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Wexford Club Championships

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See the GAA task force are in favour of putting back underage to U18 - U16 and so on with a two different options. The first being that a player aged 18 wont join the adult set up until March so that it wont interfere with schools teams. The second option is a ban on 18 year old playing adult until they are finished playing minor. Of course the third option is to stay the same.

I hope that they do go back to U18 but it seems that counties can decide themselves on what way to implement. My own preference is that they dont play adult until they are finished minor as to be honest I have looked at alot of 17 to 18 year olds play adult and very few make the step up in their first season, only the exceptional ones.

I know there will be a vast amount of people against this, citing playing numbers etc but its only a matter of waiting an extra year before they are more physically able to play at a higher grade. Also holding off until 2024 gives clubs a chance to plan ahead as such.

Be interesting to see what way the county board go.

alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 316 - 30/11/2022 12:01:39    2449135

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Our own players were absolutely 100% in favour of it, so that's the way our club voted. However, my personal view remains that it's only asking for trouble."
Of course there will be uproar if it actually happens and big calls for the final to be delayed because its unfair on the people who backed it, to then live with it.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1512 - 30/11/2022 12:14:50    2449138

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Replying To alwaysasub:  "See the GAA task force are in favour of putting back underage to U18 - U16 and so on with a two different options. The first being that a player aged 18 wont join the adult set up until March so that it wont interfere with schools teams. The second option is a ban on 18 year old playing adult until they are finished playing minor. Of course the third option is to stay the same.

I hope that they do go back to U18 but it seems that counties can decide themselves on what way to implement. My own preference is that they dont play adult until they are finished minor as to be honest I have looked at alot of 17 to 18 year olds play adult and very few make the step up in their first season, only the exceptional ones.

I know there will be a vast amount of people against this, citing playing numbers etc but its only a matter of waiting an extra year before they are more physically able to play at a higher grade. Also holding off until 2024 gives clubs a chance to plan ahead as such.

Be interesting to see what way the county board go."
I'm 100% in agreement with you. And u20 should go back to u21. Are there really any clubs that won't be able to field an adult team at all with no u18s in it? I know we had one lad that age playing on our adult teams this year. He's a good player but if he wasn't able to play we would still have fielded teams in the football and hurling.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6661 - 30/11/2022 13:16:06    2449146

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Replying To Viking66:  "I'm 100% in agreement with you. And u20 should go back to u21. Are there really any clubs that won't be able to field an adult team at all with no u18s in it? I know we had one lad that age playing on our adult teams this year. He's a good player but if he wasn't able to play we would still have fielded teams in the football and hurling."
I'm also in 100% agreement. As I've said here before, to go back to a situation where minor championships could be held up because a small number of players are also involved in adult competition - or vice versa, where adult could even be held up on account of minor fixtures - would be a massive backward step.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1281 - 30/11/2022 13:43:36    2449152

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Replying To alwaysasub:  "See the GAA task force are in favour of putting back underage to U18 - U16 and so on with a two different options. The first being that a player aged 18 wont join the adult set up until March so that it wont interfere with schools teams. The second option is a ban on 18 year old playing adult until they are finished playing minor. Of course the third option is to stay the same.

I hope that they do go back to U18 but it seems that counties can decide themselves on what way to implement. My own preference is that they dont play adult until they are finished minor as to be honest I have looked at alot of 17 to 18 year olds play adult and very few make the step up in their first season, only the exceptional ones.

I know there will be a vast amount of people against this, citing playing numbers etc but its only a matter of waiting an extra year before they are more physically able to play at a higher grade. Also holding off until 2024 gives clubs a chance to plan ahead as such.

Be interesting to see what way the county board go."
The first option is absolutely ridiculous

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 464 - 30/11/2022 14:39:28    2449160

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Replying To alwaysasub:  "See the GAA task force are in favour of putting back underage to U18 - U16 and so on with a two different options. The first being that a player aged 18 wont join the adult set up until March so that it wont interfere with schools teams. The second option is a ban on 18 year old playing adult until they are finished playing minor. Of course the third option is to stay the same.

