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Replying To credit_crunch: "Monaghan need Armagh to lose doesnt really matter about Roscommon game as they will have a poorer score difference" We'll soon sort that out.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2005 - 20/03/2023 13:08:26
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I personally don't agree with the current format for promotion/regulation that exists in the league. If two teams finish level on the same points it comes down to the head to head between the two teams. It is a league structure and it should really be the total points difference (scoring) over the entire league campaign.
If team A beats team B by 4 points, they already get two main points for the win, and a + 8 scoring difference. It that not enough for just one match of the league?
Team B could end the campaign having a total scoring difference of + 20 on team A over the entire league. Why is that being ignored when it really counts? (Team A getting promoted or perhaps Team B being regulated)
letsgetgoing (Roscommon) - Posts: 491 - 20/03/2023 13:08:55
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Replying To anotheralias: "If there was ever an argument to abolish the League finals, I think that this year would support it.
Nobody really wants to get to the League final. If Mayo beat Monaghan and Kerry beat Galway ( both very likely outcomes) the League final will between a team with 12 points and a team with 8 points. Mayo have been the best team in the League and deserve the title , but could get caught in a one off game that they may not even want to be playing, but have no choice at this stage.
There are 2 arguments for keeping League finals
1. Gate receipts... At this point with the super 16s etc...I would assume that there is enough opportunity for GAA to gather funds....people only have so much money.
2. Keeping things tight right up to end of League. But I think in reality in terms of League final qualification there is really one significant game next weekend Galway v Kerry. Yes Tyrone , Roscommon have an outside chance if Kerry beat Galway and Tyrone or Ros win by 7 or more . That 7 score difference increases if the Kerry victory deviates from +3.
In terms of relegation its fairly cut and dried too.
Donegal relegated.
Monaghan almost certain to join them unless they beat Mayo AND Tyrone beat Armagh.
There are some score difference permutations here too that could involve a 3 way tie on 6 points but they would involve some bizarre score difference twists that would be very unlikely to favour Monaghan. Any scenario that leads to a 2 way tie on 6 will not favour Monaghan either as they are on the negative end of the head to heads." So other than the fact 5 different teams can still reach the final, and 6 different teams could potentially be relegated, the league is done and dusted?
Bit of a "what have the Romans ever done for us?" about that analysis.
CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1642 - 20/03/2023 13:21:39
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Replying To anotheralias: "If there was ever an argument to abolish the League finals, I think that this year would support it.
Nobody really wants to get to the League final. If Mayo beat Monaghan and Kerry beat Galway ( both very likely outcomes) the League final will between a team with 12 points and a team with 8 points. Mayo have been the best team in the League and deserve the title , but could get caught in a one off game that they may not even want to be playing, but have no choice at this stage.
There are 2 arguments for keeping League finals
1. Gate receipts... At this point with the super 16s etc...I would assume that there is enough opportunity for GAA to gather funds....people only have so much money.
2. Keeping things tight right up to end of League. But I think in reality in terms of League final qualification there is really one significant game next weekend Galway v Kerry. Yes Tyrone , Roscommon have an outside chance if Kerry beat Galway and Tyrone or Ros win by 7 or more . That 7 score difference increases if the Kerry victory deviates from +3.
In terms of relegation its fairly cut and dried too.
Donegal relegated.
Monaghan almost certain to join them unless they beat Mayo AND Tyrone beat Armagh.
There are some score difference permutations here too that could involve a 3 way tie on 6 points but they would involve some bizarre score difference twists that would be very unlikely to favour Monaghan. Any scenario that leads to a 2 way tie on 6 will not favour Monaghan either as they are on the negative end of the head to heads." Should have settled for table toppers wins the title with the championship starting a week after finals this year.
Next year if finals are to be retained then pre season (FBD, McGrath cup etc) must be scrapped and the league starting a week or two earlier and leaving at least a 3 week gap between the league final and championship start.
On relegation i can't see Armagh getting anything out of Omagh and that will leave them on five points. So it will all likely come down to Castlebar and seeing that Mayo have a final the following week they'll likely start with a 2nd string team which Monaghan fighting to stay up should be able to beat.
Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3336 - 20/03/2023 13:58:54
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Replying To letsgetgoing: "I personally don't agree with the current format for promotion/regulation that exists in the league. If two teams finish level on the same points it comes down to the head to head between the two teams. It is a league structure and it should really be the total points difference (scoring) over the entire league campaign.
If team A beats team B by 4 points, they already get two main points for the win, and a + 8 scoring difference. It that not enough for just one match of the league?
Team B could end the campaign having a total scoring difference of + 20 on team A over the entire league. Why is that being ignored when it really counts? (Team A getting promoted or perhaps Team B being regulated)" Not sure if I like scoring diff across all games either - one team can hammer the weakest team and that weakest team gets slightly less hammered by other teams (UEFA addresses this by comparing 'best 2nd place teams' across groups with GD counting against the top 4 only, when determining playoff berths).
