously! Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11879 - 11/08/2023 10:18:40 2500016 Link
Replying To Pope_Benedict: "Been awhile since anyone questioned the Cats 'intensity'. Lyng will be worried about that." Its not questioned at all, those are your words, not mine. I am only commenting on the all Ireland match, they were well able to sustain it for about 50 mins in my opinion and they gave us one hell of a match in the first half but they faded as the second half went on. Do you think they sustained they same level of intensity over the 70 mins? I'd be genuinely interested to hear your thoughts if mine are so off the mark, If you have a point to make, then make it and put your opinion out there. Fitzy01 (Limerick) - Posts: 387 - 11/08/2023 10:23:01 2500017 Link
Replying To BarneyGrant: "Dublin drew with Galway. That's the only basis for a comparison really. Limerick beat Clare by a point, Clare hammered Dublin and Limerick hammered Galway so little distinction there either." Using one game, the Dublin v Galway game in the RR is taking a very narrow view. Galway were brutal in the first half, gifted Dublin 2 goals yet Dublin failed to beat them, were actually lucky to get the draw. At the knock-out stage, Galway's performance against Tipp in the AIQF was excellent whilst Dublin's performance against Clare was very poor. Limerick beat Clare by a point yet KK, who won by a point against Galway, beat Clare by 3 points! Limerick beat KK by 9 in the final, same margin against Galway in the semi-final. Where's the pattern? The only pattern I see in the last two years is Limerick, KK, Clare and Galway in the AISF and Limerick the dominant force since 2018. Have a look at the Dublin v Galway record in reaching AISFs and AIFs in the last 5 years. This Dublin team hasn't gone past an AIQF, Galway have contested an AIF and 2 AISFs. Those are the facts and your obsession with Galway won't change them. baire (Galway) - Posts: 1806 - 11/08/2023 11:17:45 2500028 Link
Wexford beat kilkenny. Kilkenny beat everyone except limerick. Strong case can be made to rank wexford 3rd Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2673 - 11/08/2023 14:14:08 2500075 Link
Replying To Fitzy01: "Its not questioned at all, those are your words, not mine. I am only commenting on the all Ireland match, they were well able to sustain it for about 50 mins in my opinion and they gave us one hell of a match in the first half but they faded as the second half went on. Do you think they sustained they same level of intensity over the 70 mins? I'd be genuinely interested to hear your thoughts if mine are so off the mark, If you have a point to make, then make it and put your opinion out there." You said the intensity that Leinster teams bring is up for debate in your very last sentence. Now you're saying it's not questioned at all. Make up your mind. In terms of sustaining intensity, Limerick's strength and conditioning compared to their rival's capacity for intensity and full game workrate, seems akin to the difference between the fitness level of the current Irish rugby team, compared to Willie Duggan and Moss Keane and the boys that played 40 years ago. One crowd can beat the All Blacks, the others couldn't. Galway and KK weren't out of their depth skillwise v Limerick in this year's championship, but they both ran out of puff at a remarkably similar game juncture, trying to match Limerick's modern day benchmark level of s&c. Teams that can handle Limerick's power, fitness and physicality for the game duration, without getting punch drunk and tired, will have a chance to compete for victory. Kilkenny and Galway were not those teams this season. Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3423 - 11/08/2023 16:30:50 2500103 Link
Replying To Doylerwex: "Wexford beat kilkenny. Kilkenny beat everyone except limerick. Strong case can be made to rank wexford 3rd" Strong is probably too strong a word: D Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11879 - 11/08/2023 16:35:25 2500106 Link
Ye can talk all the we beat them, they beat them, them beat us, we should be ranked above them etc. The season is over and all that matters is where the Liam McCarthy is residing and the players will pick up their celtic crosses at a function later in the year. Armchairreporter (Galway) - Posts: 76 - 11/08/2023 18:15:55 2500115 Link
Replying To Doylerwex: "Wexford beat kilkenny. Kilkenny beat everyone except limerick. Strong case can be made to rank wexford 3rd" Why rank them below KK, or is it Westmeath you have at 2? Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3423 - 11/08/2023 20:39:54 2500120 Link
Replying To Pope_Benedict: "Why rank them below KK, or is it Westmeath you have at 2?" No we would be behind Clare by any yardstick we haven't beaten them in ages despite getting close the last day, and Galway likewise, although in our last 4 championship meetings we have drawn twice. Haven't beaten Westmeath in Championship in a lot of years, or Dublin since 2018, but there has been a draw in the last 4 championship meetings, and that win in 2018. Hard to know how we would get on against Tipp or Waterford, both seem to have gone back alot since we last lost to them, although if last year doesn't turn out to be an anomaly then so have we. Cork after Kilkenny would be our biggest rivals since the 50s as in our players raising their game against them, but we haven't played them in championship in 8 seasons now, although we won that last meeting. And we haven't played Limerick in a Championship game since 10 years ago. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11879 - 12/08/2023 09:12:17 2500145 Link
Replying To Pope_Benedict: "You said the intensity that Leinster teams bring is up for debate in your very last sentence. Now you're saying it's not questioned at all. Make up your mind. In terms of sustaining intensity, Limerick's strength and conditioning compared to their rival's capacity for intensity and full game workrate, seems akin to the difference between the fitness level of the current Irish rugby team, compared to Willie Duggan and Moss Keane and the boys that played 40 years ago. One crowd can beat the All Blacks, the others couldn't. Galway and KK weren't out of their depth skillwise v Limerick in this year's championship, but they both ran out of puff at a remarkably similar game juncture, trying to match Limerick's modern day benchmark level of s&c. Teams that can handle Limerick's power, fitness and physicality for the game duration, without getting punch drunk and tired, will have a chance to compete for victory. Kilkenny and Galway were not those teams this season." Then I think we are both in agreement, you saying KK and Galway ran out of puff is equal to and greater than my statement that their intensity dropped. When we played Cork or Clare for example this did not happen they went flat out for the 70 mins but Clare probably paid a high price for it. My point up for debate then was is this because Limerick improved and were better in Croke Park with a fully fit Cian Lynch or were the Munster teams able to go flat out against us for the 70 mins because their s and c is also superior. To answer my own question I think it's primarily the former and Limerick focus on unleashing everything on their last two games and having their team right for those final two games. Fitzy01 (Limerick) - Posts: 387 - 12/08/2023 09:43:23 2500151 Link
My point was not anti Galway (although I do admire the amnesia regarding the ten year stats on our mutual rivalry!). More that ranking teams outside of Limerick, and at a push the stripey men and Clare, is bald men arguing over the comb territory. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2565 - 12/08/2023 10:05:15 2500154 Link
Replying To BarneyGrant: "My point was not anti Galway (although I do admire the amnesia regarding the ten year stats on our mutual rivalry!). More that ranking teams outside of Limerick, and at a push the stripey men and Clare, is bald men arguing over the comb territory." : ) Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11879 - 12/08/2023 10:13:19 2500155 Link