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There are 12 counties in Leinster only 4 of whom compete in the Leinster Senior hurling championship.Of these Kilkenny don't play senior football while Wexford are already Tailteann cup contenders that just leaves Dublin and Westmeath.
There are a lot of questions Leinster people need to address regarding upgrading our teams in both codes but also in hurling why are we helping Galway and Antrim when we clearly need more investment in Westmeath,Offaly,Laois,Carlow and Kildare who are trying so hard in both codes.
jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1459 - 10/04/2023 18:00:47
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Replying To jobber: "There are 12 counties in Leinster only 4 of whom compete in the Leinster Senior hurling championship.Of these Kilkenny don't play senior football while Wexford are already Tailteann cup contenders that just leaves Dublin and Westmeath.
There are a lot of questions Leinster people need to address regarding upgrading our teams in both codes but also in hurling why are we helping Galway and Antrim when we clearly need more investment in Westmeath,Offaly,Laois,Carlow and Kildare who are trying so hard in both codes." I think Galway and Antrim are helping you as much as you are helping them. Two way street. The way you described Leinster sounds like help was needed. It's obvious that Munster is the gold standard of hurling as far as COMPETITION goes. There are some positives in Leinster Hurling though as Offaly and Kildare have improved and in U20 Kilkenny and Galway were both beaten by Leinster teams….
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2129 - 11/04/2023 07:25:11
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Replying To jobber: "There are 12 counties in Leinster only 4 of whom compete in the Leinster Senior hurling championship.Of these Kilkenny don't play senior football while Wexford are already Tailteann cup contenders that just leaves Dublin and Westmeath.
There are a lot of questions Leinster people need to address regarding upgrading our teams in both codes but also in hurling why are we helping Galway and Antrim when we clearly need more investment in Westmeath,Offaly,Laois,Carlow and Kildare who are trying so hard in both codes." Yes - big problems in Leinster Gaa jobber. I am more informed on Football.
Looking at league standings you have 4 counties in the top 2 divisions with Meath and Kildare hanging on in D2 . And is it possible that only 3 will be competing in the Sam Maguire? If Cavan or Down manage to make it to an Ulster Final and Louth make it to the Leinster final? (I could be wrong)
Maybe the result of years of neglect by the Croke Park after pushing and promoting GAA in Dublin at the expense of their neighbors?
Cbar (Mayo) - Posts: 308 - 11/04/2023 07:38:57
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Replying To jobber: "There are 12 counties in Leinster only 4 of whom compete in the Leinster Senior hurling championship.Of these Kilkenny don't play senior football while Wexford are already Tailteann cup contenders that just leaves Dublin and Westmeath.
There are a lot of questions Leinster people need to address regarding upgrading our teams in both codes but also in hurling why are we helping Galway and Antrim when we clearly need more investment in Westmeath,Offaly,Laois,Carlow and Kildare who are trying so hard in both codes." Galway were parachuted in to help the Championship as well as themselves. Antrim got promoted last year. I don't think the Leinster Council invests any money in either. I agree more needs to be done to promote hurling in the Joe Mac and Christy Ring competitions.
I'm not sure why Leinster counties like Meath and Kildare are becoming less competitive at football though. Massive playing numbers, good club set up, both should be doing alot better in the Senior Football championship. For the rest of us it takes a Golden generation of footballers to come along. Or maybe particularly good management. Sometimes from another county. Mickey Harte has got a bounce out of Louth. As did Micko and Paudi in times past.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12041 - 11/04/2023 07:43:13
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Replying To jobber: "There are 12 counties in Leinster only 4 of whom compete in the Leinster Senior hurling championship.Of these Kilkenny don't play senior football while Wexford are already Tailteann cup contenders that just leaves Dublin and Westmeath.
There are a lot of questions Leinster people need to address regarding upgrading our teams in both codes but also in hurling why are we helping Galway and Antrim when we clearly need more investment in Westmeath,Offaly,Laois,Carlow and Kildare who are trying so hard in both codes." The like of Carlow, Laois , Westmeath and Offaly are small counties trying to facilitate 2 intercounty sides equally. When you consider only Galway were able to compete in Division 1 football and hurling this year, it goes to show how difficult it is for even the larger counties to run two top tier intercounty sides. Dublin and Galway are the only ones that consistently do it.
TaosHum (Carlow) - Posts: 236 - 11/04/2023 08:50:15
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The likes of Galway and Antrim will only help Leinster GAA by raising the standard.
Westmeath, Laois, etc need to start being at very least more competitive at underage level.
