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Replying To legendzxix: "With provincial finalists making the All-Ireland, it would be fair to have an agreed seeding across all provinces. I know the tradition has been for early provincial draws but with league having a higher profile, the provincial championships could benefit from a draw after the league using the league seedings." Given the importance of the AIC 4x4 groups, I think they could be drawn after all Prov QFs (played early).
Teams from the same Prov in the Top 16 could be placed in a different group (if there is a 5th team, place them in a group different from any team that beat them in the Prov).
All teams play a crossover 12-game season against all in the other 3 groups, incl KO Prov SFs and Finals (any Prov Tier 1v2 pairings can't double up).
4 group winners and 4 others advance to 'Liam Mc Cup, Last 8' style playoffs (similar to Aussie AFL, 4 best record teams get a double chance, like Prov SHC Finals, 4 others to KO QF Playoff Rd).
Tier 2 operates the same way with 4x4, but their Playoff 8 merge with non-Playoff 8 from Tier 1 for 16-team playoffs.
Last 8 in both Tier 1 & Tier 2 to Tier 1 4x4 groups in the following year.
To keep the Prov Championships meaningful, Champs need to get into the Best 8 to advance to the AIC Playoff stage.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2573 - 05/04/2023 13:54:02
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Replying To omahant: "Given the importance of the AIC 4x4 groups, I think they could be drawn after all Prov QFs (played early).
Teams from the same Prov in the Top 16 could be placed in a different group (if there is a 5th team, place them in a group different from any team that beat them in the Prov).
All teams play a crossover 12-game season against all in the other 3 groups, incl KO Prov SFs and Finals (any Prov Tier 1v2 pairings can't double up).
4 group winners and 4 others advance to 'Liam Mc Cup, Last 8' style playoffs (similar to Aussie AFL, 4 best record teams get a double chance, like Prov SHC Finals, 4 others to KO QF Playoff Rd).
Tier 2 operates the same way with 4x4, but their Playoff 8 merge with non-Playoff 8 from Tier 1 for 16-team playoffs.
Last 8 in both Tier 1 & Tier 2 to Tier 1 4x4 groups in the following year.
To keep the Prov Championships meaningful, Champs need to get into the Best 8 to advance to the AIC Playoff stage." The format this year is clean enough. League, provincial championships and then All-Ireland or Tailteann. With provincial finalists qualifying it has allowed the Tailteann to start on the second weekend of football provincial finals.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7827 - 05/04/2023 16:55:28
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Some pundits are suggesting that provincial championships should be before the league. Just as the Tailteann Cup winner enters the league as already qualified for the All-Ireland. The 4 provincial winners can enter the league as already qualified.
The league then can be used to rank all teams for the championship draws. Provincial winners can be drawn in different groups but league ranking would determine seeding. It is a notable suggestion. The year can start with provincial leagues and then provincial championships. Then move on to the National League and All-Ireland championship.
Using last year's provincial winners as winners in March. Dublin and Derry already qualified would have been playing for the Seed 2 bracket by making the Division 2 final. Cavan and Fermanagh would have been battling for the final All-Ireland spot. The bottom 4 in Division 2 would have been battling for 2 All-Ireland spots.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7827 - 07/04/2023 10:29:20
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Replying To legendzxix: "Some pundits are suggesting that provincial championships should be before the league. Just as the Tailteann Cup winner enters the league as already qualified for the All-Ireland. The 4 provincial winners can enter the league as already qualified.
The league then can be used to rank all teams for the championship draws. Provincial winners can be drawn in different groups but league ranking would determine seeding. It is a notable suggestion. The year can start with provincial leagues and then provincial championships. Then move on to the National League and All-Ireland championship.
Using last year's provincial winners as winners in March. Dublin and Derry already qualified would have been playing for the Seed 2 bracket by making the Division 2 final. Cavan and Fermanagh would have been battling for the final All-Ireland spot. The bottom 4 in Division 2 would have been battling for 2 All-Ireland spots." As it is, the top teams already league qualified before kicking a Provincial Championship ball - my 12-match 4x4 above has the Prov KO baked into the 12-match programme - it's flexible enough that you could schedule the Prov SFs and Finals for any of the later rounds you'd prefer (forgot I'd posted it here - repeated again in one of today's posts).
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2573 - 07/04/2023 19:53:49
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Following Clare's defeat of Cork in Munster, either them or Limerick are guaranteed to make the Munster final.
Teams outside the Top 16 qualified for the Sam Maguire
Westmeath (2022 Tailteann Cup winners)
Sligo/New York (Connacht finalists)
Clare/Limerick (Munster finalists)
Assuming the remaining provincial finalists come from the top teams in the league, this leaves the remaining places to be filled by the top 13.
11. Louth
12. Cork
13. Kildare
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14. Meath
15. Cavan (Div 3 winners)
Meath's only chance of making it now is to qualify for the Leinster final. Note: they will NOT be reprieved if Westmeath make the Leinster final. In that instance, even though Westmeath will be doubly qualified, it doesn't free up a spot; even if you see it as them having vacated their Tailteann Cup slot, the top 13 would still become a top 12 on account of them being a lower division team, and then would be reinflated to a top 13 on account of their Tailteann Cup slot being empty. But it wouldn't be a top 14 again; that ship sailed when Clare beat Cork.
Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1029 - 10/04/2023 10:34:29
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Replying To legendzxix: "Some pundits are suggesting that provincial championships should be before the league. Just as the Tailteann Cup winner enters the league as already qualified for the All-Ireland. The 4 provincial winners can enter the league as already qualified.
The league then can be used to rank all teams for the championship draws. Provincial winners can be drawn in different groups but league ranking would determine seeding. It is a notable suggestion. The year can start with provincial leagues and then provincial championships. Then move on to the National League and All-Ireland championship.
Using last year's provincial winners as winners in March. Dublin and Derry already qualified would have been playing for the Seed 2 bracket by making the Division 2 final. Cavan and Fermanagh would have been battling for the final All-Ireland spot. The bottom 4 in Division 2 would have been battling for 2 All-Ireland spots." I think with 3 advancing from the groups, seeding is overplayed.
What do you think of my 4 groups of 4, 12-match crossover? With each Prov SF 4 spread across the groups, Prov SF & Final pairings are built into the schedule, as they are for Prov QF & 1st Rd as well, with match opponents split to different groups?
Maybe we don't need to silo the League, Provs & AIC, when you can link them all together in one competition.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2573 - 10/04/2023 17:22:27
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Replying To PattyONeill: "Meath belong in the Tailteann cup as I think it is named after a festival that took place somewhere around that region. Recently I read on a forum that the ancient kingdom of Meath actually was around the area where modern county Westmeath is. It makes sense as Meath means middle." its great that people are finally realising that Westmeath are the real Midhe(Middle) while our poor neighbours are refugees caught in the east.
jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1445 - 11/04/2023 14:29:44
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As things stand now, Meath, Limerick, Cavan and Fermanagh will be Number 1 seeds in TC.
This could change if Meath reaches Leinster Final and of course if Limerci reaches a Munster final and either Cavan/Fermanagh reaches an Ulster final.
At the moment the following teams are confirmed in the TC
Seed 2 - Antrim
Seed 3 - Leitrim and Longford.
Seed 4 - Carlow, London, Waterford and Wexford.
The remaining nine teams will be confirmed over next two weekends. New York will possibly join (in knockout stages) in that time period also
Jack L (None) - Posts: 3099 - 11/04/2023 14:59:20
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