National Forum

Provincial Titles Are No Longer Relevant

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Such as?"
Play the league. Ideally 4 divisions mixed with 2 from each current division. No finals. Put provincial schedule within league calendar with no bearing or seeding for All Ireland. Then 8 round robin groups of 4 teams from each division. Can seed them based on league standings per group. Top 2 in All Ireland Senior Championship. Bottom 2 in Tailteann. Knockout championship after that. More than extremely likely to ever happen I know but sure I don't like the 2023 system.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7971 - 24/04/2023 08:15:19    2473041

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The only interesting aspect of groups is small possibility of a "group of death." Maybe Dublin, Derry (if they lost Ulster final), Mayo plus another?

Although even that would only mean death for the fourth team!

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3515 - 24/04/2023 09:39:51    2473065

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Play the league. Ideally 4 divisions mixed with 2 from each current division. No finals. Put provincial schedule within league calendar with no bearing or seeding for All Ireland. Then 8 round robin groups of 4 teams from each division. Can seed them based on league standings per group. Top 2 in All Ireland Senior Championship. Bottom 2 in Tailteann. Knockout championship after that. More than extremely likely to ever happen I know but sure I don't like the 2023 system."
I don't see how this helps weaker teams at all.

Teams don't improve by playing teams way above their level.

Playing Tailteann is going to be important for Antrim.

They will actually be up against teams better than them and around their level.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4519 - 24/04/2023 10:12:43    2473096

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "The only interesting aspect of groups is small possibility of a "group of death." Maybe Dublin, Derry (if they lost Ulster final), Mayo plus another?

Although even that would only mean death for the fourth team!"
Every team will have a home game in the first two rounds. If every team wins their home game, R3 will be interesting. The top teams will want to win their first two games. It should ensure a home playoff at least.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8779 - 24/04/2023 10:21:07    2473103

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I don't see how this helps weaker teams at all.

Teams don't improve by playing teams way above their level.

Playing Tailteann is going to be important for Antrim.

They will actually be up against teams better than them and around their level."
They can't improve by playing teams of a similarly poor standard. They can only improve by pitting themselves against a higher standard, take the inevitable hammering from top standard, close the gap to the standard just above them. Learn from both and improve. But they need to work year on year to consistently improve. A few so called weaker countries had good runs in the back door championship but stopped working to try improving their levels. Offaly and Down had good wins over, arguably, a higher standard of football. But only deemed to be higher standard if you base it on 2023 league standings. Championship is a different story.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7971 - 24/04/2023 10:45:40    2473118

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Play the league. Ideally 4 divisions mixed with 2 from each current division. No finals. Put provincial schedule within league calendar with no bearing or seeding for All Ireland. Then 8 round robin groups of 4 teams from each division. Can seed them based on league standings per group. Top 2 in All Ireland Senior Championship. Bottom 2 in Tailteann. Knockout championship after that. More than extremely likely to ever happen I know but sure I don't like the 2023 system."
You lost me at Play. There's very few complaining about the current format so far in 2023.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4130 - 24/04/2023 11:10:12    2473142

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Well when I was leaving Carlow yesterday I was not really upset we had lost (Kildare deserved their win), as we don't have to play a semi final next week against the Dubs.

This would have set us back before the TC.

Says it all really.

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2929 - 24/04/2023 11:13:02    2473146

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Replying To sponger:  "Well when I was leaving Carlow yesterday I was not really upset we had lost (Kildare deserved their win), as we don't have to play a semi final next week against the Dubs.

This would have set us back before the TC.

Says it all really."
Should Dublin receive a bye to the semi-finals? 8 teams can start in the preliminary round with the 4 winners joining 2 others in the quarter-finals.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8779 - 24/04/2023 11:49:46    2473173

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "They can't improve by playing teams of a similarly poor standard. They can only improve by pitting themselves against a higher standard, take the inevitable hammering from top standard, close the gap to the standard just above them. Learn from both and improve. But they need to work year on year to consistently improve. A few so called weaker countries had good runs in the back door championship but stopped working to try improving their levels. Offaly and Down had good wins over, arguably, a higher standard of football. But only deemed to be higher standard if you base it on 2023 league standings. Championship is a different story."
I take it the Leinster Counties have really improved by getting hammered by Dublin for the last 20 years or so.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2293 - 24/04/2023 11:57:08    2473177

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Can somebody please put the final nail in that God forsaken Leinster Championship and do us all a favour.