I hope that they do go back to U18 but it seems that counties can decide themselves on what way to implement. My own preference is that they dont play adult until they are finished minor as to be honest I have looked at alot of 17 to 18 year olds play adult and very few make the step up in their first season, only the exceptional ones.

I know there will be a vast amount of people against this, citing playing numbers etc but its only a matter of waiting an extra year before they are more physically able to play at a higher grade. Also holding off until 2024 gives clubs a chance to plan ahead as such.

Be interesting to see what way the county board go."
What would clubs need to plan ahead for? all grades just stay same as this year like

lefty (Wexford) - Posts: 144 - 30/11/2022 15:32:38    2449167

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Replying To lefty:  "What would clubs need to plan ahead for? all grades just stay same as this year like"
I would imagine that the U17s are already expecting to play Adult next year with some smaller clubs expecting them to be playing with them.

Your point of course is valid but thats the reason I imagine.

alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 316 - 30/11/2022 15:42:58    2449168

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Replying To ElGranSenor:  "From what I can gather, five Oulart players were suspended but only Naomh Barróg player was suspended, Oulart were given a €3,000 fine whereas Naomh Barróg were given a €2,000 fine, and Oulart were barred out of the Leinster Championship for two years whereas Naomh Barróg were allowed to play this weekend albeit they had to give up home advantage.

For me, even though I wasn't at the game, this seems a bit one-sided. Oulart are seemingly appealing the players's suspensions on the basis that worse stuff went out on the field. Allegedly, the whole melee was started off by a Naomh Barróg player who came out throwing punches; he was then punched and knocked out by one of the suspended Oulart players. However, this Naomh Barróg player was not suspended. In addition, I was told that the Naomh Barróg #8 was doing awful stuff in the melee but other Naomh Barróg players dragged him away from the melee and hence away from being caught on camera; he has not been suspended.

Again, not condoning what Oulart did and admitting that the powers that be can only go off video but the punishment meted out so far seems very one-sided."
I know an official from Craobh Chiarain who was there and mentioned the Barrog #8 too. In addition, he told me that an Oulart supporter was trying to stop a Barrog supporter going on to the pitch and ended up on the receiving end of a few digs and then the Oulart supporters had to join in.
A bit like any schemozzle most of us were in back in our prime, you sometimes end up in a situation you did not start but had to dig in.
The official also said that Barrog were trying to bring Oulart into an ash session and the referee let 2-3 very late and dirty tackles go without even a free in the lead up to this incident.
I can not understand how the GAA came up with the fines, and suspended Oulart for 2 years but Barrog could play that weekend? Both were responsible and equally so so the punishments should be equal.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 476 - 01/12/2022 21:23:37    2449294

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "I know an official from Craobh Chiarain who was there and mentioned the Barrog #8 too. In addition, he told me that an Oulart supporter was trying to stop a Barrog supporter going on to the pitch and ended up on the receiving end of a few digs and then the Oulart supporters had to join in.
A bit like any schemozzle most of us were in back in our prime, you sometimes end up in a situation you did not start but had to dig in.
The official also said that Barrog were trying to bring Oulart into an ash session and the referee let 2-3 very late and dirty tackles go without even a free in the lead up to this incident.
I can not understand how the GAA came up with the fines, and suspended Oulart for 2 years but Barrog could play that weekend? Both were responsible and equally so so the punishments should be equal."
I was there and yes the barrog players were hitting high and late. I'm not sure of the number of the player but definitely in the incident it was definitely was high and late. In the first half a lot of stuff went on in front of the naomh barrog bench including where an oulart player had to change his helmet. They got away with a lot. There was a former inter county linesman … can't think of his name and he wouldn't do anything but would complain when an oulart selector move out of his rectangle it was mad stuff really