But the structure of the championship and the creation of a yo-yo system for these counties is a problem the GAA has to fix.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1138 - 11/04/2023 09:37:10
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Don't forget the rest of us Leinster counties. Nothing makes your eyes roll in a county like mine than the phrase 'hurling revival'. We have had so many over the years, and all failed spectacularly due to lack of real investment and follow-thru. We have 3 hurling clubs and the club championship consists of 2 games! Has been same for 20 years now. Lots of 'revival' talk but zero growth at club level. Those who persist with it are absolute legends, but there needs to be more done to reward them and encourage more to follow.
Antrim and Galway enhance the Leinster hurling scene. Both are established hurling counties with a great number of well established hurling clubs. The same can't be said for a number of counties in Leinster. If HQ is serious about investing in and growing hurling in so-called weaker counties, they need to put their money where their mouth is. And not just a few development bibs and hurleys. Serious structural and people investment. I won't hold my breath and will be surprised if there is any hurling played in Longford in 20 years time, which is a shame.
LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 473 - 11/04/2023 11:11:10
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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú: "Don't forget the rest of us Leinster counties. Nothing makes your eyes roll in a county like mine than the phrase 'hurling revival'. We have had so many over the years, and all failed spectacularly due to lack of real investment and follow-thru. We have 3 hurling clubs and the club championship consists of 2 games! Has been same for 20 years now. Lots of 'revival' talk but zero growth at club level. Those who persist with it are absolute legends, but there needs to be more done to reward them and encourage more to follow.
Antrim and Galway enhance the Leinster hurling scene. Both are established hurling counties with a great number of well established hurling clubs. The same can't be said for a number of counties in Leinster. If HQ is serious about investing in and growing hurling in so-called weaker counties, they need to put their money where their mouth is. And not just a few development bibs and hurleys. Serious structural and people investment. I won't hold my breath and will be surprised if there is any hurling played in Longford in 20 years time, which is a shame." Could not agree more.Leinster are helping Croke park but what are headquarters doing for us.Westmeath a county of 90000 people are one of the 2 Leinster counties in both premier competitions but we could be out of both in 2024.We have no centre of excellence while HQ sends tens of millions to Cork and Belfast to develop GAA grounds who make White Elephants look cheap and useful.Neither of these in 2023 will probably play in both major competitions despite having huge populations.Clare,Laois Offaly,Carlow,and ourselves are the best proper GAA counties but Croke Park sticks the money in Dublin( who at least are making use of it)Cork and Belfast.
jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1459 - 11/04/2023 14:17:24
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From a Wicklow perspective I have long held the belief that we have exponentially more potential to grow & improve in Hurling than in Football. With some help from Leinster Council/Croke Park we could be competing at Joe McDonagh level within 10 years.
Over the years Wicklow County board have been completely Football biased in terms of all decision making with an almost destructive attitude to Hurling.
This Football centric attitude hasn't exactly had us pulling up any trees in the Leinster Championship and despite some greenshoots of late at underage , we are still absolutely miles off of being competitive at Sam Maguire level.
Over the past 20 years , Hurling hotbeds in rural areas of the county have been allowed decline in favor of football - Barndarrig, Avoca, Arklow , Avondale, Aughrim were all once proud Hurling first areas and now do not field Hurling teams at all or have Hurling barely hanging on by a thread. (the exception being Aughrim who have begun to field again at adult level in the past 2 years and look to be making great progress)
Carnew, down on the Wexford border, were the traditional kingpins of Wicklow hurling and even they have fell on hard times with a long gap now since they last won a senior hurling championship.
Our county board's reaction to this decline in Hurling? non-existent basically.
I believe ,with even a reasonable level of resourcing/investment/promotion, Wicklow could follow in the footsteps of Kildare and begin to move up a tier or two in Hurling.
Hawkeye2 (Wicklow) - Posts: 122 - 11/04/2023 15:41:44
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Replying To Hawkeye2: "From a Wicklow perspective I have long held the belief that we have exponentially more potential to grow & improve in Hurling than in Football. With some help from Leinster Council/Croke Park we could be competing at Joe McDonagh level within 10 years.
Over the years Wicklow County board have been completely Football biased in terms of all decision making with an almost destructive attitude to Hurling.
This Football centric attitude hasn't exactly had us pulling up any trees in the Leinster Championship and despite some greenshoots of late at underage , we are still absolutely miles off of being competitive at Sam Maguire level.