Back to your point - would a rugby-style bonus points system for marginal losses (say, no more a goal, 3 pts) as well as for scoring goals (say, 2 in football, 4 in hurling per team), be a better solution?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 20/03/2023 14:28:06
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Replying To Gaa_lover: "Should have settled for table toppers wins the title with the championship starting a week after finals this year.
Next year if finals are to be retained then pre season (FBD, McGrath cup etc) must be scrapped and the league starting a week or two earlier and leaving at least a 3 week gap between the league final and championship start.
On relegation i can't see Armagh getting anything out of Omagh and that will leave them on five points. So it will all likely come down to Castlebar and seeing that Mayo have a final the following week they'll likely start with a 2nd string team which Monaghan fighting to stay up should be able to beat." Everyone seems to be speculating about Mayo's motivation, and when they'll start pussyfooting about. Everyone that is, bar the Mayo squad and management team, that we see performing week in week out lately.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3410 - 20/03/2023 14:38:51
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Would a slight tweak to the NFL be beneficial? - say, Divs 1-2-3-4 of 9-9-9-5 (Div 4 double round)?
Benefits include:
3 current Div 4 teams competing against Div 3 opposition;
2 more Div 3 teams in Div 2; and
1 more Div 2 team in Div 1.
Also, an 8-match schedule allows for an even 4 at home/4 away (and say, Div Finals/Playoffs scrapped).
Or, have Divs 1A-1B-2-3 of 9-9-9-5 instead, including an 18-team Div 1 with two equally-ranked, mixed-quality groups (3 up/down Divs 1/2, 1 up/down Divs 2/3, with Div Finals retained)?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 20/03/2023 15:09:52
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Replying To katser: "Yes Clare are Relegated with limrik who have the worst score difference in the whole competition......even worse than London from Div 4!!" Can't believe Clare went down but you have to applaud Louth. Clare now in Tailteann unless they reach a Munster final ?
MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 769 - 20/03/2023 15:19:59
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Replying To MachaireConnacht: "Can't believe Clare went down but you have to applaud Louth. Clare now in Tailteann unless they reach a Munster final ?" Yeah I believe Clare will be in the Tailteann now unless they make the Munster final now. They should have finished above both Meath & Kildare but shot themselves in the foot in this league.
county man (Limerick) - Posts: 1102 - 20/03/2023 16:08:23
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Replying To MachaireConnacht: "Can't believe Clare went down but you have to applaud Louth. Clare now in Tailteann unless they reach a Munster final ?" We had great opportunities to beat both Kildare & Dublin blew both opportunities its fierce competitive in Div 2
We have a very small pool of players Bar Eire Og in Ennis all the footballers come from West and a few from North Clare
Nobody from Shannon or St Josephs Doora Barefield so Colm Collins has done a superb job.
Having been at a fair few matches and watching Sunday Game this possession game is dementing The top teams are not too bad as they have players of high quality in inside forward lines, the sooner Coaches try to instill in players to have a bit of devil in them and go for the score from 30/40 yards out.
You simply cannot turnover a ball now as it might be 10 minutes to get it back again its a fascinating science in some ways but hard to watch. Under age clus games so much more enjoyable
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 878 - 20/03/2023 16:48:38
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Now altogether Armagh people, Thank you Tyrone for beating Monaghan yesterday and saving your blushes. No rush.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2005 - 20/03/2023 17:24:01
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Replying To omahant: "Would a slight tweak to the NFL be beneficial? - say, Divs 1-2-3-4 of 9-9-9-5 (Div 4 double round)?
Benefits include:
3 current Div 4 teams competing against Div 3 opposition;
2 more Div 3 teams in Div 2; and
1 more Div 2 team in Div 1.
Also, an 8-match schedule allows for an even 4 at home/4 away (and say, Div Finals/Playoffs scrapped).
Or, have Divs 1A-1B-2-3 of 9-9-9-5 instead, including an 18-team Div 1 with two equally-ranked, mixed-quality groups (3 up/down Divs 1/2, 1 up/down Divs 2/3, with Div Finals retained)?" Interesting but I just don't like the idea of an odd number of teams in a league… it could lead to problems on the final weekend with one team having completed their campaign before the others.. Having all teams in the division playing at the same time ( when every fixture counts) adds to the drama..
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1891 - 20/03/2023 18:09:25
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Replying To clooney: "We had great opportunities to beat both Kildare & Dublin blew both opportunities its fierce competitive in Div 2
We have a very small pool of players Bar Eire Og in Ennis all the footballers come from West and a few from North Clare
Nobody from Shannon or St Josephs Doora Barefield so Colm Collins has done a superb job.