Wexfordgaa (Wexford) - Posts: 127 - 02/12/2022 09:45:24    2449301

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Replying To Wexfordgaa:  "I was there and yes the barrog players were hitting high and late. I'm not sure of the number of the player but definitely in the incident it was definitely was high and late. In the first half a lot of stuff went on in front of the naomh barrog bench including where an oulart player had to change his helmet. They got away with a lot. There was a former inter county linesman … can't think of his name and he wouldn't do anything but would complain when an oulart selector move out of his rectangle it was mad stuff really"
Main item from the Wexford convention last night was the change back to even age grading for players and decoupling for adults. Got in by a massive majority. The clubs voted for this. That should say it all.

james2011 (Wexford) - Posts: 581 - 13/12/2022 09:09:01    2450258

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Replying To james2011:  "Main item from the Wexford convention last night was the change back to even age grading for players and decoupling for adults. Got in by a massive majority. The clubs voted for this. That should say it all."
There was some opposition to decoupling last night, most notably from Crossabeg/Ballymurn, but I reckon decoupling is absolutely essential to allow minor championships to run smoothly.

C/B would say "play the minor championships midweek", but part of the problem with U19 hurling this year was adult team managers not wanting to release young players for midweek matches. That wouldn't change just because it was an U18 game in question rather than U19.

Also, there are only about eleven or (at a push) twelve midweek dates available between late June (after Leaving Cert) and early to mid-September, in which to play minor. That's not enough to play both minor championships with the same number of games as in recent years. So either you're cutting back on the minors who don't also play adult grades (i.e. the vast majority of them), or else you'd be back to the bad old days of the closing stages of the minor grades being held up by the closing stages of the adult competitions.

Back in 2015, I was involved with a minor team myself that reached a county final. We played our final group game before the middle of August. We had to wait until middle of September for a quarter-final, end of October for a semi-final, and middle of November for the final. Does anybody really want a return to that sort of thing?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1281 - 13/12/2022 13:13:21    2450303

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "There was some opposition to decoupling last night, most notably from Crossabeg/Ballymurn, but I reckon decoupling is absolutely essential to allow minor championships to run smoothly.

C/B would say "play the minor championships midweek", but part of the problem with U19 hurling this year was adult team managers not wanting to release young players for midweek matches. That wouldn't change just because it was an U18 game in question rather than U19.

Also, there are only about eleven or (at a push) twelve midweek dates available between late June (after Leaving Cert) and early to mid-September, in which to play minor. That's not enough to play both minor championships with the same number of games as in recent years. So either you're cutting back on the minors who don't also play adult grades (i.e. the vast majority of them), or else you'd be back to the bad old days of the closing stages of the minor grades being held up by the closing stages of the adult competitions.

Back in 2015, I was involved with a minor team myself that reached a county final. We played our final group game before the middle of August. We had to wait until middle of September for a quarter-final, end of October for a semi-final, and middle of November for the final. Does anybody really want a return to that sort of thing?"
I know the 2 of us discussed it previously and there's alot of nuance to it but I wouldn't like decoupling at all for u18, I think its a killer for small rural clubs who wouldn't have huge numbers, in the most extreme scenario a lad whose birthday falls in January he'll be 19 years and 6 or 7 months before his makes his championship debut for his club, I just think that's insane, Fethard and Horeswood both had significant contributions from lads at that age in their Leinster Finals, Fethard I think had 3 or 4 u18s starting against Dunshaughlin while I think Cathal Parker who got the Horeswood goal is just out of minor. Fethard might not have even won the Wexford championship this year if that rule existed,

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 431 - 13/12/2022 14:04:14    2450312

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "There was some opposition to decoupling last night, most notably from Crossabeg/Ballymurn, but I reckon decoupling is absolutely essential to allow minor championships to run smoothly.

C/B would say "play the minor championships midweek", but part of the problem with U19 hurling this year was adult team managers not wanting to release young players for midweek matches. That wouldn't change just because it was an U18 game in question rather than U19.

