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Withdrawals Sound Death Knell For O'Byrne Cup?

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I m also of the opinion Louth should have been removed from the competition. "Could nt field a team does nt wash". As Fionn stated in an earlier post not many players would turn down the chance to play for their county. Would Louth have played if they had nt already qualified? Who knows but I think they are wrong here. I lfor one like these pre season competitions and it's a great chance to unearth new talent. With the league having become such a big competition now managers don't give as many newcomers a chance in the league as they did years ago. That's why the likes of the OBC is good. The Gaa and the Leinster Council were very soft on Louth here. Maybe there is guilt after 2010 Leinster final but it's setting a bad precedent.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 13/01/2023 19:02:33    2452364

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Replying To Fionn:  "I hope Longford win it now and send Louth packing with their tails between their legs..."
So it's reduced to just the final. Yes, Longford for me. Sneaky oul carry on from your man who i normally have great time for.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2579 - 13/01/2023 19:08:58    2452365

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In my opinion the only official GAA competitions that should be on in January should be the various club All-Ireland championships and the Sigerson/Fitzgibbon Cups. Start the league first weekend in February, let counties prepare for it how they see fit. Players are flogged enough as it is.

beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1421 - 13/01/2023 19:32:36    2452368

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Replying To beano:  "In my opinion the only official GAA competitions that should be on in January should be the various club All-Ireland championships and the Sigerson/Fitzgibbon Cups. Start the league first weekend in February, let counties prepare for it how they see fit. Players are flogged enough as it is."
Yeah would agree with that. same with December. only the bare minimum of games should be on then. Have some form of an off season where there isnt any games. all sports need one. helps everyone in long and short term with a properly defined off season

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3511 - 13/01/2023 21:45:03    2452375

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I m also of the opinion Louth should have been removed from the competition. "Could nt field a team does nt wash". As Fionn stated in an earlier post not many players would turn down the chance to play for their county. Would Louth have played if they had nt already qualified? Who knows but I think they are wrong here. I lfor one like these pre season competitions and it's a great chance to unearth new talent. With the league having become such a big competition now managers don't give as many newcomers a chance in the league as they did years ago. That's why the likes of the OBC is good. The Gaa and the Leinster Council were very soft on Louth here. Maybe there is guilt after 2010 Leinster final but it's setting a bad precedent."
There is nothing that the Leinster council can do. They broke no rules.
Maybe now the Leinster Council will have a rethink on how they run this competition

B&G (Longford) - Posts: 276 - 13/01/2023 21:52:24    2452377

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Shane Roche's (Wexford) interview on this is spot on.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 14/01/2023 13:55:59    2452402

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all the warm-up tournaments should be "knock-out" not group. Counties could opt out before a ball is thrown in
FBD in west of Ireland is a great model

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1197 - 14/01/2023 14:36:43    2452405

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Replying To beano:  "In my opinion the only official GAA competitions that should be on in January should be the various club All-Ireland championships and the Sigerson/Fitzgibbon Cups. Start the league first weekend in February, let counties prepare for it how they see fit. Players are flogged enough as it is."
So what do you suggest? Teams just train before the league? As much as people might like to say otherwise the "flogging " of players has nothing to do with the amount of games it's the amount of training being done.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 14/01/2023 14:52:32    2452410

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Ulster and Munster have gone for groups of 3. Ulster have 3 group winners and best runner-up in semi-finals. Munster has group winners in the final. Leinster could go with 3 groups of 3. The remaining can be a group of 2 teams playing each other twice. 4 group winners into the semi-finals. All teams guaranteed 2 games.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7869 - 15/01/2023 09:01:19    2452470

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Replying To oneoff:  "So what do you suggest? Teams just train before the league? As much as people might like to say otherwise the "flogging " of players has nothing to do with the amount of games it's the amount of training being done."
teams are already playing loads of friendlies.. teams dont just play in these provincial competitions ahead of the league.
the training is the issue with pllayer burnout but you dont need to have a knock out cup to play in january. just leave it as friendlies

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3511 - 15/01/2023 17:29:17    2452557

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Replying To KillingFields:  "teams are already playing loads of friendlies.. teams dont just play in these provincial competitions ahead of the league.
the training is the issue with pllayer burnout but you dont need to have a knock out cup to play in january. just leave it as friendlies"
Again what's the difference? You keep saying this bur never actually give an answer.

