National Forum

Provincial Titles Are No Longer Relevant

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At least for football the provincial championship have become very irrelevant and boring. Leinster is basically Dublin. Munster Kerry, then you've Galway and Mayo, ulster is half decent.
It's no-longer a viable product. People want to see the best teams play each other in the summer and there are lots of uncompetitive games in the early stages before the real stuff kicks off.
I feel they should just collapse the Championship and league into one and make that the proper comp. Maybe then they can have an FA cup type knock out comp in there somewhere.

ColinWex (Wexford) - Posts: 901 - 13/04/2023 11:04:18    2470743

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Feels like a poor quality troll.

Connacht and Ulster are still great competitions.

Tiern1 (Limerick) - Posts: 21 - 13/04/2023 11:12:46    2470751

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Replying To ColinWex:  "At least for football the provincial championship have become very irrelevant and boring. Leinster is basically Dublin. Munster Kerry, then you've Galway and Mayo, ulster is half decent.
It's no-longer a viable product. People want to see the best teams play each other in the summer and there are lots of uncompetitive games in the early stages before the real stuff kicks off.
I feel they should just collapse the Championship and league into one and make that the proper comp. Maybe then they can have an FA cup type knock out comp in there somewhere."
I would not agree at all do you nor remember Munster Hurling Final 2022 an epic game some of the best league games I ever remember were pre Christmas.

Ulster & Connacht bot have decent Championships & Leinster is levelling out again after Masterful Dublin Team dominance.

clooney (Clare) - Posts: 984 - 13/04/2023 11:25:55    2470762

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Replying To ColinWex:  "At least for football the provincial championship have become very irrelevant and boring. Leinster is basically Dublin. Munster Kerry, then you've Galway and Mayo, ulster is half decent.
It's no-longer a viable product. People want to see the best teams play each other in the summer and there are lots of uncompetitive games in the early stages before the real stuff kicks off.
I feel they should just collapse the Championship and league into one and make that the proper comp. Maybe then they can have an FA cup type knock out comp in there somewhere."
I'm looking forward to going supporting Limerick against Clare in the Munster football semi final,did you not see what it meant to Clare footballers after beating cork,same Roscommon beating mayo,new York beating Leitrim,I still hope to see Limerick to become Munster football champions,I would hate to see the provincial championship fall away.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 783 - 13/04/2023 11:55:18    2470773

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Replying To ColinWex:  "At least for football the provincial championship have become very irrelevant and boring. Leinster is basically Dublin. Munster Kerry, then you've Galway and Mayo, ulster is half decent.
It's no-longer a viable product. People want to see the best teams play each other in the summer and there are lots of uncompetitive games in the early stages before the real stuff kicks off.
I feel they should just collapse the Championship and league into one and make that the proper comp. Maybe then they can have an FA cup type knock out comp in there somewhere."
"Then you've Galway and Mayo".
Last 6 Connacht Senior titles
Galway 2
Mayo 2
Roscommon 2.

U20
Sligo 2022
Ros 2021
Galway 2020

Minor
Mayo 2022/ Galway won AI
Sligo 2021
Ros 2020

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2293 - 13/04/2023 12:25:37    2470784

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I think only the provincial winners should be in the "A" championship.

In fact should there even be 16 teams in the top competition ? Are there even 16 teams that can hold their own ?

I don't think so myself.

A lot of mismatches on the way.

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2929 - 13/04/2023 12:29:37    2470788

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If there was no link between the Provincial Championships and the All Ireland [the top teams now do not need the provincials to qualify for the final16] would you go to your counties provincials games or would you stay at home? I know in my case it would not make any difference. Was at the Mayo v Roscommon game on Sunday and would have been at it even if the Connacht Championship was a stand alone competition.

edu (Mayo) - Posts: 99 - 13/04/2023 12:42:57    2470793

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Provincial titles are still relevant and have remained so even during the qualifier era. Provincial Championships should be able to stand on their own two feet but there is no need to throw out the baby with the bathwater!
Under the current structure I think counties will soon find out that winning a provincial title will provide the best platform for two wins. Seed 3 at home and Seed 4 away provides the best platform for two wins.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8779 - 13/04/2023 14:15:03    2470827

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Replying To cityman73:  "I'm looking forward to going supporting Limerick against Clare in the Munster football semi final,did you not see what it meant to Clare footballers after beating cork,same Roscommon beating mayo,new York beating Leitrim,I still hope to see Limerick to become Munster football champions,I would hate to see the provincial championship fall away."
Yes but not chance Kerry far too dominant at minute have to be realistic