Over the past 20 years , Hurling hotbeds in rural areas of the county have been allowed decline in favor of football - Barndarrig, Avoca, Arklow , Avondale, Aughrim were all once proud Hurling first areas and now do not field Hurling teams at all or have Hurling barely hanging on by a thread. (the exception being Aughrim who have begun to field again at adult level in the past 2 years and look to be making great progress)
Carnew, down on the Wexford border, were the traditional kingpins of Wicklow hurling and even they have fell on hard times with a long gap now since they last won a senior hurling championship.
Our county board's reaction to this decline in Hurling? non-existent basically.
I believe ,with even a reasonable level of resourcing/investment/promotion, Wicklow could follow in the footsteps of Kildare and begin to move up a tier or two in Hurling." I have no doubt you are right.The hurling people must stand together.Our counties are crying out for investment we promote the games far better per head than your glory teams but HW only see big lights.What can we do its very frustrating.
jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1459 - 11/04/2023 16:57:16
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Replying To Hawkeye2: "From a Wicklow perspective I have long held the belief that we have exponentially more potential to grow & improve in Hurling than in Football. With some help from Leinster Council/Croke Park we could be competing at Joe McDonagh level within 10 years.
Over the years Wicklow County board have been completely Football biased in terms of all decision making with an almost destructive attitude to Hurling.
This Football centric attitude hasn't exactly had us pulling up any trees in the Leinster Championship and despite some greenshoots of late at underage , we are still absolutely miles off of being competitive at Sam Maguire level.
Over the past 20 years , Hurling hotbeds in rural areas of the county have been allowed decline in favor of football - Barndarrig, Avoca, Arklow , Avondale, Aughrim were all once proud Hurling first areas and now do not field Hurling teams at all or have Hurling barely hanging on by a thread. (the exception being Aughrim who have begun to field again at adult level in the past 2 years and look to be making great progress)
Carnew, down on the Wexford border, were the traditional kingpins of Wicklow hurling and even they have fell on hard times with a long gap now since they last won a senior hurling championship.
Our county board's reaction to this decline in Hurling? non-existent basically.
I believe ,with even a reasonable level of resourcing/investment/promotion, Wicklow could follow in the footsteps of Kildare and begin to move up a tier or two in Hurling." I recently counted circa 20 adult hurling teams across 3 divisions in Wicklow. How we are in the Nicky Rackard is beyond me. Competing against counties that have only 2 or 3 clubs.
liam500 (Wicklow) - Posts: 175 - 11/04/2023 20:39:02
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Replying To jobber: "Could not agree more.Leinster are helping Croke park but what are headquarters doing for us.Westmeath a county of 90000 people are one of the 2 Leinster counties in both premier competitions but we could be out of both in 2024.We have no centre of excellence while HQ sends tens of millions to Cork and Belfast to develop GAA grounds who make White Elephants look cheap and useful.Neither of these in 2023 will probably play in both major competitions despite having huge populations.Clare,Laois Offaly,Carlow,and ourselves are the best proper GAA counties but Croke Park sticks the money in Dublin( who at least are making use of it)Cork and Belfast." And Antrim aren't a proper GAA county? Good to see the casual disdain for Ulster is alive and kicking in Westmeath.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 739 - 11/04/2023 21:43:13
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Replying To Rolo2010: "And Antrim aren't a proper GAA county? Good to see the casual disdain for Ulster is alive and kicking in Westmeath." Antrim clubs have won AI Club titles in both codes. Only Galway, Cork, Dublin and Limerick can make the same boast, although Antrim clubs have won more AI club titles than Limerick. The other 3 have far more adult players in both codes than Antrim. Not bad for a county who aren't a proper GAA county......
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12041 - 12/04/2023 08:37:50
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Replying To Viking66: "Antrim clubs have won AI Club titles in both codes. Only Galway, Cork, Dublin and Limerick can make the same boast, although Antrim clubs have won more AI club titles than Limerick. The other 3 have far more adult players in both codes than Antrim. Not bad for a county who aren't a proper GAA county......" What's the Nationalist population of County Antrim (incl Belfast)?
250k?
Ye should be able to priduce serious County football and hurling teams from that base.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1438 - 12/04/2023 11:18:49
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Replying To Viking66: "Antrim clubs have won AI Club titles in both codes. Only Galway, Cork, Dublin and Limerick can make the same boast, although Antrim clubs have won more AI club titles than Limerick. The other 3 have far more adult players in both codes than Antrim. Not bad for a county who aren't a proper GAA county......" By God, ever day is a school day. I never realised this in relation to Antrim GAA.