What's the difference in playing for example 3 O Byrne games and what you suggest playing 3 challenge games?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 15/01/2023 20:23:45    2452612

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Replying To oneoff:  "Again what's the difference? You keep saying this bur never actually give an answer.

What's the difference in playing for example 3 O Byrne games and what you suggest playing 3 challenge games?"
You dont need to play a competition in pre season. every single team will be playing multiple games to prepare for the o byrne cup
if the o byrne cup etc were the complete pre season fixtures so many say they are then why do teams play so many other games to prep for the season before the o byrne cup etc starts?
Its stupid having a knock out cup for a pre season tournament.
id hate that if a coach. far easier to plan things if you just have 3 friendlies. you pick the dates etc nothing more nothing less.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3511 - 15/01/2023 20:33:55    2452619

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Replying To oneoff:  "Again what's the difference? You keep saying this bur never actually give an answer.

What's the difference in playing for example 3 O Byrne games and what you suggest playing 3 challenge games?"
Because its a knock out competition. teams can prepare far better. do own thing far easier and better without competitions in pre season.
why do you need to have a cup/league for the sake of it in pre season. Remove the leagues and have teams
Its stupid in pre season having a knockout cup. the number of games in pre season played shouldnt be determined by how many games you win or lose which is the case right now with having competitions.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3511 - 15/01/2023 20:48:51    2452623

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Replying To KillingFields:  "You dont need to play a competition in pre season. every single team will be playing multiple games to prepare for the o byrne cup
if the o byrne cup etc were the complete pre season fixtures so many say they are then why do teams play so many other games to prep for the season before the o byrne cup etc starts?
Its stupid having a knock out cup for a pre season tournament.
id hate that if a coach. far easier to plan things if you just have 3 friendlies. you pick the dates etc nothing more nothing less."
As always you still won't actually answer the question.

What other games are teams playing? This is another thing you keep saying.

The draws for pre season competitions are made weeks before they start. How exactly would a manager not be able to plan ahead?

It's a very simple question. What's the difference between playing 3 pre season completions games and playing 3 challenge games? Maybe give an actual answer this time.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 15/01/2023 20:56:51    2452628

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Replying To oneoff:  "As always you still won't actually answer the question.

What other games are teams playing? This is another thing you keep saying.

The draws for pre season competitions are made weeks before they start. How exactly would a manager not be able to plan ahead?

It's a very simple question. What's the difference between playing 3 pre season completions games and playing 3 challenge games? Maybe give an actual answer this time."
The 3 pre season games will have a crowd at them. There were 3000 at our Walsh Cup game in Birr. There are 12000 odd tickets sold for our game against Kilkenny this weekend coming. And it's in Wexford Park. Challenge games are usually just at smaller club games and only have relatives at them if that. They are more like real competitive games in build up etc.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12023 - 16/01/2023 07:49:20    2452639

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Replying To oneoff:  "As always you still won't actually answer the question.

What other games are teams playing? This is another thing you keep saying.

The draws for pre season competitions are made weeks before they start. How exactly would a manager not be able to plan ahead?

It's a very simple question. What's the difference between playing 3 pre season completions games and playing 3 challenge games? Maybe give an actual answer this time."
"What's the difference between playing 3 pre season completions games and playing 3 challenge games? Maybe give an actual answer this time."

If you are playing challenge games you can pick your opponents, You can play college teams that are getting ready for Sigerson. This gives the manager more of a chance to try new players.