Gaaforlife2023 (Longford) - Posts: 695 - 13/04/2023 15:06:07    2470838

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Replying To Gaaforlife2023:  "Yes but not chance Kerry far too dominant at minute have to be realistic"
Provincial hunger is related to recent success. It was good for Galway to win Connacht last year. Mayo and Galway are eyeing an All-Ireland. They can dust themselves down from a provincial defeat. Same in other provinces. Armagh are probably qualified through the league but still beat Antrim. Where teams are in a cycle of eyeing All-Ireland, they are not going to be getting carried away with provincial success. It doesn't diminish provincial success. It is just reality.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8779 - 13/04/2023 16:17:46    2470854

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Replying To Gaaforlife2023:  "Yes but not chance Kerry far too dominant at minute have to be realistic"
Ya agree Kerry are very strong but like the team we had during the 2000's getting so close, there is nothing saying we can't get a very strong Limerick team again and hopefully win one,where we will probably never win all-ireland, provincial still means something to us,when Tipperary won it a couple of years ago,I was delighted for them but so jealous.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 783 - 13/04/2023 19:23:35    2470885

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Replying To sponger:  "I think only the provincial winners should be in the "A" championship.

In fact should there even be 16 teams in the top competition ? Are there even 16 teams that can hold their own ?

I don't think so myself.

A lot of mismatches on the way."
Why not though? No reason not to have finalists there too seeing as Championship is rewarded. What other way would you do it? It has to be rewarded some way sure.

And if you're thinking that way, you'd be cutting off the very top few only. I'd reckon the 10 to 12 outside the top sides are all of a level where they'd compete with and best each others just fine. Mismatches only with a select few you'd find. Most of the matches will be fine bar the quirk with one Connacht finalist

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2466 - 13/04/2023 19:54:06    2470892

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Provincial draws based on league ranking is the solution. Clare and Limerick should have been drawn against Tipperary and Waterford. Kerry and Cork then being drawn against the winners.
Mayo should have gotten a bye to the Connacht semi-final. Galway v Roscommon in the quarter-final due to the rotation of playing London and New York. Mayo and the Galway v Roscommon winner against Sligo and New York in the semi-finals.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8779 - 14/04/2023 09:27:50    2470919

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Louth, Meath, Offaly and Westmeath are all battling to make a provincial final. For Offaly and Meath, unless they make the provincial final then they won't make the AI series, it's very relevant for those teams.

PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1661 - 14/04/2023 09:35:56    2470922

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Replying To ColinWex:  "At least for football the provincial championship have become very irrelevant and boring. Leinster is basically Dublin. Munster Kerry, then you've Galway and Mayo, ulster is half decent.
It's no-longer a viable product. People want to see the best teams play each other in the summer and there are lots of uncompetitive games in the early stages before the real stuff kicks off.
I feel they should just collapse the Championship and league into one and make that the proper comp. Maybe then they can have an FA cup type knock out comp in there somewhere."
Roscommon have won the same amount as Galway and Mayo the past 6 seasons.

My problem always with taking away the provincial is you eliminate four trophies and a lot of teams only chance to aim for something at the highest level.
Roscommon, Cavan and Tipp are examples of counties who really arent going to compete for Sam but had great wins in the provincial. However, I am being swayed a bit more in the direction of changing it up the past two seasons or so. Dublin are not as good as they were yet the other Leinster counties seem to be degressing at a fierce rate. The likes of Meath are in big trouble and continue to slide

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 14/04/2023 09:51:58    2470925

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Roscommon have won the same amount as Galway and Mayo the past 6 seasons.

My problem always with taking away the provincial is you eliminate four trophies and a lot of teams only chance to aim for something at the highest level.
Roscommon, Cavan and Tipp are examples of counties who really arent going to compete for Sam but had great wins in the provincial. However, I am being swayed a bit more in the direction of changing it up the past two seasons or so. Dublin are not as good as they were yet the other Leinster counties seem to be degressing at a fierce rate. The likes of Meath are in big trouble and continue to slide"
That's it exactly. We'd be taking more trophies out of the game and leaving very little options for some lesser counties to win something

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2466 - 14/04/2023 10:41:09    2470942

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Replying To ColinWex:  "At least for football the provincial championship have become very irrelevant and boring. Leinster is basically Dublin. Munster Kerry, then you've Galway and Mayo, ulster is half decent.
It's no-longer a viable product. People want to see the best teams play each other in the summer and there are lots of uncompetitive games in the early stages before the real stuff kicks off.
I feel they should just collapse the Championship and league into one and make that the proper comp. Maybe then they can have an FA cup type knock out comp in there somewhere."
Maybe have the provincials as the FA Cup type competitions somewhere in the calendar of League and Championship or League Championship as you say. No league based seeding for provinces, and comletely separate and no relevance to All Ireland championship. It's not a GAA thing to have intercounty competitions run concurrently but, like the FA Cup, they could start Provincials before League finishes. Roll the league out in a longer timeframe so that teams could start championship soon after league finishes, without the staggered championship start times that different size provincial competitions causes.

