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Joe McDonagh Cup 2023

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Can only beat whats in front of you on any given day. After seen the performance still think a full strength Offaly team would have struggled yesterday. Would have been a lot tighter but no guarantee they would have beat us.

One of the best performances I've ever seen from any Carlow county team ever touch stick work long range striking and work rate all through the roof.

The Carlow hurlers are definitely the definition of squeezing every drop of potential out of every player and maximizing results. Thinking 11 of the 15 starting came from 2 clubs shows what can be done when everyone buys in and works together.

Regarding laois should have beat us that day but they didn't and they didn't beat Offaly either. Tbh if shoe was on other foot and they could have put out a weaker team to knock Carlow out it would go without saying they would do it in a heartbeat, let's not forget that in all this there no angels themselves

Roll on croker and hopefully we can claim our second Joe Mac...

ITSCHOLAR (Carlow) - Posts: 311 - 14/05/2023 12:10:10    2478270

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Replying To skirge7:  "What would hapyig Offaly were in both matches? Wouldn't be ideal. I'm sure the big-wigs thought a Joe McDonagh county wouldn't make an u20 final"
They have every chance. I'd still feel they are favourites against us.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15669 - 14/05/2023 12:23:27    2478282

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Replying To CARPS:  "On what grounds do you assume a fully strength Offaly would have beaten Carlow? Who were unbeaten coming into the game, and beat Offaly (by five points) last year?

And if Leix are 'really good' why didn't they beat Carlow? They had their chance."
Spot on lad. Round Robins are a series of games. Laois not qualifying for the final wasn't because of one game.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15669 - 14/05/2023 12:24:56    2478283

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Replying To skirge7:  "Offaly really screwed a good Laois team over. Laois should have really beaten Carlow on that day I suppose. It'll be a tough division next year with Westmeath and Laois."
And why are you assuming Westmeath will be in the Joe Mac next year?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15669 - 14/05/2023 12:26:31    2478284

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "It is not Offaly's job to get Laois to a final in fairness! They were perfectly entitled to pick whatever team they chose, especially given the amount of games they've played in short period and the cross over with the under 20s.

It does, however, point to a flaw in round robins that will have collateral damage. Same possibly will happen in final round of Leinster senior and is almost a certainty in the football groups, where it is not beyond bounds of possibility that qualified teams will be able to avoid others if they were so inclined."
Carlow put themselves in a position to profit with the draws with Laois and Kerry. A discussion for another day should be the introduction of a semi-final for 2nd v 3rd. The top 3 in Munster and Leinster qualify from those groups. The lower tiers arguably could allow the top 3 qualify from the group stage as well. After yesterday's result, Offaly v Laois would have made for a very interesting semi-final. Last year Kerry v Carlow would have been an interesting semi-final. It is bizarre that Division 2A of the league has a 2nd v 3rd semi-final but the "championship" does not have a similar semi-final.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8773 - 14/05/2023 16:36:28    2478366

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Replying To CARPS:  "On what grounds do you assume a fully strength Offaly would have beaten Carlow? Who were unbeaten coming into the game, and beat Offaly (by five points) last year?

And if Leix are 'really good' why didn't they beat Carlow? They had their chance."
Perception. Offaly had a 100% record and won Division 2A. Carlow sure did have a good win over Offaly last year. Offaly will be favourites in the final. Seems fair but Carlow as they showed last year are well capable of winning.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8773 - 14/05/2023 17:18:32    2478383

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The biggest surprise of the McDonagh Cup is Kildare. Do they go straight back down to Christy Ring or tis there a play off?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1616 - 14/05/2023 19:18:25    2478450

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Replying To oneoff:  "The biggest surprise of the McDonagh Cup is Kildare. Do they go straight back down to Christy Ring or tis there a play off?"
Relegated back to the Ring. League is not championship. League form is not a guarantee of championship success.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8773 - 14/05/2023 20:15:48    2478478

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Replying To oneoff:  "The biggest surprise of the McDonagh Cup is Kildare. Do they go straight back down to Christy Ring or tis there a play off?"
Wasn't really. Down, Laois, Offaly are seasoned championship campaigners. Kerry and Carlow likewise. Kildare are still building up to that level.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15669 - 14/05/2023 22:17:42    2478515

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Carlow put themselves in a position to profit with the draws with Laois and Kerry. A discussion for another day should be the introduction of a semi-final for 2nd v 3rd. The top 3 in Munster and Leinster qualify from those groups. The lower tiers arguably could allow the top 3 qualify from the group stage as well. After yesterday's result, Offaly v Laois would have made for a very interesting semi-final. Last year Kerry v Carlow would have been an interesting semi-final. It is bizarre that Division 2A of the league has a 2nd v 3rd semi-final but the "championship" does not have a similar semi-final."
If there was a semi Offaly would have fielded a full team, to avoid it.

skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 254 - 15/05/2023 00:56:24    2478539

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Replying To oneoff:  "The biggest surprise of the McDonagh Cup is Kildare. Do they go straight back down to Christy Ring or tis there a play off?"
Tom Mullalley (Carlow manager), was saying that with Kehoe Cup, League and Championship you have to make a decision on what you plan on targeting and peaking for, especially when you have a small panel and limited resources.

With the condensed calendar, teams are now playing nearly every week (if you make league semi and final) for 3 months. Kildare targeted the league and to their credit, they reached a final, but it meant they were spent by the time the Championship came around.

It's a set back, but the county are making huge strides at underage and some harsh lessons have probably been learned this season. Expect them to make a quick return.

