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Provincial Titles Are No Longer Relevant

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Replying To Ban: "The Provincial Championship is nothing more than a support act to the league now a days. For me, it kind of knocks the stuffing out of the season when its on.." The Monaghan-Tyrone game today was decent entertainment because in the second half both teams went at it. They could throw off the shackles a bit because the game didn't matter......the championship starts next month and both of these teams are in it. Great to win yesterday.....no difference if you lose. If they were to meet again in a real match in a few weeks I couldn't see it being as attacking. I would 100% expect that Monaghan goal to be a fist over the bar equalizer. The shot on goal yesterday was the right call because the game meant nothing. Provincials are the core of the problem in the inter-county season. I don't see any argument for keeping them. As I've said here before, back in the day they could be used as a measure of progress in your team. They don't do that anymore and are valueless. Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 524 - 17/04/2023 10:01:21 2471307 Link
Replying To eoinog: "Easy to say Connacht is between Roscommon and Galway, as Mayo are out. You wouldn't have said that 10 days ago. Provincial titles are well worth fighting for. Tell any Monaghan or Roscommon person that they are irrelevant and see the response you will get. Neither will win the All Ireland this year. They won't turn their nose up at a provincial piece of silver ware" I fully agree with you. But as I've said, I think we could have something way better. And because of the constant questioning of our competition formats, I think allot of people feel the same.. Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1468 - 17/04/2023 10:06:31 2471308 Link
Replying To Greenfield: "The Monaghan-Tyrone game today was decent entertainment because in the second half both teams went at it. They could throw off the shackles a bit because the game didn't matter......the championship starts next month and both of these teams are in it. Great to win yesterday.....no difference if you lose. If they were to meet again in a real match in a few weeks I couldn't see it being as attacking. I would 100% expect that Monaghan goal to be a fist over the bar equalizer. The shot on goal yesterday was the right call because the game meant nothing. Provincials are the core of the problem in the inter-county season. I don't see any argument for keeping them. As I've said here before, back in the day they could be used as a measure of progress in your team. They don't do that anymore and are valueless." Have to disagree with you that the game meant nothing. Games that will mean something in other provinces will be a bore fest . Yesterday's game brought on players no end . Young players thrived yesterday on both teams and will have a hunger that no challenge match would ever give them, Monaghan has been written off for a decade now . And they will only improve after yesterday's spectacle stoneygrey (Monaghan) - Posts: 232 - 17/04/2023 10:26:16 2471311 Link
A lot of pundits are asking who can list league winners in comparison with All-Ireland winners. Provincial winners however do standout. Munster had 4 counties in the final 16 last year. 3 just happen to have a difficult opponent between them and a provincial title. The Tailteann is there now for counties where a provincial title is a bit out of reach. A good opportunity to win at their current level and use it as a springboard for future success. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8779 - 17/04/2023 10:34:15 2471314 Link
Replying To Fontofwisdom: "Stop taking the utterings of pundits -puke football, blanket defence, defensive play- as your own. If the 15 lads or girls who represent you believe that setting up to contain the opposition is the best means by which to win, and thus to allow you to celebrate a victory, giving up 6 months of their lives getting into shape to do so, maybe you should acknowledge their efforts. This nonsense about the state of gaelic football was driven by certain pundits, simply because the opposition were finding ways to beat their counties. When did Italy, Germany, Greece, decide that playing like Brazil was more important than being pragmatic, and winning. Why celebrate the success of Joe Schmitts Ireland, who won in their own way, and attack your own players for trying to give you success. That's the only change you need to make." I'm the first person to lament the publics ridiculous habit of unquestioningjy parroting what they hear on sports shows and the news etc, and I also happen to enjoy watching a team try to break down a blanket defence, but the game has changed alot over the last 20 years and people are entitled to complain about it if they feel that change has not been for the better. Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 17/04/2023 14:50:21 2471396 Link
Replying To stoneygrey: "Have to disagree with you that the game meant nothing. Games that will mean something in other provinces will be a bore fest . Yesterday's game brought on players no end . Young players thrived yesterday on both teams and will have a hunger that no challenge match would ever give them, Monaghan has been written off for a decade now . And they will only improve after yesterday's spectacle" It doesn't mean nothing but at the same time it means a lot less than it could. Tyrone aren't really disadvantaged In losing that match in terms of their All Ireland chances. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4519 - 18/04/2023 15:26:33 2471604 Link
Would a team prefer to win a provincial title or lose a All Ireland quarter final or semi final. Only one team can win an All Ireland . If you lose a quarter final you have really achieved nothing for the year unless you have a provential title. Winning League titles doesn't seem to cut the mustard at all eoinog (Sligo) - Posts: 2098 - 18/04/2023 16:11:41 2471612 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "It doesn't mean nothing but at the same time it means a lot less than it could. Tyrone aren't really disadvantaged In losing that match in terms of their All Ireland chances." Tyrone won't win the All Ireland so wouldn't an Ulster title be grand for them eoinog (Sligo) - Posts: 2098 - 18/04/2023 16:22:06 2471616 Link