Be careful what you wish for though when you say 'People want to see the best teams play each other in the summer and there are lots of uncompetitive games in the early stages before the real stuff kicks off'. Which people? A TV audience with no county loyalty and don't go to many games? Driving the standard of top football up and the lower standard down to have competitive games might be good for 3 or 4 years but potentially will discourage potential players in so-called weaker counties away from Gaelic football as they see bordering counties play a better brand of football. Difficult to do but I think somehow they need to do more than Tailteann to improve standard if Division 3 and 4 counties. Some other competition where they can test themselves against and learn from counties of a higher standard. The backdoor for all it's faults gave that opportunity and the chance of an upset.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7971 - 14/04/2023 11:48:18    2470966

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Maybe have the provincials as the FA Cup type competitions somewhere in the calendar of League and Championship or League Championship as you say. No league based seeding for provinces, and comletely separate and no relevance to All Ireland championship. It's not a GAA thing to have intercounty competitions run concurrently but, like the FA Cup, they could start Provincials before League finishes. Roll the league out in a longer timeframe so that teams could start championship soon after league finishes, without the staggered championship start times that different size provincial competitions causes.

Be careful what you wish for though when you say 'People want to see the best teams play each other in the summer and there are lots of uncompetitive games in the early stages before the real stuff kicks off'. Which people? A TV audience with no county loyalty and don't go to many games? Driving the standard of top football up and the lower standard down to have competitive games might be good for 3 or 4 years but potentially will discourage potential players in so-called weaker counties away from Gaelic football as they see bordering counties play a better brand of football. Difficult to do but I think somehow they need to do more than Tailteann to improve standard if Division 3 and 4 counties. Some other competition where they can test themselves against and learn from counties of a higher standard. The backdoor for all it's faults gave that opportunity and the chance of an upset."
10 Leinster Counties gave been "testing themselves" against Dublin for the last 20 years or so.
Their standards have gone down in a big way.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2293 - 14/04/2023 13:34:49    2470982

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Very subjective I think.

I'd take one in either code if it was on offer

Leinster titles have kept us going since 96

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3575 - 14/04/2023 13:35:29    2470983

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Maybe have the provincials as the FA Cup type competitions somewhere in the calendar of League and Championship or League Championship as you say. No league based seeding for provinces, and comletely separate and no relevance to All Ireland championship. It's not a GAA thing to have intercounty competitions run concurrently but, like the FA Cup, they could start Provincials before League finishes. Roll the league out in a longer timeframe so that teams could start championship soon after league finishes, without the staggered championship start times that different size provincial competitions causes.

Be careful what you wish for though when you say 'People want to see the best teams play each other in the summer and there are lots of uncompetitive games in the early stages before the real stuff kicks off'. Which people? A TV audience with no county loyalty and don't go to many games? Driving the standard of top football up and the lower standard down to have competitive games might be good for 3 or 4 years but potentially will discourage potential players in so-called weaker counties away from Gaelic football as they see bordering counties play a better brand of football. Difficult to do but I think somehow they need to do more than Tailteann to improve standard if Division 3 and 4 counties. Some other competition where they can test themselves against and learn from counties of a higher standard. The backdoor for all it's faults gave that opportunity and the chance of an upset."
My own view is that the provincial championships have really been watered down under this new format. Even Ulster does nt hold the same prestige as before and even Paddy McKee we of Armagh stating same. In the past a provincial title was the second biggest title a team could win. Imo the league title (in div 1) is now better than a provincial title. Of course Ulster us still a great championship and Connaught not too bad either and of course now the likes of Clare Cavan and Meath have to battle hard to try secure a last 16 slot. On the backdoor there are pros and cons. I mean yes we have shocks but it's very hard for a weaker county to beat a big team twice. Having said that we have had great runs like Fermanagh and Tipperary reaching all Ireland semi finals. I just think this new format really is for the top teams. With 3 out of 4 to qualify it gives the top teams too much leeway. Look even last weekend while it was a brilliant for The Rossies. Mayo did nt seem overly upset and know well that the chances are they will be in the last 12 anyway.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3904 - 14/04/2023 14:43:48    2470997

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