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Tomsmith here
I have watched many games of football in my life including footage of our great victory in Gaelic Park New York in 1947 , when we beat Kerry in an All Ireland final played in New York. Aye and beat them well. But the the game now has deteriated to the extent that people will soon be looking for money to go to sit and watch a game.
Ough even down in Junior football in some Counties it is all possession sure it is now gone like the beautiful game you could fall asleep and miss nothing.
Them two or three individuals who were responsible for this new possession culture should receive a life time ban from the GAA.
tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3855 - 08/02/2023 09:46:27
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You want managers who think up new tactics, within the rules of the game to be given lifetime bans? I think that's a quicker way to lose the fan base than any demand to keep things as they were in the 1950s. You should get out for some fresh air Tom and stop living in the past. I'm sure it was great when Cavan where lording it in waterlogged pitches and dodging right hooks every time they were in possession, but times change and it's not always a bad thing.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 08/02/2023 12:26:03
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The GAA is engrained in the DNA of most of the population of Ireland and whereever they go they are proud to see their county winning and beating their neighbouring county etc or even winning a competition it is this pride of place keeps people interested in GAA.
Counties where hurling is a big sport it normally overshadows football like in Limerick, Kilkenny, Tipperary , Waterford , Clare , Wexford & to a lesser degree in Cork, Offaly etc . Most that have a choice of their county playing both at a reasonable level seem to choose hurling.
Where theres little Hurling people dont have much choice but put all their GAA interests into football even if it is a product thats becoming less & Less exciting to watch due to fitness , Science & Stats taking the spontanity out of Gaelic Football.
OpenStand (Limerick) - Posts: 669 - 08/02/2023 14:11:42
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Replying To OpenStand: "The GAA is engrained in the DNA of most of the population of Ireland and whereever they go they are proud to see their county winning and beating their neighbouring county etc or even winning a competition it is this pride of place keeps people interested in GAA.
Counties where hurling is a big sport it normally overshadows football like in Limerick, Kilkenny, Tipperary , Waterford , Clare , Wexford & to a lesser degree in Cork, Offaly etc . Most that have a choice of their county playing both at a reasonable level seem to choose hurling.
Where theres little Hurling people dont have much choice but put all their GAA interests into football even if it is a product thats becoming less & Less exciting to watch due to fitness , Science & Stats taking the spontanity out of Gaelic Football." I dont think fitness/science and stats are taking anything from gaelic football but what would you change to improve gaelic be it rule changes, how its refereed or anything else?
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 08/02/2023 15:59:59
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Replying To KillingFields: "I dont think fitness/science and stats are taking anything from gaelic football but what would you change to improve gaelic be it rule changes, how its refereed or anything else?" You can't really change anything. They bring penalties in and people go mad due to it being common in soccer. I'd pick a hurling match anyday but it isn't big in Donegal. I hope Antrim come good eventually because it would at least give people a chance to see top tier hurling in Ulster.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 08/02/2023 16:43:21
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Replying To SaffronDon: "You want managers who think up new tactics, within the rules of the game to be given lifetime bans? I think that's a quicker way to lose the fan base than any demand to keep things as they were in the 1950s. You should get out for some fresh air Tom and stop living in the past. I'm sure it was great when Cavan where lording it in waterlogged pitches and dodging right hooks every time they were in possession, but times change and it's not always a bad thing." Tom from Cavan is 100% correct Football is now terrible to watch maybe the big teams who have good inside forwards that can finish disguised to negative stuff to a degree.
He is not living in past only saying what many from the football Counties are saying Gaelic Football is brutal to watch now dont give away possession cant shoot until you wear out he opposition they have tries different things Mark inside mark ect but Coached have killed it.
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 878 - 08/02/2023 16:44:56
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Replying To KillingFields: "I dont think fitness/science and stats are taking anything from gaelic football but what would you change to improve gaelic be it rule changes, how its refereed or anything else?" Leave the game alone KillingFields. There has been far too much poorly judged tinkering with it by officialdom. It's no different to any other field sport in that it is less spontaneous than in the past. Like every other field sport you get some poor games, some good games and some great games. There is an increased emphasis on retention of possession and understandably so. Armagh lost possession inside Mayo's 50 yard line last Sunday. 10 seconds later they were clearing the ball off their own goal line. Thirty years ago teams weren't worried about giving the ball away because they knew the opposition were just as careless when it came to retention of possession. I watched the 1996 All Ireland final replay between Meath and Mayo recently. In a two minute passage of play the ball was given away nine times. Crazy stuff. In the 1990 final between Meath and Cork Martin O Connell under no pressure from inside his own fifty yard line kicked the ball straight to Shay Fahd. It was a woeful mistake given that Cork were down to fourteen men. Fahy scored a point and Cork won by two points. In all sports now maximisation of your possession is king.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 08/02/2023 19:18:04
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Replying To tomsmith: "Tomsmith here
I have watched many games of football in my life including footage of our great victory in Gaelic Park New York in 1947 , when we beat Kerry in an All Ireland final played in New York. Aye and beat them well. But the the game now has deteriated to the extent that people will soon be looking for money to go to sit and watch a game.