Also, there are only about eleven or (at a push) twelve midweek dates available between late June (after Leaving Cert) and early to mid-September, in which to play minor. That's not enough to play both minor championships with the same number of games as in recent years. So either you're cutting back on the minors who don't also play adult grades (i.e. the vast majority of them), or else you'd be back to the bad old days of the closing stages of the minor grades being held up by the closing stages of the adult competitions.

Back in 2015, I was involved with a minor team myself that reached a county final. We played our final group game before the middle of August. We had to wait until middle of September for a quarter-final, end of October for a semi-final, and middle of November for the final. Does anybody really want a return to that sort of thing?"
Just to add to my previous post this being brought in along with alot of lads travelling post Covid lockdowns could put some clubs under pressure next year, no surprise that Crossabeg were so vocal as they've been hit as hard as anyone in terms of lads heading away.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 431 - 13/12/2022 16:16:45    2450332

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "I know the 2 of us discussed it previously and there's alot of nuance to it but I wouldn't like decoupling at all for u18, I think its a killer for small rural clubs who wouldn't have huge numbers, in the most extreme scenario a lad whose birthday falls in January he'll be 19 years and 6 or 7 months before his makes his championship debut for his club, I just think that's insane, Fethard and Horeswood both had significant contributions from lads at that age in their Leinster Finals, Fethard I think had 3 or 4 u18s starting against Dunshaughlin while I think Cathal Parker who got the Horeswood goal is just out of minor. Fethard might not have even won the Wexford championship this year if that rule existed,"
I can see your point of view and I can't argue with concrete examples, but still, I'd urge you and all who feel the same to think of the bigger picture and the greater good where the vast majority of U18 players are concerned.

Let's say we had an U18 championship, with no decoupling, and Fethard had even just one U18 lad playing with them during their run through to the Leinster Final.

It would mean their minor team couldn't have fielded since about the middle of September, when evenings got too short to play midweek, and some 18-year-olds from Fethard and other clubs headed off to start college.

So, you'd have the entire minor championship held up until now. Even if it had reached the semi-final stage, with let's say 20 players per squad for each of the teams left in it, that would be 79 minor players left sitting around waiting for a fixture, all because of one lad who happens to also tog out with their adult team.

This is the reality of it. Be careful what you wish for.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1281 - 13/12/2022 20:33:47    2450358

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "Just to add to my previous post this being brought in along with alot of lads travelling post Covid lockdowns could put some clubs under pressure next year, no surprise that Crossabeg were so vocal as they've been hit as hard as anyone in terms of lads heading away."
Think also while they were lucky when they had that really good bunch together, they have had very little for the past few years. Lot of clubs will be in a similar situation for next year but after that players will start to come through again.

alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 316 - 13/12/2022 21:05:38    2450360

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I can see your point of view and I can't argue with concrete examples, but still, I'd urge you and all who feel the same to think of the bigger picture and the greater good where the vast majority of U18 players are concerned.

Let's say we had an U18 championship, with no decoupling, and Fethard had even just one U18 lad playing with them during their run through to the Leinster Final.

It would mean their minor team couldn't have fielded since about the middle of September, when evenings got too short to play midweek, and some 18-year-olds from Fethard and other clubs headed off to start college.

So, you'd have the entire minor championship held up until now. Even if it had reached the semi-final stage, with let's say 20 players per squad for each of the teams left in it, that would be 79 minor players left sitting around waiting for a fixture, all because of one lad who happens to also tog out with their adult team.

