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Joe McDonagh Cup 2023

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Replying To slayer:  "Really enjoy the posts in this thread & also very much enjoy any coverage of the McDonagh cup on TV. Just wondering if the MacCarthy Cup was expanded to 16 teams and if hurling was structured somewhat like football is now, would there be interest from the McDonagh Cup sides in playing in an expanded MacCarthy Cup?

I take the points made about Kildare totally. There is a step up between all 5 hurling championship divisions and sometimes I wonder if that 5 was flattened to 2 or 3 would that help or hinder? Even within the MacCarthy cup and McDonagh cups there can be very one sided games. So is the structure working?

As someone watching hurling for 40+ years I long for a breakthrough like Offaly in 1980 but not sure if that is possible anymore? Very interested to hear views on this as seeing hurling promoted in counties outside of the MacCarthy cup is one of the most inspiring things about the game. It's not all about the big trophy."
Offaly reached 5 Leinster finals between 1901 and 1969 before winning 1 in 1980, followingit up with another along with the AI in 1981. So it's not as if they came from nowhere exactly. There was always hurling played there it took a golden generation of players. Laois and Kerry already have won AIs. So I'd be guessing you would be looking at Antrim, Kildare, Meath, Westmeath in that order as next most likely to break their AI ducks and Carlow, Derry, Wicklow and Down probably after that. The reason I have Kildare and Meath that far up the list is the playing numbers they have, although if any of those counties got a golden generation it could be them. That doesn't mean it's likely in the next few years though, and the GAA isn't exactly helping promote hurling in any of those counties either.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15669 - 15/05/2023 14:26:30    2478697

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Replying To Viking66:  "Offaly reached 5 Leinster finals between 1901 and 1969 before winning 1 in 1980, followingit up with another along with the AI in 1981. So it's not as if they came from nowhere exactly. There was always hurling played there it took a golden generation of players. Laois and Kerry already have won AIs. So I'd be guessing you would be looking at Antrim, Kildare, Meath, Westmeath in that order as next most likely to break their AI ducks and Carlow, Derry, Wicklow and Down probably after that. The reason I have Kildare and Meath that far up the list is the playing numbers they have, although if any of those counties got a golden generation it could be them. That doesn't mean it's likely in the next few years though, and the GAA isn't exactly helping promote hurling in any of those counties either."
What do you think could be done differently Viking66?

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 15/05/2023 14:47:55    2478705

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A reasonable suggestion was put forward on here before that the All-Ireland hurling be in 2 groups of 6. It was a fair shout and the weeks are available for it to fit into the current calendar. The provincial championships can be run as a knockout for the 12 teams with the winners and runners-up seeded 1 and 2 for the group stage.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8773 - 15/05/2023 14:48:29    2478707

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Replying To slayer:  "What do you think could be done differently Viking66?"
It has to start from the bottom up. Clubs have to have hurling from u6 upwards. National schools have to have initiatives like the Hurling365 down here. Obviously in counties or areas of counties that don't have a hurling tradition this will mean lads will have to be paid to go into these clubs and schools to coach the kids, at least for a few years until the system starts sustaining itself and local coaches/parents can be shown what to do and how to go about it. As the kids get older they will need better coaching at secondary school and club level. I know in Kildare and Carlow clubs in Kilkenny for example are doing great service by playing these clubs, which in turn raises the standard there. I'm sure clubs in the other top 9 counties would help also.
Counties like Laois, Waterford, Offaly, Wexford and Clare don't have huge playing numbers compared to Cork, Dublin Tipp, Kilkenny and Galway, but given a golden generation such as Wexford had in the 50s and 60s, Waterford in the late 50s, Laois in the 19teens, Offaly in the 80s and 90s, Clare in the 90s and 20teens, even Limerick in the 30s and currently, a period of sustained success can be achieved.
Competition structure as it is with the Joe Mac, Christy Ring etc provides a decent pathway for counties at the top adult level.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15669 - 15/05/2023 15:27:09    2478722