If you have a few bad loses in pre-season games it can pile on the pressure for the league. Donegal is a great example, they lost both games in McKenna Cup. I'm sure they gave a few lads debuts like every county. The pressure is already on them now and if they start bad in the league its only downhill from there. I'm sure the manager would have liked to have one knockout game in the McKenna Cup and if they lose that they could have played Sligo IT and Letterkenny IT in Challenge games to allow the manager look at new players.

Temple56 (Westmeath) - Posts: 396 - 16/01/2023 10:33:38    2452655

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Replying To Temple56:  ""What's the difference between playing 3 pre season completions games and playing 3 challenge games? Maybe give an actual answer this time."

If you are playing challenge games you can pick your opponents, You can play college teams that are getting ready for Sigerson. This gives the manager more of a chance to try new players.

If you have a few bad loses in pre-season games it can pile on the pressure for the league. Donegal is a great example, they lost both games in McKenna Cup. I'm sure they gave a few lads debuts like every county. The pressure is already on them now and if they start bad in the league its only downhill from there. I'm sure the manager would have liked to have one knockout game in the McKenna Cup and if they lose that they could have played Sligo IT and Letterkenny IT in Challenge games to allow the manager look at new players."
As I said already. The draws are made weeks in advance so managers know who'll they be playing.

How is losing challenge matches going to put less pressure on them coming into the league?

College teams played in them for a few years until county managers got the hump about them being in them.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 16/01/2023 13:42:31    2452707

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Replying To oneoff:  "As always you still won't actually answer the question.

What other games are teams playing? This is another thing you keep saying.

The draws for pre season competitions are made weeks before they start. How exactly would a manager not be able to plan ahead?

It's a very simple question. What's the difference between playing 3 pre season completions games and playing 3 challenge games? Maybe give an actual answer this time."
Teams are playing friendlies very regularly. they far from just play these competitions and on several occasions counties have pullled ouf of these tournaments to do their own thing.
You dont see teams in many other sports playing a knock out cup for a pre season tournament. they simply play as many friendlies as they like.
Playing a tournament where you dont know how many games you will be playing isnt great preparation/

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3511 - 16/01/2023 18:10:15    2452763

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Replying To oneoff:  "As always you still won't actually answer the question.

What other games are teams playing? This is another thing you keep saying.

The draws for pre season competitions are made weeks before they start. How exactly would a manager not be able to plan ahead?

It's a very simple question. What's the difference between playing 3 pre season completions games and playing 3 challenge games? Maybe give an actual answer this time."
Counties play loads of friendlies that are not part of any competition.
They dont just rock up to the mcgrath cup or whatever as a first game of the year. they will have played behind closed doors games against a wide range of sides.
its far easier in pre season if you know exactly what you are doing for the month. to plan training loads if you dont have to think if you win on a sunday whether you are playing the next week or not.
the difference between friendlies alone and being part of a competition is you know months ahead exactly how many games you will play
your plans are not determined or changed by the result of a game.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3511 - 16/01/2023 19:15:15    2452771

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Counties play loads of friendlies that are not part of any competition.
They dont just rock up to the mcgrath cup or whatever as a first game of the year. they will have played behind closed doors games against a wide range of sides.
its far easier in pre season if you know exactly what you are doing for the month. to plan training loads if you dont have to think if you win on a sunday whether you are playing the next week or not.
the difference between friendlies alone and being part of a competition is you know months ahead exactly how many games you will play
your plans are not determined or changed by the result of a game."
The difference also involves the paying public, the supporters. You won't get people to attend random challenge games, but you will get people out for an official competition, especially with silverware at the end of it and a history going back to 1954. Worth bearing in mind that it is a spectator sport after all. Also worth bearing in mind the purpose of some of these competitions which is to support an injury fund via gate receipts.

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 473 - 17/01/2023 09:59:03    2452799

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