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All Ireland Club Final, Kilmacud V Glen (Derry)

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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "Ah sure that's Mayo, the media's wee darlings, journalists couldn't say a bad word about them having 16 men on the pitch and gaining an advantage from it by having that 45 retaken, you couldn't make it up, they had a fella throwing his Gps at a free taker kicking a free to win the 2017 All Ireland and not a word about it?? if that had been a player from any Ulster county I'd say they'd still be talking about it and not making him a Sunday game pundit and interviewing him on the Late Late, On this subject though teams in soccer or Gaelic often refer to their supporters as their '12th man' or in Gaelic sports their '16th man' Seems in this case Kilmacud had their '16th man on the pitch!!" Yes if it involved something to do with anything Ulster people wouldn't stop talking about. Because the likes of you wouldn't stop talking about how terrible it is and play thr victim card. oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 24/01/2023 18:23:51 2454049 Link
@Viking - Still waiting for clarification on this Pikeman. Viking, my old buddy, I'm happy to share whatever knowledge or opinion I can here, whenever I can. But I'm not a consultant on call!!!!! :) Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2247 - 24/01/2023 18:29:08 2454050 Link
Replying To Saynothing: " Replying To Pikeman96: "Viking 66 - Is there no rule saying that Football is a 15 a side game? And what is the penalty if that rule is broken? You know something? We might be into really murky waters here. The Rule Book states that a team shall consist of 15 players. And maybe I've overlooking something, but I don't see anything to explicitly state that only the "team" shall be on the field at any given time, or even as simple as "a match shall be played between two teams". Have often thought in the past that a good barrister could have a field day with the GAA Rule Book, and I'm thinking it again now." If Brolly had any balls he would be onto his fellow Derry men guiding them through this mess. If it was a suspended player himself or Logan would be at the forefront." Perhaps the reason he is not doing so is that he knows exactly what the rule says, and what the procedures are. He's not a man who ever allowed logic to get in the way of anything, as yourselves and Seán Cavanagh know only too well :-) BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2556 - 24/01/2023 18:50:41 2454055 Link
Replying To tiobraid: "He probably doesnt even know who was playing. Worst appointment of all time." 100% correct…. Tiobraid… . ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1926 - 24/01/2023 20:33:00 2454067 Link
Replying To cluichethar: "The referee had his hand up stopping the 45 from been taken which the Mayo goalie didn't see. Therefore the referee had no choice but to have it retaken. Of course we all see where this whine is coming from and understand." 76 mins: Dublin 0-13 Mayo 0-13 LEVEL GAME! Super pressure applied by Mayo in the Dublin goalmouth to force Byrne to put the ball out and concede a '45. Hennelly comes up to take it and misses, but he was allowed to kick it again as there was interference with the kick while it was being taken. He smoothly sweeps the ball over from the second attempt. BlastCalyle (Mayo) - Posts: 206 - 24/01/2023 21:14:43 2454071 Link
Replying To lusciousleitrim: "If Glen are so annoyed let them object and quit fooling around the thing? It is dragging on now and if they want a replay please object soon and get it done with as it is very tiresome at this stage. I think Malachy O Rourke has stated that he does not want a replay so doubt the club will go against Malacher" Why should Glen have to appeal? If the GAA would grow a pair instead of waiting on Glen to appeal. It wouldn't be up to Croke's to offer a replay either. Malachy has no right in stating he doesn't want a replay either, he's the Malacher and he's there to manage. Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2013 - 24/01/2023 21:30:36 2454072 Link
Replying To Pikeman96: "Viking 66 - Is there no rule saying that Football is a 15 a side game? And what is the penalty if that rule is broken? You know something? We might be into really murky waters here. The Rule Book states that a team shall consist of 15 players. And maybe I've overlooking something, but I don't see anything to explicitly state that only the "team" shall be on the field at any given time, or even as simple as "a match shall be played between two teams". Have often thought in the past that a good barrister could have a field day with the GAA Rule Book, and I'm thinking it again now." Exactly my point. How come such a big organization can not get the simplest of things right. We see it over and over again. That's how the rules keep getting shredded. By taking it to a lawyer who can see it is flawed in a second. Mullane for a strike that warranted a suspension was told it would be no problem beating it, but he would not have any of it. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 24/01/2023 21:39:35 2454073 Link