TaosHum (Carlow) - Posts: 250 - 15/05/2023 07:36:20    2478544

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Replying To Viking66:  "Wasn't really. Down, Laois, Offaly are seasoned championship campaigners. Kerry and Carlow likewise. Kildare are still building up to that level."
Well this is also true.

It's the never ending question of how to improve these teams.

On paper st least Kildare should be too strong for Christy Ring next year. Will it benefit them by winning it? More than likely not. But it'll benefit them even less if they don't.

There's also the danger of lads losing interest. Outside of the Mccarthy teams it's very easy for teams to fall back.

At the start of the 2010s it was Armagh who were being spoken about similar to Kildare now. For one reason or another it just never happened. Even Wicklow would have been similar around that time.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1616 - 15/05/2023 09:10:48    2478553

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Replying To skirge7:  "If there was a semi Offaly would have fielded a full team, to avoid it."
They might not have won anyway.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15669 - 15/05/2023 09:36:02    2478558

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Replying To oneoff:  "Well this is also true.

It's the never ending question of how to improve these teams.

On paper st least Kildare should be too strong for Christy Ring next year. Will it benefit them by winning it? More than likely not. But it'll benefit them even less if they don't.

There's also the danger of lads losing interest. Outside of the Mccarthy teams it's very easy for teams to fall back.

At the start of the 2010s it was Armagh who were being spoken about similar to Kildare now. For one reason or another it just never happened. Even Wicklow would have been similar around that time."
Pockets of Wicklow are still hurling mad. Its growing the game into the rest of the county had been the problem. That's why Brays success last year was so welcome.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15669 - 15/05/2023 09:37:20    2478560

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Replying To TaosHum:  "Tom Mullalley (Carlow manager), was saying that with Kehoe Cup, League and Championship you have to make a decision on what you plan on targeting and peaking for, especially when you have a small panel and limited resources.

With the condensed calendar, teams are now playing nearly every week (if you make league semi and final) for 3 months. Kildare targeted the league and to their credit, they reached a final, but it meant they were spent by the time the Championship came around.

It's a set back, but the county are making huge strides at underage and some harsh lessons have probably been learned this season. Expect them to make a quick return."
Agree. Next year's Christy Ring is already a foregone conclusion. It's Kildare's …. by a distance.

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1556 - 15/05/2023 09:56:53    2478569

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Replying To skirge7:  "If there was a semi Offaly would have fielded a full team, to avoid it."
You would think so. I used the final table as a template but yeah, Offaly would have had the group win and final qualification to play for.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8773 - 15/05/2023 10:11:07    2478580

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Replying To Onion Breath:  "Agree. Next year's Christy Ring is already a foregone conclusion. It's Kildare's …. by a distance."
I thought that about Meath this year but it hasn't been so easy. Kildare probably are a bit ahead of Meath though to be fair.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8773 - 15/05/2023 10:12:43    2478581

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Replying To skirge7:  "Offaly really screwed a good Laois team over. Laois should have really beaten Carlow on that day I suppose. It'll be a tough division next year with Westmeath and Laois."
This is Laois that have barely won a match in 2 years.

They lost to Offaly and drew with Carlow.

They lost to Westmeath to get relegated from Division 1.

How are they a good team ?

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1536 - 15/05/2023 11:55:00    2478651

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Really enjoy the posts in this thread & also very much enjoy any coverage of the McDonagh cup on TV. Just wondering if the MacCarthy Cup was expanded to 16 teams and if hurling was structured somewhat like football is now, would there be interest from the McDonagh Cup sides in playing in an expanded MacCarthy Cup?

I take the points made about Kildare totally. There is a step up between all 5 hurling championship divisions and sometimes I wonder if that 5 was flattened to 2 or 3 would that help or hinder? Even within the MacCarthy cup and McDonagh cups there can be very one sided games. So is the structure working?

As someone watching hurling for 40+ years I long for a breakthrough like Offaly in 1980 but not sure if that is possible anymore? Very interested to hear views on this as seeing hurling promoted in counties outside of the MacCarthy cup is one of the most inspiring things about the game. It's not all about the big trophy.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 15/05/2023 13:25:55    2478675

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Replying To slayer:  "Really enjoy the posts in this thread & also very much enjoy any coverage of the McDonagh cup on TV. Just wondering if the MacCarthy Cup was expanded to 16 teams and if hurling was structured somewhat like football is now, would there be interest from the McDonagh Cup sides in playing in an expanded MacCarthy Cup?

I take the points made about Kildare totally. There is a step up between all 5 hurling championship divisions and sometimes I wonder if that 5 was flattened to 2 or 3 would that help or hinder? Even within the MacCarthy cup and McDonagh cups there can be very one sided games. So is the structure working?

As someone watching hurling for 40+ years I long for a breakthrough like Offaly in 1980 but not sure if that is possible anymore? Very interested to hear views on this as seeing hurling promoted in counties outside of the MacCarthy cup is one of the most inspiring things about the game. It's not all about the big trophy."
The MacDonagh cup is a great level competition. Id be worried about 16 teams
being able to compete at the same level in hurling.

For example Limerick playing Down or Kildare would be a serious mismatch.

The two MacDonagh finalists coming into the All-Ireland series works well as it
stands.

Now if the top teams could lower their standards a little bit, that would help as
well but its just getting better at the top table which is great to watch.

But hard to bridge the gap.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1536 - 15/05/2023 14:20:09    2478696

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