This is the reality of it. Be careful what you wish for."
Yeah there's plenty of merit to what your saying too I just feel denying all u18s a opportunity to play adult is a bit of a nuclear option when some sort of middle ground could be found, we could have some scenario's next year when lads out of u17 play u20 intercounty GAA in the 1st part of the year and then can't play adult level for their clubs later in the year.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 431 - 14/12/2022 10:42:25    2450377

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "Yeah there's plenty of merit to what your saying too I just feel denying all u18s a opportunity to play adult is a bit of a nuclear option when some sort of middle ground could be found, we could have some scenario's next year when lads out of u17 play u20 intercounty GAA in the 1st part of the year and then can't play adult level for their clubs later in the year."
I agree with you. The 7 day rule you came up with for u20s could apply to u18s also.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6661 - 14/12/2022 11:26:02    2450387

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "Yeah there's plenty of merit to what your saying too I just feel denying all u18s a opportunity to play adult is a bit of a nuclear option when some sort of middle ground could be found, we could have some scenario's next year when lads out of u17 play u20 intercounty GAA in the 1st part of the year and then can't play adult level for their clubs later in the year."
The middle ground currently being proposed in what's to go to Congress for consideration is that lads could play both so long as there's at least a 60-hour gap between matches (i.e. two and a half days).

But even this wouldn't be particularly workable. For instance, if minor matches were played on Wednesday evenings, a player couldn't line out again until Saturday morning. So he wouldn't be able to play in Junior 'B' matches on Friday evenings.

Wouldn't be as simple as just moving Junior 'B' matches to Saturdays or Sundays either, as there simply wouldn't be enough referees to go round when you consider the number of matches in higher grades that also have to be played on those days.

Conversely, if you fix minor matches for Tuesday evenings, somebody who plays adult on a Sunday afternoon wouldn't be eligible for the Tuesday evening match. Say the Sunday throw-in was at 2 p.m. - he couldn't line out again until 2 a.m. Wednesday.

A 48-hour rule instead of 60 might help, but would depend on when the clock starts ticking. If it starts when the first match starts (say 7.30 p.m. on Wednesday), then he could play again at 7.30 p.m. on Friday. But if it only starts when the first match ends (say roughly 8.45 p.m. Wednesday), then he couldn't play again until 8.45 p.m. Friday, and that's still too late for a Friday night match.

Or, as Viking suggests, maybe a rule like Wexford are proposing for U20/senior at inter-county level might help - where you could play one level or the other within a seven-day period. But then you'd run the risk of a young lad deciding to sit out a midweek minor match in case he's needed by the adult team three or four days later, and then maybe not getting a run at the weekend at all.

Am sure the powers-that-be would be all ears if you or anybody else could come up with other suggestions for middle ground, but overall, it's yet another case where there are no easy solutions, because every "solution" put forward has downsides and problems.

And yes, that includes decoupling, which obviously has a major downside too for the lads who'd be affected by it. And while it may well be the nuclear option, sometimes the nuclear option is the only one left when you've properly considered everything else.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1281 - 14/12/2022 13:27:57    2450398

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "Yeah there's plenty of merit to what your saying too I just feel denying all u18s a opportunity to play adult is a bit of a nuclear option when some sort of middle ground could be found, we could have some scenario's next year when lads out of u17 play u20 intercounty GAA in the 1st part of the year and then can't play adult level for their clubs later in the year."
Hard to know if there is any alternative available though - If an U18 was to play adult championship it pretty much puts their championship on hold for 12 weeks while adult goes ahead .. This is very unfair on the other players that won't be involved in adult teams .. its pretty much similiar to years ago where the last sub on a county minor panel could technically hold up the entire championship for his adult team!

The big sticking point i think was when Coiste CCC pretty much pleaded with this motion to be passed as otherwise in the months of September they would be under severe pressure to get finals played .. Personally I think there is no rush with pushing U18s to play adult .. I do understand certain teams are under pressure but for the development of a player I think another year makes a big difference to their physical development.

There was zero mention of U20 / U21 grade .. so no idea what is happening there

MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 96 - 14/12/2022 14:18:04    2450405

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I can totally see where ye are coming from lads, no easy answers like ye said, I remember listening to Donnacha Boyle from the Irish Indo on Off the Ball a few ago saying he doesn't think fixtures issues in the GAA will ever be fully resolved and I'd be in complete agreement with him.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 431 - 14/12/2022 15:53:27    2450416

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