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Replying To Viking66:  "It has to start from the bottom up. Clubs have to have hurling from u6 upwards. National schools have to have initiatives like the Hurling365 down here. Obviously in counties or areas of counties that don't have a hurling tradition this will mean lads will have to be paid to go into these clubs and schools to coach the kids, at least for a few years until the system starts sustaining itself and local coaches/parents can be shown what to do and how to go about it. As the kids get older they will need better coaching at secondary school and club level. I know in Kildare and Carlow clubs in Kilkenny for example are doing great service by playing these clubs, which in turn raises the standard there. I'm sure clubs in the other top 9 counties would help also.
Counties like Laois, Waterford, Offaly, Wexford and Clare don't have huge playing numbers compared to Cork, Dublin Tipp, Kilkenny and Galway, but given a golden generation such as Wexford had in the 50s and 60s, Waterford in the late 50s, Laois in the 19teens, Offaly in the 80s and 90s, Clare in the 90s and 20teens, even Limerick in the 30s and currently, a period of sustained success can be achieved.
Competition structure as it is with the Joe Mac, Christy Ring etc provides a decent pathway for counties at the top adult level."
I think you're spot on about it starting from u6 up. It's too late waiting til kids are 8/9 years of age. Promoting the game in non hurling areas of a county is another must but a difficult step to make. A thing that bugs me in my own county is the lack of schools hurling in the main town. For carlow to thrive at hurling surely the game needs to be promoted in schools in the town. I didn't make it to Ballycran a couple of weeks back when carlow were playing Down as I had a family event on. While I was in town I noticed a few kids with carlow gear on them. I'd hazard a guess that they had no idea their county team were playing at that time. With Carlow again reaching a McDonagh Cup final now surely is the time to capitalise on it. Whether that's Down to the county board, gaa or a combination of both it needs to happen imo.

Unusedsub (Carlow) - Posts: 116 - 15/05/2023 18:44:54    2478804

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Replying To Viking66:  "It has to start from the bottom up. Clubs have to have hurling from u6 upwards. National schools have to have initiatives like the Hurling365 down here. Obviously in counties or areas of counties that don't have a hurling tradition this will mean lads will have to be paid to go into these clubs and schools to coach the kids, at least for a few years until the system starts sustaining itself and local coaches/parents can be shown what to do and how to go about it. As the kids get older they will need better coaching at secondary school and club level. I know in Kildare and Carlow clubs in Kilkenny for example are doing great service by playing these clubs, which in turn raises the standard there. I'm sure clubs in the other top 9 counties would help also.
Counties like Laois, Waterford, Offaly, Wexford and Clare don't have huge playing numbers compared to Cork, Dublin Tipp, Kilkenny and Galway, but given a golden generation such as Wexford had in the 50s and 60s, Waterford in the late 50s, Laois in the 19teens, Offaly in the 80s and 90s, Clare in the 90s and 20teens, even Limerick in the 30s and currently, a period of sustained success can be achieved.
Competition structure as it is with the Joe Mac, Christy Ring etc provides a decent pathway for counties at the top adult level."
I have to agree wholeheartedly with you on this. I know a few decent hurlers from an East Wicklow Club ( yes, we do produce some hurlers who would get on any or most county teams) and they always maintain if kids don't start till after 8/9.it's almost too late. In the stronger counties a Hurley is almost a standard part of a primary school kit. We here don't look after the schools very well as regards hurling and have no " hurling" colleges like some of the stronger counties.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1609 - 16/05/2023 16:34:43    2479031

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Replying To Freethinker:  "I have to agree wholeheartedly with you on this. I know a few decent hurlers from an East Wicklow Club ( yes, we do produce some hurlers who would get on any or most county teams) and they always maintain if kids don't start till after 8/9.it's almost too late. In the stronger counties a Hurley is almost a standard part of a primary school kit. We here don't look after the schools very well as regards hurling and have no " hurling" colleges like some of the stronger counties."
All our lads have hurls. And it wouldn't be a tradition in either side of their family. But they enjoy it as much or even more than football, which they play equally and for which the club would be better known.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15669 - 16/05/2023 18:03:31    2479070

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Replying To Freethinker:  "I have to agree wholeheartedly with you on this. I know a few decent hurlers from an East Wicklow Club ( yes, we do produce some hurlers who would get on any or most county teams) and they always maintain if kids don't start till after 8/9.it's almost too late. In the stronger counties a Hurley is almost a standard part of a primary school kit. We here don't look after the schools very well as regards hurling and have no " hurling" colleges like some of the stronger counties."
Out of curiosity, do any of the Wicklow hurling clubs play in the Dublin or Wexford leagues?

TaosHum (Carlow) - Posts: 250 - 17/05/2023 06:31:29    2479137

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Replying To TaosHum:  "Out of curiosity, do any of the Wicklow hurling clubs play in the Dublin or Wexford leagues?"
Not in the Wexford Leagues as far as I know. But there is crossover of pupils in schools.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15669 - 17/05/2023 10:13:06    2479173

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Replying To TaosHum:  "Out of curiosity, do any of the Wicklow hurling clubs play in the Dublin or Wexford leagues?"
Bray Emmets have teams in some of the Dublin leagues but not sure at what levels. Just underage i think.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3506 - 17/05/2023 10:33:33    2479182

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Replying To slayer:  "Really enjoy the posts in this thread & also very much enjoy any coverage of the McDonagh cup on TV. Just wondering if the MacCarthy Cup was expanded to 16 teams and if hurling was structured somewhat like football is now, would there be interest from the McDonagh Cup sides in playing in an expanded MacCarthy Cup?