Replying To eoinog: "Would a team prefer to win a provincial title or lose a All Ireland quarter final or semi final. Only one team can win an All Ireland . If you lose a quarter final you have really achieved nothing for the year unless you have a provential title. Winning League titles doesn't seem to cut the mustard at all" I agree eoinog… there are certain counties that know they will be at the business end of this All Ireland let it be QF/ SF or Final and they can take or leave their provincial championship knowing with the new system they are guaranteed a group place…. Others including my own county would get great satisfaction out of winning our province as we have absolutely no hope of winning the All Ireland… The system at present is somewhat flawed as it is totally geared towards the strongest counties and the chances of an upset are as good as 0%.,,,, ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3820 - 18/04/2023 16:36:59 2471626 Link
Replying To ForeverBlue2: "I agree eoinog… there are certain counties that know they will be at the business end of this All Ireland let it be QF/ SF or Final and they can take or leave their provincial championship knowing with the new system they are guaranteed a group place…. Others including my own county would get great satisfaction out of winning our province as we have absolutely no hope of winning the All Ireland… The system at present is somewhat flawed as it is totally geared towards the strongest counties and the chances of an upset are as good as 0%.,,,," It's a sports COMOETITION! to find the best team so naturally the strongest teams will be in the closing stages. A bit like the Olympics ....they favours the fastest runners. Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2293 - 18/04/2023 16:54:27 2471632 Link
Should be provincial champions only. Sligo could beat London and NY and be in Sam. Group seedings should be based on League performance. Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 746 - 18/04/2023 17:02:56 2471634 Link
The biggest problem is the Leinster championship. Leinster counties haven't been performing in the All-Ireland series at all. I know Munster titles have been hard to come by for other counties. In the qualifier era there have been two all Munster All-Ireland finals. Clare and Limerick have made the All-Ireland quarter-finals. Tipperary have made the All-Ireland semi-finals. As recently as last year, 4 Munster counties made the final 16. While Munster titles have been hard to come by, Munster counties have been competing well in the All-Ireland series. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8779 - 18/04/2023 17:12:44 2471637 Link
Replying To eoinog: "Tyrone won't win the All Ireland so wouldn't an Ulster title be grand for them" I agree, I cant understand why everyone is talking them up as contenders, they had an average league, didn't beat any the top teams in the div, beat armagh, kerry and Donegal at home and beat a second string monaghan in clones after 2 red cards. In the other games they got trimmed and showed nothing to say they were a threat. They played well v monaghan with the wind for 35 mins and got a goal from a bad kickout whilst playing their full strength team and then collapsed in the second half and gave away a 5 point lead. My mind is blown how people think they are contenders, their full forward line is small and light and their defence is wide open. monaghanmad (Monaghan) - Posts: 410 - 18/04/2023 17:20:02 2471639 Link
Replying To eoinog: "Tyrone won't win the All Ireland so wouldn't an Ulster title be grand for them" Tyrone are still 6th favourite for the All Ireland. They won it 2 years ago when they looked miles away before the real business started. They are outsiders but the All Ireland is so much more prestigious than the Ulster championship too because it is so hard to win. Anyway that's not really my point. The provincials are in a weird position where they matter very much to some counties in terms of the All Ireland but don't actually really matter for a lot of other counties. In a way it's a worse position than them just being stand alone competitions. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4519 - 18/04/2023 18:13:49 2471645 Link
Replying To monaghanmad: "I agree, I cant understand why everyone is talking them up as contenders, they had an average league, didn't beat any the top teams in the div, beat armagh, kerry and Donegal at home and beat a second string monaghan in clones after 2 red cards. In the other games they got trimmed and showed nothing to say they were a threat. They played well v monaghan with the wind for 35 mins and got a goal from a bad kickout whilst playing their full strength team and then collapsed in the second half and gave away a 5 point lead. My mind is blown how people think they are contenders, their full forward line is small and light and their defence is wide open." I take it that your tongue is firmly lodged in your cheek. Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2290 - 18/04/2023 19:06:41 2471653 Link
To answer the title thread it all depends where you're coming from and at what stage of development you're at. I'd argue they still mean a lot but they do seem to be heading down the road of being devalued. When Mayo were winning 5 in a row Connacht titles we were told by everyone else they were worthless… If Mayo went on to win an all Ireland, Connacht titles wouldn't even be mentioned. If we don't win the all Ireland (most likely) then looking back after the season a Connacht title would have been nice although a division 1 league is also "nice" silverware to have but bottom line failure to land the big one and the season is deemed a failure like every other year. yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11561 - 18/04/2023 19:19:14 2471660 Link
