National Forum

All Ireland Club Final, Kilmacud V Glen (Derry)

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Replying To clare_sparrow:  "I couldnt give a toss who wins this all ireland (or any garlic football game for that matter) but my major concern is what ever happens will set a precedent that may be used in hurling in the future re the 16th man. Therefore I think it has to be replayed."
This is it. Should everyone now try to have 16 men defending in the dying minutes of a game when they are narrowly winning? If officials notice it good and well but at least try to have the extra man in there.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 793 - 24/01/2023 15:43:31    2454005

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Replying To clare_sparrow:  "I couldnt give a toss who wins this all ireland (or any garlic football game for that matter) but my major concern is what ever happens will set a precedent that may be used in hurling in the future re the 16th man. Therefore I think it has to be replayed."
If u dont give a toss, please refrain from commenting. More bigotry from the hurling community

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 841 - 24/01/2023 15:44:24    2454007

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The GAA have no problem reviewing other incidents and taking action against a player ? Not surprised though. They couldn't make or apply rules for a game of hide and go seek. The Aidan McCarthy fiasko that was never applied the same again and a whole slue of rules started, drooped, never enforced or laced with loop holes that could be exploited by a six year old.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2664 - 24/01/2023 15:50:54    2454009

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Replying To clare_sparrow:  "I couldnt give a toss who wins this all ireland (or any garlic football game for that matter) but my major concern is what ever happens will set a precedent that may be used in hurling in the future re the 16th man. Therefore I think it has to be replayed."
garlic football is a terrible game alright...gaelic football on the other hand is enjoyable and watched by millions...

It's a terrible end to a great competition. Whatever happens, it's going to be unsatisfactory.

rcarragh (Dublin) - Posts: 305 - 24/01/2023 15:58:23    2454010

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The GAA have no problem reviewing other incidents and taking action against a player ? Not surprised though. They couldn't make or apply rules for a game of hide and go seek. The Aidan McCarthy fiasko that was never applied the same again and a whole slue of rules started, drooped, never enforced or laced with loop holes that could be exploited by a six year old.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2664 - 24/01/2023 16:01:52    2454013

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I know a steward in Parnell Park who was thinking it was a time wasting tactic which backfired completely.
Did he think that by going back there, it'd waste another minute till they got him off the pitch?
Well, if that was the plan, its a lesson to be careful how you waste time.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1136 - 24/01/2023 16:07:38    2454014

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I dont understand how the GAA can revisit an incident highlighted by the sunday game (a bad tackle for example) yet they dont revisit something like this. Pure cop out.
Unfortunately I missed the game but it seems this is a major mess and GAA are making it worse. Its not too di-similar to the 98 All Ireland hurling semi final where an error was made.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 24/01/2023 16:11:19    2454015

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "I'm hoping glen lodge an objection..this will force the Gaa to make a bloody decision..not a word from Larry mc carthy on the matter..he's suppose to be the top man of organization..the Gaa havnt been slow in putting up prices for people going to league matches,but can't make a decision on this..I have absolutely nothing against crokes but rules are rules.."
He probably doesnt even know who was playing. Worst appointment of all time.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 24/01/2023 16:12:09    2454016

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Replying To clare_sparrow:  "I couldnt give a toss who wins this all ireland (or any garlic football game for that matter) but my major concern is what ever happens will set a precedent that may be used in hurling in the future re the 16th man. Therefore I think it has to be replayed."
Another clown who thinks hurling is the only game on earth. Stick to your hurling so. I think we are blessed to have two great games that are of great sporting and social value to this country and to Irish people living abroad. Keep your antipathy to Gaelic football to yourself.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 24/01/2023 16:13:03    2454017

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Replying To sligo joe:  "When the referee realised that the substituted player had not gone off, what should he have done, the game was still on at that stage, what rule should the ref follow.
In 2021 the referee ordered a missed Mayo 45 to be retaken when he realised "Mayo" had 16 players on the field even though the offending Mayoman was almost off and a long way behind the play, this decision cost Dublin a place in the final and there was SFA from the sports journalists about it."
Ah sure that's Mayo, the media's wee darlings, journalists couldn't say a bad word about them having 16 men on the pitch and gaining an advantage from it by having that 45 retaken, you couldn't make it up,
they had a fella throwing his Gps at a free taker kicking a free to win the 2017 All Ireland and not a word about it?? if that had been a player from any Ulster county I'd say they'd still be talking about it and not making him a Sunday game pundit and interviewing him on the Late Late,
On this subject though teams in soccer or Gaelic often refer to their supporters as their '12th man' or in Gaelic sports their '16th man'
Seems in this case Kilmacud had their '16th man on the pitch!!

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2756 - 24/01/2023 16:38:03    2454022

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Viking 66 - Is there no rule saying that Football is a 15 a side game? And what is the penalty if that rule is broken?


You know something? We might be into really murky waters here. The Rule Book states that a team shall consist of 15 players. And maybe I've overlooking something, but I don't see anything to explicitly state that only the "team" shall be on the field at any given time, or even as simple as "a match shall be played between two teams".

Have often thought in the past that a good barrister could have a field day with the GAA Rule Book, and I'm thinking it again now.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2251 - 24/01/2023 16:46:16    2454026

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I reckon it's about time somebody addressed the accusations that GAA top brass are shirking responsibility by saying it's up to Glen to lodge an appeal.

That's actually the only way that the Rule Book allows for such an appeal to be made, or any action to be taken:
An Objection to the award of a Game may be made on behalf of a Team that participated in the Game concerned by the relevant Secretary. An objection may not be made otherwise by a member or any third party.