Replying To Pikeman96: "Viking 66 - Is there no rule saying that Football is a 15 a side game? And what is the penalty if that rule is broken? You know something? We might be into really murky waters here. The Rule Book states that a team shall consist of 15 players. And maybe I've overlooking something, but I don't see anything to explicitly state that only the "team" shall be on the field at any given time, or even as simple as "a match shall be played between two teams". Have often thought in the past that a good barrister could have a field day with the GAA Rule Book, and I'm thinking it again now." You could maybe, if it was a court of law. But it's not. It's their house. Having had experience of the process a number of years ago, it's their house their rules. And even though we had a hugely strong case (in fact you could argue they made a wrong decision, and knew it), they use the rules to protect itself and you usually get very little purchase, unless you work within those rules. Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 25/01/2023 08:13:28 2454076 Link
Very poor form by Glens objecting. The referees hand was clearly up indicating substitutions were still being made and he tried to take a quick 45 anyway. Ref should have called Glen up on it but didnt. To then object on the back on click bait outrage by Joe Brolly reflects very very badly on Glen. bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4624 - 25/01/2023 08:30:59 2454077 Link
And so it has been left to Watty grahams to do the GAA's dirty work for them.....I hope they remembered to use Irish watermarked paper when submitting their objection!! The silence from the top brass in croke park has been deafening. It will be interesting to hear what the ccccccccccccccccc make of it all. The GAA have let the whole affair descend into farce. totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 916 - 25/01/2023 09:01:55 2454078 Link
Replying To Tirchonaill1: "Ah sure that's Mayo, the media's wee darlings, journalists couldn't say a bad word about them having 16 men on the pitch and gaining an advantage from it by having that 45 retaken, you couldn't make it up, they had a fella throwing his Gps at a free taker kicking a free to win the 2017 All Ireland and not a word about it?? if that had been a player from any Ulster county I'd say they'd still be talking about it and not making him a Sunday game pundit and interviewing him on the Late Late, On this subject though teams in soccer or Gaelic often refer to their supporters as their '12th man' or in Gaelic sports their '16th man' Seems in this case Kilmacud had their '16th man on the pitch!!" Was it a woman from Mayo that ignored you or is there some other reason you are like this? TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7891 - 25/01/2023 09:12:15 2454080 Link
Replying To Pikeman96: "Viking 66 - Is there no rule saying that Football is a 15 a side game? And what is the penalty if that rule is broken? You know something? We might be into really murky waters here. The Rule Book states that a team shall consist of 15 players. And maybe I've overlooking something, but I don't see anything to explicitly state that only the "team" shall be on the field at any given time, or even as simple as "a match shall be played between two teams". Have often thought in the past that a good barrister could have a field day with the GAA Rule Book, and I'm thinking it again now." While the rule book is a mess, you won't get much mileage out of that I'm afraid. Even if the GAA rule book was silent or very vague on the point, it would be a hopeless position to take in any event. At law, disputed texts (rules, statutes, contracts etc) are subject to various common law rules of interpretation, of which there are 4: - The Literal Rule - The Golden Rule - The Mischief Rule - The Purposive Approach The latter two are more relevant to ambiguities in statutes, and not relevant here. However, the first 2 principles apply: Literal rule Default approach: give words their ordinary and natural meaning in context. In theory, if a court or adjudicating panel can apply the literal rule, it should do so. Golden rule If the use of the literal rule produces an absurd result (such as there being no prohibition on having more than 15 players playing on a pitch, despite decades of lived precedent not the contrary), or one that is repugnant to or inconsistent with the rest of the rules, it may be ignored and the golden rule applied. The golden rule simply allows the grammatical and ordinary sense of a word to be modified to avoid the absurdity and inconsistency created by an application of the literal rule, but no farther. However, in any event, the GAA rule book is sufficiently clear on this point: Team is defined as: "(Fifteen Players and maximum Eleven Panel Members - total twenty six)". There is an obvious distinction made between players and panel members. And only players are allowed on the pitch - rules state that: ""Pitch Enclosure" is the area including the Field of Play reserved for players, match officials and team officials." While entire rule-book looks to have grown by accretion instead of the GAA spending the money to have a professional draftsperson (not a solicitor and not a barrister - they can advise on the rules, but the actual drafting thereof should be farmed out to a professional parliamentary draftsperson - its a niche skill - I'm a commercial lawyer, and while most lawyers are adept at picking holes in rules and laws, we have next to no experience of drafting them) do this, the above read together is abundantly clear - only 15 players on the pitch. points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 239 - 25/01/2023 09:57:06 2454088 Link