Replying To ForeverBlue2: "I agree eoinog… there are certain counties that know they will be at the business end of this All Ireland let it be QF/ SF or Final and they can take or leave their provincial championship knowing with the new system they are guaranteed a group place…. Others including my own county would get great satisfaction out of winning our province as we have absolutely no hope of winning the All Ireland… The system at present is somewhat flawed as it is totally geared towards the strongest counties and the chances of an upset are as good as 0%.,,,," As the championship progresses I reckon we'll see a lot of meaningless games as the big players know they will qualify for the quarter finals on the bridle. You are correct in stating that it makes it even more unlikely that a weaker team might pull off a shock and benefit from it, rather than most likely being caught the second time. If by some chance Laois were to beat Dublin on Sunday it would of course be a shock and headlines, but it probably would not alter either team's relative chances later on. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3515 - 18/04/2023 20:41:51 2471678 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "Tyrone are still 6th favourite for the All Ireland. They won it 2 years ago when they looked miles away before the real business started. They are outsiders but the All Ireland is so much more prestigious than the Ulster championship too because it is so hard to win. Anyway that's not really my point. The provincials are in a weird position where they matter very much to some counties in terms of the All Ireland but don't actually really matter for a lot of other counties. In a way it's a worse position than them just being stand alone competitions." That's exactly my point. If Tyrone or Mayo or a similar team don't win the All Ireland then they have nothing to show for the year. There's no honour attached to losing a semi or quarter final eoinog (Sligo) - Posts: 2098 - 18/04/2023 22:42:59 2471693 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "Tyrone are still 6th favourite for the All Ireland. They won it 2 years ago when they looked miles away before the real business started. They are outsiders but the All Ireland is so much more prestigious than the Ulster championship too because it is so hard to win. Anyway that's not really my point. The provincials are in a weird position where they matter very much to some counties in terms of the All Ireland but don't actually really matter for a lot of other counties. In a way it's a worse position than them just being stand alone competitions." Agree.I would never write Tyrone off.Posters writing a team off that were beaten by a late goal is silly.Monaghan were class but still needed a late sucker punch to flatten Tyrone.Tyrone are like a wounded animal when written off and they have some brilliant footballers.They have probably the best goalie in the country a solid midfield and classy forwards.Write them off at your peril. CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3904 - 18/04/2023 23:21:26 2471697 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "The biggest problem is the Leinster championship. Leinster counties haven't been performing in the All-Ireland series at all. I know Munster titles have been hard to come by for other counties. In the qualifier era there have been two all Munster All-Ireland finals. Clare and Limerick have made the All-Ireland quarter-finals. Tipperary have made the All-Ireland semi-finals. As recently as last year, 4 Munster counties made the final 16. While Munster titles have been hard to come by, Munster counties have been competing well in the All-Ireland series." Qualifiers can skew things a bit because it really comes down to the draw. For example, Cork were miles off last year - watched Meath throttle them in Navan in the league and we know how far Meath are off the pace. But they went out of the Munster championship and got a qualifier run of Louth & Limerick which saw them in an All Ireland 1/4 final. While Kildare on the other hand were beaten Leinster finalists and had to play Mayo in the qualifiers, so it really is all luck. Of course there will be exceptions, Clare's run through the all Ireland series last year was brilliant. Since 2010, out of a possible 12 Munster titles, Kerry have won 10 (2012 and the Covid yeah being the exception). In what way is that not a problem? and it is in Leinster? I've gone through the All Ireland series since 2010 and if you compare Munster/Leinster's appearances in All Ireland 1/4 finals, it's fairly even. There have been 23 appearances from Munster teams (Kerry, Cork, Clare & Tipperary, and 21 from Leinster (Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Laois). And outside of Dublin and Kerry since 2010, only Cork and Kildare have managed to win a game in the 1/4 final and onwards (Cork 2010 & 2012, Kildare 2010). So no Munster teams outside of Kerry have won a game in the 1/4 finals or onwards for 10 years, similar situation in Leinster. But I'm not sure how that points to Munster teams have been "competing well in the All-Ireland series". The reality is, none of the provincials are fit for purpose, and the GAA have now made them even more pointless because they're only relevant for a couple of teams. Tyrone and Mayo not get a nice break to prepare for the All Ireland series, lovely reward for getting knocked out of their respective championships. The problem is the structure and layout, all of the provincials bar Ulster are heavily skewed towards the bigger sides. I'm heavily in favour of a restructured championship that dumps the provincials. But I suspect and know the GAA will never go that route because there's too many people in positions of power within the provincials councils that don't want to give up their position so would never go for it. It's a shame because there is a format that works out there, the GAA just won't explore it hyperache (Meath) - Posts: 271 - 19/04/2023 10:17:06 2471716 Link