St.Mologga (Cork) - Posts: 108 - 12/04/2023 11:19:31
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If there is no will in a club or county for one code or the other, it is not going to happen. So no matter what resources you throw at it there has to be a baseline of support on/off the pitch for a sport to thrive.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 12/04/2023 17:17:31
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Replying To arock: "If there is no will in a club or county for one code or the other, it is not going to happen. So no matter what resources you throw at it there has to be a baseline of support on/off the pitch for a sport to thrive." This is precisely it, and it's time somebody said so, because this discussion is now taking place in two or three different threads on this forum.
If Longford or Wicklow or Westmeath or anywhere else wants dedicated extra supports for hurling in the county, there are processes and resources available through Croke Park and the provincial councils. But to get them, you have to make it clear that you really do want them, and that you'll make best use of them.
That means a county like Longford (for example) drawing up a proper hurling development plan, explaining how they see it working, and including realistic and measurable metrics to gauge its success each year. If there's insufficient will within the county to make it happen, then it simply ain't gonna happen.
Croke Park or a provincial council is not just going to throw extra resources and funding at a county in the hope that something might stick if they throw it for long enough. That'd be just good money after bad each year. It's up to a county to (a) decide they want more resources, (b) come up with a plan good enough to qualify for them, and (c) make sure they use the extra resources properly and get best results from them.
Personally, I'd love to see a strong hurling scene in Longford, Wicklow, and everywhere else. But it's up to the counties themselves to start to make it happen, instead of expecting others to magically come in and do it for them.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2252 - 12/04/2023 17:46:45
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Replying To Rolo2010: "And Antrim aren't a proper GAA county? Good to see the casual disdain for Ulster is alive and kicking in Westmeath." Rather than railing against an imagined slur against a county of 600000 + and i know some of those dont like the GAA why dont you help make your own county be a proper GAA one and show your plans in an ULSTER hurling topic.Antrim as a county havent doe a thing of note in football since 1968.
jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1459 - 12/04/2023 18:02:58
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Replying To Pikeman96: "This is precisely it, and it's time somebody said so, because this discussion is now taking place in two or three different threads on this forum.
If Longford or Wicklow or Westmeath or anywhere else wants dedicated extra supports for hurling in the county, there are processes and resources available through Croke Park and the provincial councils. But to get them, you have to make it clear that you really do want them, and that you'll make best use of them.
That means a county like Longford (for example) drawing up a proper hurling development plan, explaining how they see it working, and including realistic and measurable metrics to gauge its success each year. If there's insufficient will within the county to make it happen, then it simply ain't gonna happen.
Croke Park or a provincial council is not just going to throw extra resources and funding at a county in the hope that something might stick if they throw it for long enough. That'd be just good money after bad each year. It's up to a county to (a) decide they want more resources, (b) come up with a plan good enough to qualify for them, and (c) make sure they use the extra resources properly and get best results from them.
Personally, I'd love to see a strong hurling scene in Longford, Wicklow, and everywhere else. But it's up to the counties themselves to start to make it happen, instead of expecting others to magically come in and do it for them." Oh my god... the amount of times Longford had hurling development plans drawn up over the past 30 years, and went into schools and set up schools hurling the length and breath of the county....... It made no difference and all fizzled out because the end result was not backed by sustained structural funding including funding those who do it, regularly, full time! Two things we don't have in abundance are money and dedicated hurling heads, and those are the two things which didn't come back to us when the many many many development plans were submitted over many many decades.
Saying we didn't try hard enough just adds to the eye roll up here. The expansion of hurling in Longford for example is not going to happen organically, the history and tradition simply is not there to enable that. You guys are luckier than we are in that regard. It has to be created and that involves much more than plans, of which there have been a great many over the years and with zero results.
LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 473 - 13/04/2023 11:33:49
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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú: "Oh my god... the amount of times Longford had hurling development plans drawn up over the past 30 years, and went into schools and set up schools hurling the length and breath of the county....... It made no difference and all fizzled out because the end result was not backed by sustained structural funding including funding those who do it, regularly, full time! Two things we don't have in abundance are money and dedicated hurling heads, and those are the two things which didn't come back to us when the many many many development plans were submitted over many many decades.
Saying we didn't try hard enough just adds to the eye roll up here. The expansion of hurling in Longford for example is not going to happen organically, the history and tradition simply is not there to enable that. You guys are luckier than we are in that regard. It has to be created and that involves much more than plans, of which there have been a great many over the years and with zero results." Unfortunately, it appears to me that you've just proven the point.
If Longford has already had repeated funding and resources made available over the years, but with little or no tangible benefits for hurling at the end of it, then surely the conclusion has to be that there's neither sufficient will, inclination or interest there to make a sustained effort in developing hurling.
A great pity.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2252 - 13/04/2023 12:08:05
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