Replying To Saynothing: " Replying To Pikeman96: "Viking 66 - Is there no rule saying that Football is a 15 a side game? And what is the penalty if that rule is broken? You know something? We might be into really murky waters here. The Rule Book states that a team shall consist of 15 players. And maybe I've overlooking something, but I don't see anything to explicitly state that only the "team" shall be on the field at any given time, or even as simple as "a match shall be played between two teams". Have often thought in the past that a good barrister could have a field day with the GAA Rule Book, and I'm thinking it again now." If Brolly had any balls he would be onto his fellow Derry men guiding them through this mess. If it was a suspended player himself or Logan would be at the forefront." He doesn't like Glen Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 25/01/2023 10:05:00 2454092 Link
Replying To Pikeman96: "@Viking - Still waiting for clarification on this Pikeman. Viking, my old buddy, I'm happy to share whatever knowledge or opinion I can here, whenever I can. But I'm not a consultant on call!!!!! :)" I know Pikeman! But you are very good at the rules side of things!!! Thanks again! Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 25/01/2023 10:06:38 2454093 Link
Replying To bad.monkey: "Very poor form by Glens objecting. The referees hand was clearly up indicating substitutions were still being made and he tried to take a quick 45 anyway. Ref should have called Glen up on it but didnt. To then object on the back on click bait outrage by Joe Brolly reflects very very badly on Glen." They shouldn't have had to object. It's bad form out of the GAA that they did. The referee would have called the play back if you are right. He didn't. He didn't even mention that Crokes had 16 men on the pitch in his report so obviously he didn't know. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 25/01/2023 10:09:16 2454094 Link
Replying To bad.monkey: "Very poor form by Glens objecting. The referees hand was clearly up indicating substitutions were still being made and he tried to take a quick 45 anyway. Ref should have called Glen up on it but didnt. To then object on the back on click bait outrage by Joe Brolly reflects very very badly on Glen." How so, rules are in the game for a reason and if anything it was poor form from the GAA not to have this sorted on Monday night. Glen took a leaf out of Croke's management book and objected. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2013 - 25/01/2023 10:18:43 2454096 Link
I don't think this is a good move by Glen. They had multiple goal chances during the game to win it and didn't take them. The mistake was made by officials that did not ensure all substituted players were off the field before the 45 was taken. All that aside, the 16th man did not interfere with play and Glen would not have won the game. Even if Glen get a replay and win it, the whole thing is tarnished for them now at this stage. Posters on here saying "if the boot was on the other foot" are only speaking hypothetically because it is a Dublin club. Where they're from shouldn't come into it. Let it go and move on. TaytoFoley (Leitrim) - Posts: 83 - 25/01/2023 10:32:18 2454103 Link
Replying To totalrecall: "And so it has been left to Watty grahams to do the GAA's dirty work for them.....I hope they remembered to use Irish watermarked paper when submitting their objection!! The silence from the top brass in croke park has been deafening. It will be interesting to hear what the ccccccccccccccccc make of it all. The GAA have let the whole affair descend into farce." They had to make an objection. It is in the rule. What did you want the "top brass" to say exactly? Do you expect judges to comment on cases before they are even brought to court? Most likely be a replay now, so people will have to revert back to focusing on Shane Walsh, or their sponsor or that Crokes don't refuse to take any more kids onto teams... BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2556 - 25/01/2023 10:33:34 2454104 Link
Replying To Pikeman96: "Viking 66 - Is there no rule saying that Football is a 15 a side game? And what is the penalty if that rule is broken? You know something? We might be into really murky waters here. The Rule Book states that a team shall consist of 15 players. And maybe I've overlooking something, but I don't see anything to explicitly state that only the "team" shall be on the field at any given time, or even as simple as "a match shall be played between two teams". Have often thought in the past that a good barrister could have a field day with the GAA Rule Book, and I'm thinking it again now." Further to this - turns out I was overlooking something major all right! An excerpt from Rule 6.44 from Part 1 of the Rule Book: (b) (i) A team exceeding the number of players permitted under Rule 2.1 Rules of Specification, Playing Rules: (ii) A team exceeding the number of substitutions permitted under Rules 2.4 (i) and (ii) or breaching Rule 2.4 (iv) (b), Rules of Specification, Playing Rules: Penalties: On a proven Objection - Award of Game to the Opposing Team, or Replay, or Fine, depending on the circumstances. On an Inquiry by the Committee-in-Charge - Forfeiture of Game without Award of Game to the Opposing Team, or Replay, or Fine, depending on the circumstances. I'd just been looking in Part 2, because I knew that's where it says a team shall consist of 15 players, and also where rules regarding substitutions are set out. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2247 - 25/01/2023 10:33:39 2454105 Link
At least Glass will be available for the replay he must have been on holidays last sunday breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 454 - 25/01/2023 10:42:16 2454109 Link