Ough even down in Junior football in some Counties it is all possession sure it is now gone like the beautiful game you could fall asleep and miss nothing.
Them two or three individuals who were responsible for this new possession culture should receive a life time ban from the GAA." Ah here. Even you can do better than that pathetic excuse for a post.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 08/02/2023 19:19:09
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I think there are a lot of spoofers out there who seek to justify their importance and expenses by making their teams difficult to beat more so than empowering their teams to win.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9110 - 08/02/2023 20:02:40
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The seemingly never ending cycle of backwards and sideways handpassing in order to keep possession, especially when a team is winning, is just brutal to watch. But what is utterly soul destroying is when a team, having done 2 or 3 minutes of this sideways back and forth, then proceed to kick the ball 50 yards back to their goalie to "recycle" the ball and begin another sequence of keep ball.
People have suggested the "shot clock" as in basketball where a team has 30 or 60 seconds or whatever to get a shot on goal or else concede possession. The argument against it being that the team out of possession would just put 15 men behind the ball..... but that's practically what's happening now anyway!
But from a practical point of view, that rule may not be feasible. It would need a specific time keeper to monitor the shot clock, which I'm sure could be easily arranged for big intercounty championship games, not so much junior club games out the country!
An easier rule to enforce, and which would make it easier for teams to put pressure on the team in possession, would be the introduction of a rule preventing a team from passing a ball back past the halfway line once they cross into the opponent's half (another basketball rule). They could still try and keep possession all they want, if that's their thing, but at least they wouldn't have the "out" ball of the 50 yard pass back to their goalie. So it would give defending teams an added impetus to win possession back and launch counter-attacks.
ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 09/02/2023 08:04:03
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Didn't even have to click in to know who started this thread.
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 09/02/2023 09:35:51
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Replying To Lockjaw: "I think there are a lot of spoofers out there who seek to justify their importance and expenses by making their teams difficult to beat more so than empowering their teams to win." There are a lot more spoofers pontificating on Hoganstand.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 09/02/2023 09:52:50
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Replying To clooney: "Tom from Cavan is 100% correct Football is now terrible to watch maybe the big teams who have good inside forwards that can finish disguised to negative stuff to a degree.
He is not living in past only saying what many from the football Counties are saying Gaelic Football is brutal to watch now dont give away possession cant shoot until you wear out he opposition they have tries different things Mark inside mark ect but Coached have killed it." So you want coaches to stop coaching their teams to keep possession or tell them not to wear the opposition down, is that it? Sport doesn't exist to entertain at all costs. Sometimes you get a great day out and other times, not so much. Just like years ago there were some awful games mixed in with some classics. The problem is, when we see a bad modern game, the first place most fans turn to is how open a game was years ago while leaving out all the atrocious games they pretend they didn't see. All the aimless hail Mary balls up the field to nobody, county footballers with beer bellys having to kick the ball because they didn't have the fitness to carry past a similarly conditioned full back. We can all have selective memories about the game to suit an agenda. But for me the game still throws up classics like it always did. Unfortunately some people demand this every week as though it's a TV series.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 09/02/2023 10:03:09
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On a slightly different angle a mate of mine just watchs the second half of football matchs on TV saying the first halfs are normally cagey getting to know you & safety first periods of play ie the more boring parts but as the game goes on players get tired, looser play and they have to go for it at some point leading to the more exciting parts of games .
OpenStand (Limerick) - Posts: 669 - 09/02/2023 10:04:26
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Yes football has become more possession based but so has must field sports around the world.
I don't think managers are telling our players not to kick the ball I just think there is a fear within players that if they turnover the ball it will result in a score.
Try and watch a match from 20 years and look at the quality of football and how much better it is now. You had massive amount of wide's and turnovers. Players just kicking the ball out of defense without lifting there heads.
The All Ireland series last year was a great watch with some brilliant scores and movement of the ball.
Temple56 (Westmeath) - Posts: 383 - 09/02/2023 10:24:36
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Leave the game alone KillingFields. There has been far too much poorly judged tinkering with it by officialdom. It's no different to any other field sport in that it is less spontaneous than in the past. Like every other field sport you get some poor games, some good games and some great games. There is an increased emphasis on retention of possession and understandably so. Armagh lost possession inside Mayo's 50 yard line last Sunday. 10 seconds later they were clearing the ball off their own goal line. Thirty years ago teams weren't worried about giving the ball away because they knew the opposition were just as careless when it came to retention of possession. I watched the 1996 All Ireland final replay between Meath and Mayo recently. In a two minute passage of play the ball was given away nine times. Crazy stuff. In the 1990 final between Meath and Cork Martin O Connell under no pressure from inside his own fifty yard line kicked the ball straight to Shay Fahd. It was a woeful mistake given that Cork were down to fourteen men. Fahy scored a point and Cork won by two points. In all sports now maximisation of your possession is king.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5879 - 08/02/2023 19:18:04
The game cant just be left alone as leaving it alone is putting your head in the stand and all sports need to evolve over time.