Having been at a fair few matches and watching Sunday Game this possession game is dementing The top teams are not too bad as they have players of high quality in inside forward lines, the sooner Coaches try to instill in players to have a bit of devil in them and go for the score from 30/40 yards out.
You simply cannot turnover a ball now as it might be 10 minutes to get it back again its a fascinating science in some ways but hard to watch. Under age clus games so much more enjoyable" Clare's downfall against Dublin - and against Kildare from the small bit I saw - was not having kept attacking Dublin and most likely drawing a free up the field, rather than circling the wagons inside their own 40.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2518 - 20/03/2023 18:23:16
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Replying To county man: "Yeah I believe Clare will be in the Tailteann now unless they make the Munster final now. They should have finished above both Meath & Kildare but shot themselves in the foot in this league." Limerick and Clare with Division 2 experience behind them should be able to give Cork a good rattle. If the Tailteann is there route for the summer, they can have a glory day like Westmeath.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 20/03/2023 18:55:04
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Replying To anotheralias: "If there was ever an argument to abolish the League finals, I think that this year would support it.
Nobody really wants to get to the League final. If Mayo beat Monaghan and Kerry beat Galway ( both very likely outcomes) the League final will between a team with 12 points and a team with 8 points. Mayo have been the best team in the League and deserve the title , but could get caught in a one off game that they may not even want to be playing, but have no choice at this stage.
There are 2 arguments for keeping League finals
1. Gate receipts... At this point with the super 16s etc...I would assume that there is enough opportunity for GAA to gather funds....people only have so much money.
2. Keeping things tight right up to end of League. But I think in reality in terms of League final qualification there is really one significant game next weekend Galway v Kerry. Yes Tyrone , Roscommon have an outside chance if Kerry beat Galway and Tyrone or Ros win by 7 or more . That 7 score difference increases if the Kerry victory deviates from +3.
In terms of relegation its fairly cut and dried too.
Donegal relegated.
Monaghan almost certain to join them unless they beat Mayo AND Tyrone beat Armagh.
There are some score difference permutations here too that could involve a 3 way tie on 6 points but they would involve some bizarre score difference twists that would be very unlikely to favour Monaghan. Any scenario that leads to a 2 way tie on 6 will not favour Monaghan either as they are on the negative end of the head to heads." The Division 1 and 2 finals last year brought a good crowd to Croke Park. It was good experience for Louth and Limerick to play in Croke Park.
There should be a two week gap between the league finals and the championship. The provincial championships could be reduced by a week. The All-Ireland Preliminary Quarter-finals then are debatable.
Provincial Championship shorter schedule:
Weekend 0: Rest weekend after league finals.
Weekend 1: Connacht and Munster quarter-finals. Ulster and Leinster round 1
Weekend 2: Connacht and Munster semi-finals. Ulster and Leinster quarter-finals.
Weekend 3: Ulster and Leinster semi-finals.
Weekend 4: Connacht and Munster finals.
Weekend 5: Ulster and Leinster finals.
New York might have to drop out of the Connacht championship due to the shorter timescale. The highest league ranked Connacht and Munster losing Quarter-finalist could be sent to New York in a challenge cup one off final.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 20/03/2023 19:05:41
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looks like the daily papers are mostly ignoring the lower football divisions this season, no match reports
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2840 - 20/03/2023 19:56:11
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Shaping up for a brilliant championship, obviously hoping Tyrone go the whole way if not I would love to see a Mayo V Galway all Ireland final, two top teams in the country at present, what an occasion that would be.
tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 274 - 20/03/2023 21:18:51
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "Interesting but I just don't like the idea of an odd number of teams in a league… it could lead to problems on the final weekend with one team having completed their campaign before the others.. Having all teams in the division playing at the same time ( when every fixture counts) adds to the drama.." Fair point - but this could be minimized - say, when scheduling, a team not expected to be in the running for the title or relegation (mid-ranked team) could be scheduled for that last round bye.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 21/03/2023 14:07:48
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Replying To tireoghainabu: "Shaping up for a brilliant championship, obviously hoping Tyrone go the whole way if not I would love to see a Mayo V Galway all Ireland final, two top teams in the country at present, what an occasion that would be." As a Corkman, I'd love to see Mayo finally get across the line after all the heartache.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 21/03/2023 14:12:31
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Replying To legendzxix: "Limerick and Clare with Division 2 experience behind them should be able to give Cork a good rattle. If the Tailteann is there route for the summer, they can have a glory day like Westmeath." Clare should give Cork a serious game, but if Cork make it through unfortunately I can't see Limerick getting close to them. They seem to have regressed from last year. The manager issue has only increased the pressure on them too. They could go deep in the Tailteann alright though.
county man (Limerick) - Posts: 1102 - 21/03/2023 14:18:49
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