Rather than shirking responsibility, they're actually acting properly by pointing out to Glen that the only way the Rule Book allows action to be taken is if they (Glen) lodge an appeal themselves.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the Rule Book should allow for action to be initiated by others (such as CCC) in such clearcut cases. But right now, it doesn't. And the top brass can't act outside of the Rule Book."
Still waiting for clarification on this Pikeman. I wasnt asking about the rules pertaining to "An objection to the award of a game". But rather what is the exact rule pertaining to how many players should a football team have and what are the penalties for breaking that rule?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12008 - 24/01/2023 16:53:51    2454028

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Viking 66 - Is there no rule saying that Football is a 15 a side game? And what is the penalty if that rule is broken?


You know something? We might be into really murky waters here. The Rule Book states that a team shall consist of 15 players. And maybe I've overlooking something, but I don't see anything to explicitly state that only the "team" shall be on the field at any given time, or even as simple as "a match shall be played between two teams".

Have often thought in the past that a good barrister could have a field day with the GAA Rule Book, and I'm thinking it again now."
If Brolly had any balls he would be onto his fellow Derry men guiding them through this mess. If it was a suspended player himself or Logan would be at the forefront.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2016 - 24/01/2023 17:06:05    2454033

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Ah sure that's Mayo, the media's wee darlings, journalists couldn't say a bad word about them having 16 men on the pitch and gaining an advantage from it by having that 45 retaken, you couldn't make it up,
they had a fella throwing his Gps at a free taker kicking a free to win the 2017 All Ireland and not a word about it?? if that had been a player from any Ulster county I'd say they'd still be talking about it and not making him a Sunday game pundit and interviewing him on the Late Late,
On this subject though teams in soccer or Gaelic often refer to their supporters as their '12th man' or in Gaelic sports their '16th man'
Seems in this case Kilmacud had their '16th man on the pitch!!"
The referee had his hand up stopping the 45 from been taken which the Mayo goalie didn't see. Therefore the referee had no choice but to have it retaken. Of course we all see where this whine is coming from and understand.

cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 454 - 24/01/2023 17:09:26    2454035

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Replying To lusciousleitrim:  "If Glen are so annoyed let them object and quit fooling around the thing? It is dragging on now and if they want a replay please object soon and get it done with as it is very tiresome at this stage. I think Malachy O Rourke has stated that he does not want a replay so doubt the club will go against Malacher"
2 days is hardly dragging on. They have until tomorrow to make a decision anyway.

Croke Park officials and Kilmacud makes the mistake . It shouldn't have all the ones on Glenn appealing. Gas should have just made right call and replay

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 24/01/2023 17:21:53    2454038

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Replying To cluichethar:  "The referee had his hand up stopping the 45 from been taken which the Mayo goalie didn't see. Therefore the referee had no choice but to have it retaken. Of course we all see where this whine is coming from and understand."
That's revisionism regarding the 45, the ref had just directed the Dublin defenders to move back and then waved play on, it was after consulting with the linesman who had his flag raised that the ref called for a second chance for Hennelly.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 684 - 24/01/2023 17:27:54    2454039

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Viking 66 - Is there no rule saying that Football is a 15 a side game? And what is the penalty if that rule is broken?


You know something? We might be into really murky waters here. The Rule Book states that a team shall consist of 15 players. And maybe I've overlooking something, but I don't see anything to explicitly state that only the "team" shall be on the field at any given time, or even as simple as "a match shall be played between two teams".

Have often thought in the past that a good barrister could have a field day with the GAA Rule Book, and I'm thinking it again now."
Thanks Pikeman! I posted the other post only a few minutes ago!!! So basically any team could sneak 16 or 17 or however many players onto the pitch without sanction once the officials don't report it and the opponents don't appeal?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12008 - 24/01/2023 17:37:19    2454040

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Replying To cluichethar:  "The referee had his hand up stopping the 45 from been taken which the Mayo goalie didn't see. Therefore the referee had no choice but to have it retaken. Of course we all see where this whine is coming from and understand."
If the integrity of all GAA competitive games is to be preserved then a replay is necessary.
This is not the first time Croke Park have reneged on their duty to show leadership and uphold the rules of the Association. It's a disgrace that Watty Grahams are being put in this position.

LilywhiteGael (Kildare) - Posts: 93 - 24/01/2023 18:12:41    2454045

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Imagine if Argentina won world cup with 12 played on, defending?
Replay the game in Derry already, there is no debate.

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1197 - 24/01/2023 18:19:21    2454047

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Replying To tiobraid:  "I dont understand how the GAA can revisit an incident highlighted by the sunday game (a bad tackle for example) yet they dont revisit something like this. Pure cop out.
Unfortunately I missed the game but it seems this is a major mess and GAA are making it worse. Its not too di-similar to the 98 All Ireland hurling semi final where an error was made."
They will revisit it. If Glen appeal there will be a replay.

The difference between them revisiting someone getting a sly dig and this, is that the first concerns a disciplinary issue missed by officials. There is no procedure for the lad who ships the sly dig making any sort of appeal to GAA, Some of course have gone to the civil courts but that's another issue.

Sunday concerns a breach of a rule that specifically refers to the team at the sharp end having the right to appeal, It's not rocket science, I assume they will, and that there will be a replay.

There may well be a case for changing the rule at Congress to allow for action to be taken regardless of whether there is an objection.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2577 - 24/01/2023 18:20:39    2454048

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