The seemingly never ending cycle of backwards and sideways handpassing in order to keep possession, especially when a team is winning, is just brutal to watch. But what is utterly soul destroying is when a team, having done 2 or 3 minutes of this sideways back and forth, then proceed to kick the ball 50 yards back to their goalie to "recycle" the ball and begin another sequence of keep ball.
People have suggested the "shot clock" as in basketball where a team has 30 or 60 seconds or whatever to get a shot on goal or else concede possession. The argument against it being that the team out of possession would just put 15 men behind the ball..... but that's practically what's happening now anyway!
But from a practical point of view, that rule may not be feasible. It would need a specific time keeper to monitor the shot clock, which I'm sure could be easily arranged for big intercounty championship games, not so much junior club games out the country!
An easier rule to enforce, and which would make it easier for teams to put pressure on the team in possession, would be the introduction of a rule preventing a team from passing a ball back past the halfway line once they cross into the opponent's half (another basketball rule). They could still try and keep possession all they want, if that's their thing, but at least they wouldn't have the "out" ball of the 50 yard pass back to their goalie. So it would give defending teams an added impetus to win possession back and launch counter-attacks.
ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1216 - 09/02/2023 08:04:03A shot clock isnt the answer but back pass rule be it at 65m/45m or half way would work.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 09/02/2023 10:49:42
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Replying To KillingFields: "Leave the game alone KillingFields. There has been far too much poorly judged tinkering with it by officialdom. It's no different to any other field sport in that it is less spontaneous than in the past. Like every other field sport you get some poor games, some good games and some great games. There is an increased emphasis on retention of possession and understandably so. Armagh lost possession inside Mayo's 50 yard line last Sunday. 10 seconds later they were clearing the ball off their own goal line. Thirty years ago teams weren't worried about giving the ball away because they knew the opposition were just as careless when it came to retention of possession. I watched the 1996 All Ireland final replay between Meath and Mayo recently. In a two minute passage of play the ball was given away nine times. Crazy stuff. In the 1990 final between Meath and Cork Martin O Connell under no pressure from inside his own fifty yard line kicked the ball straight to Shay Fahd. It was a woeful mistake given that Cork were down to fourteen men. Fahy scored a point and Cork won by two points. In all sports now maximisation of your possession is king.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5879 - 08/02/2023 19:18:04
The game cant just be left alone as leaving it alone is putting your head in the stand and all sports need to evolve over time.
The seemingly never ending cycle of backwards and sideways handpassing in order to keep possession, especially when a team is winning, is just brutal to watch. But what is utterly soul destroying is when a team, having done 2 or 3 minutes of this sideways back and forth, then proceed to kick the ball 50 yards back to their goalie to "recycle" the ball and begin another sequence of keep ball.
People have suggested the "shot clock" as in basketball where a team has 30 or 60 seconds or whatever to get a shot on goal or else concede possession. The argument against it being that the team out of possession would just put 15 men behind the ball..... but that's practically what's happening now anyway!
But from a practical point of view, that rule may not be feasible. It would need a specific time keeper to monitor the shot clock, which I'm sure could be easily arranged for big intercounty championship games, not so much junior club games out the country!
An easier rule to enforce, and which would make it easier for teams to put pressure on the team in possession, would be the introduction of a rule preventing a team from passing a ball back past the halfway line once they cross into the opponent's half (another basketball rule). They could still try and keep possession all they want, if that's their thing, but at least they wouldn't have the "out" ball of the 50 yard pass back to their goalie. So it would give defending teams an added impetus to win possession back and launch counter-attacks.
ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1216 - 09/02/2023 08:04:03A shot clock isnt the answer but back pass rule be it at 65m/45m or half way would work." You're missing the point badly KillingFields. The game is evolving itself. The vast majority of the rule changes in the recent past have been well intentioned but ill judged. The offensive mark is a case in point. That was followed by the defensive mark which epitomised how ridiculous some of the rule changes were and continue to be. Let the game evolve itself. There has been far too much tinkering with the playing rules. Most certainly you can look at player behaviour and introduce rules to deal with that. One intervention that is urgently needed is in relation to how substitutions are made.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 09/02/2023 11:14:46
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If a legendary poster from "gaelic football country" --- where they'd barely know what a hurley even looks like --- is saying this, then it must be true!
Mind you, I think the entertainment value of hurling has sunk a lot in recent years too, not half as exciting a game as it used to be, not too many that rise beyond the moderately interesting.
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1902 - 09/02/2023 12:08:19
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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "If a legendary poster from "gaelic football country" --- where they'd barely know what a hurley even looks like --- is saying this, then it must be true!
Mind you, I think the entertainment value of hurling has sunk a lot in recent years too, not half as exciting a game as it used to be, not too many that rise beyond the moderately interesting." Oooooooh!!! Fair play PoolSturgeon. Be careful. Hurling people don't respond well to criticism of the game.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 09/02/2023 14:00:09
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Marty Morrissey failed in his job last year when commentating the Ulster final. A commentators job is to make a game sound exciting even when it isn't but all Marty could do was complain about how bad the game was for the neutral.
PattyONeill (Derry) - Posts: 220 - 09/02/2023 14:46:54
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