I take the points made about Kildare totally. There is a step up between all 5 hurling championship divisions and sometimes I wonder if that 5 was flattened to 2 or 3 would that help or hinder? Even within the MacCarthy cup and McDonagh cups there can be very one sided games. So is the structure working?

As someone watching hurling for 40+ years I long for a breakthrough like Offaly in 1980 but not sure if that is possible anymore? Very interested to hear views on this as seeing hurling promoted in counties outside of the MacCarthy cup is one of the most inspiring things about the game. It's not all about the big trophy."
Hey lad,

I still remember your post (a couple of years ago now) where you equated certain Slayer songs to moments in Limerick hurling!!! That was deadly \m/

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 17/05/2023 11:08:14    2479204

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Bray Emmets have teams in some of the Dublin leagues but not sure at what levels. Just underage i think."
Bray have been making great strides the last 10 years. Great to see! Massive population there if they can get lads hurling.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15669 - 17/05/2023 11:08:24    2479205

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Replying To Viking66:  "Bray have been making great strides the last 10 years. Great to see! Massive population there if they can get lads hurling."
Bray Emmets also compete in the Dublin Intermediate league. O believe they won promotion last year. I don't know what grade they came into the leagues at.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1609 - 17/05/2023 18:55:56    2479299

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We are 8 days from the Joe McDonagh Cup final and there has been no time or venue published officially. You'd have to question the GAA's commitment to hurling when such details for a final between teams ranked 12 and 13 in the hurling championship have not been published. There's not a hope in hell that the same scenario would apply to the final of the Tailteann Cup.

hurlingguru (Carlow) - Posts: 1838 - 19/05/2023 11:18:51    2479602

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Replying To hurlingguru:  "We are 8 days from the Joe McDonagh Cup final and there has been no time or venue published officially. You'd have to question the GAA's commitment to hurling when such details for a final between teams ranked 12 and 13 in the hurling championship have not been published. There's not a hope in hell that the same scenario would apply to the final of the Tailteann Cup."
The Joe Mc from its inception has been a great competition with very poor TV coverage. The coverage of the Tailteann Cup has been way better. All games seem to be covered in Tailteann with highlights. Couldn't believe they actually showed the final 3 McDonagh group games on Saturday night for a change. Welcome. Better late than never.

HurlingObserver (Down) - Posts: 66 - 19/05/2023 11:35:41    2479606

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Replying To hurlingguru:  "We are 8 days from the Joe McDonagh Cup final and there has been no time or venue published officially. You'd have to question the GAA's commitment to hurling when such details for a final between teams ranked 12 and 13 in the hurling championship have not been published. There's not a hope in hell that the same scenario would apply to the final of the Tailteann Cup."
Has just been announced. Was held up by the anomaly in the rule over U20 players eligibility for senior, where the rule that applies to Liam McCarty Cup counties (can't play at both levels within seven days) doesn't apply to counties in the lower tiers.

Joe McDonagh Cup Final: Croke Park, Saturday 27 May, 4.45 p.m.
U20 All-Ireland Final: Semple Stadium, Sunday 4 June, 3 p.m.

To me, it's a ridiculous situation. If the rule is to remain on the books, it should apply equally to all counties. Otherwise, get rid of it altogether.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2854 - 19/05/2023 12:02:43    2479615

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Replying To hurlingguru:  "We are 8 days from the Joe McDonagh Cup final and there has been no time or venue published officially. You'd have to question the GAA's commitment to hurling when such details for a final between teams ranked 12 and 13 in the hurling championship have not been published. There's not a hope in hell that the same scenario would apply to the final of the Tailteann Cup."
Right on cue, confirmed for Saturday at 4.45pm in Croke Park.

hurlingguru (Carlow) - Posts: 1838 - 19/05/2023 12:09:52    2479617

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Within the current rules it is fair for Offaly. The unexpected always happens for the GAA!
It's a pity the McDonagh will be a standalone fixture. Maybe the Ring and McDonagh should be a double header going forward.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8773 - 19/05/2023 12:55:52    2479630

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Bray Emmets also compete in the Dublin Intermediate league. O believe they won promotion last year. I don't know what grade they came into the leagues at."
Great to hear.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15669 - 19/05/2023 12:58:20    2479632

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Within the current rules it is fair for Offaly. The unexpected always happens for the GAA!
It's a pity the McDonagh will be a standalone fixture. Maybe the Ring and McDonagh should be a double header going forward."
Within the current rules, it is *allowed* for Offaly. I'm not so sure that it's fair.

I repeat: if the rule is to be kept, it should apply equally to all. Otherwise, get rid of it.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2854 - 19/05/2023 13:56:01    2479654

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