Best Wishes,
All of Laois

Laoisvillian (Laois) - Posts: 89 - 24/04/2023 12:00:31    2473183

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "They can't improve by playing teams of a similarly poor standard. They can only improve by pitting themselves against a higher standard, take the inevitable hammering from top standard, close the gap to the standard just above them. Learn from both and improve. But they need to work year on year to consistently improve. A few so called weaker countries had good runs in the back door championship but stopped working to try improving their levels. Offaly and Down had good wins over, arguably, a higher standard of football. But only deemed to be higher standard if you base it on 2023 league standings. Championship is a different story."
The top teams in Tailteann are a higher standard than Antrim. We'll likely be 2nd seeded and we'll play at least 1 team decently better than us in the group stage and if we perform we'll play better teams than us in the knockout rounds.

Really what would be best for Antrim would be if there were 3 divisions and everyone played everyone.

If we were in a Championship tier 3 we would want to be winning it. If we were in a Championship tier 2 we'd be playing games against at least 5 or 6 teams a good bit better than us at this point.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4519 - 24/04/2023 12:21:03    2473198

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "I take it the Leinster Counties have really improved by getting hammered by Dublin for the last 20 years or so."
Do ya reckon?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7971 - 24/04/2023 13:19:53    2473238

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1. Galway, Kerry, Dublin, Derry
2. Armagh^, Louth^, Clare, Sligo
3. Mayo, Roscommon, Tyrone, Monaghan
4. Donegal, Cork*, Kildare*, Westmeath
* Down and Offaly could yet knockout Kildare and Cork. ^ Armagh and Louth will be Seed 4 if they lose their semi-final.

If provincial runners-up were seeded on league placing the top 3 seeded brackets would more or less be the 12 teams or so capable of challenging for provincial titles.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8779 - 24/04/2023 15:26:46    2473318

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Replying To Laoisvillian:  "Can somebody please put the final nail in that God forsaken Leinster Championship and do us all a favour.

Best Wishes,
All of Laois"
Somebody please put this guy in charge. NOW

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2929 - 24/04/2023 16:38:51    2473369

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Replying To Laoisvillian:  "Can somebody please put the final nail in that God forsaken Leinster Championship and do us all a favour.

Best Wishes,
All of Laois"
Leinster counties can control that. Possibly 7 teams should enter a Leinster Conference. Winner promoted to the Leinster Championship.
4 teams in Leinster Championship round robin. Top 2 into final. Bottom team relegated to the Leinster Conference and given a bye to the Conference semi-finals in the following year.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8779 - 24/04/2023 17:44:50    2473409

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As a Galway man I love the Connacht championship and always did even when we were getting hammered ten years ago by Mayo. Games in neighbouring counties, you're eating and drinking in county towns that deserve the business, driving through small towns.
Obviously there's nothing good happening in Leinster. Munster is only a bit better because Clare are a good team, and Cork aren't.
To save the provincials, is there anything to be said for hurling type grades?
Even if every county bar Dublin was in this other Leinster competition, the carrot is a trophy plus they'd take on Dublin and get a hiding indeed, but would qualify for the Sam Maguire too.

jam83 (Galway) - Posts: 189 - 24/04/2023 20:06:58    2473464

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Replying To Laoisvillian:  "Can somebody please put the final nail in that God forsaken Leinster Championship and do us all a favour.

Best Wishes,
All of Laois"
why blame the leinster c ship for the disaster thsats laois [meath ] football? its not leinster councils fault ITS YOUR COUNTIES

Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2971 - 24/04/2023 20:43:06    2473477

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Longford to Connacht. Offaly and Laois to Munster. Leinster counties seem hesitant to move to a neighbouring province. The distribution of funds after the Leinster final in Croke Park might be a stumbling block.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8779 - 24/04/2023 21:03:36    2473482

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Replying To jam83:  "As a Galway man I love the Connacht championship and always did even when we were getting hammered ten years ago by Mayo. Games in neighbouring counties, you're eating and drinking in county towns that deserve the business, driving through small towns.
Obviously there's nothing good happening in Leinster. Munster is only a bit better because Clare are a good team, and Cork aren't.
To save the provincials, is there anything to be said for hurling type grades?
Even if every county bar Dublin was in this other Leinster competition, the carrot is a trophy plus they'd take on Dublin and get a hiding indeed, but would qualify for the Sam Maguire too."
Did you see the joy in the Offaly players and supporters yesterday,there is still so much love for provincial,even just winning a game or dare to dream, playing your local rivals just means alot more in my opinion.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 783 - 24/04/2023 21:24:49    2473488

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Leinster counties can control that. Possibly 7 teams should enter a Leinster Conference. Winner promoted to the Leinster Championship.
4 teams in Leinster Championship round robin. Top 2 into final. Bottom team relegated to the Leinster Conference and given a bye to the Conference semi-finals in the following year."
Or maybe, just maybe now.. we could force all teams to play they're fair share of games away from home in every round including final. And BANG the competition is no longer a farce, and may even become competitive again.

cuttothebone (Kildare) - Posts: 167 - 24/04/2023 21:28:36    2473490

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