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Good postings Tom/Pikeman.
Disclaimer - even though I grew up in Dublin I don't have any interest in football. Never did. But I know the plight of the "lesser game" and how demoralising it can be, so football is given its fair share in our club without a shadow of a doubt.
You mention the "what's the point" attitude, I think this might be referring to apathy towards the game caused by the reality that Wexford are not within a snowballs chance of being competitive against the big guns in Leinster let alone winning it like they were 15 years ago.
This is largely down to poor coaching, probably the same things that were identified after that minor hurling loss to Carlow in the noughties. Sadly, this is where the game is at.
But on that topic, I said a few weeks ago that Wexford hurling needs to target winning a couple of Tony Forristal's and an All-Ireland minor title by 2027 rather than the delusional aim of winning an All Ireland senior title. To me, this is where football needs to start as well, maybe targeting a Leinster minor by 2029 by which stage a 10 year old now is a minor. It is a targeted medium-term goal with a vision for the game and at least gives coaches, administrators, etc a goal.
Pikeman is right though clubs who never played football in earnest are now giving it a go, and having some success as he said with Buffers Alley, Monagear, Oulart and Rathnure all competing. More teams taking it seriously even for 2 months lifts the calibre of game on offer for player.
Be careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water or point at the split season as "killing football" when what has football in a bad state is much closer to home than many want to admit, i.e. bad coaching in clubs.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1128 - 29/03/2023 14:56:04
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Replying To countyman2022: "They must be all getting acquainted with their new club still." To my knowledge they weren't too many transfers this year, a few players moving but mostly for second team's
Lockerroomboy (Wexford) - Posts: 437 - 29/03/2023 15:16:58
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Thanks to the Dublin man now domiciled here.
The goal of winning a Leinster minor football title (or let's say at least reaching a final) by 2029 is a good one. It involves starting with kids who are 10 years old today.
A relatively large number of dual players can be accommodated in Academy squads up to about U15, so even if the better "all-rounders" are in both hurling & football squads up to that age, more of them might decide to stick with football when the time comes to choose, if they believe by then that the goal of the Leinster Final is attainable.
There's still a huge elephant in the room though, and it'd show itself even then, with some talented hurlers choosing football, and some talented footballers choosing hurling.
Have to be careful how I say it, because could be absolutely lambasted if people misinterpret it, but here goes: so long as we want to be a dual county, it's going to be damn difficult if not impossible to reach our full potential in either code.
For example, imagine the hurler Mattie Forde would have been if Kilanerin and every other club concentrated 90% on hurling. Or imagine the difference a Lee Chin would make to our senior football squad, if football was the main focus instead.
To make it clear, I'm not advocating that we should more or less forget about one code, and concentrate on the other. There's plenty of scope to improve our lot in both. But I am suggesting that this is a "bigger picture" factor that everybody should always be conscious of.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2246 - 29/03/2023 15:48:16
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Thanks to the Dublin man now domiciled here.
The goal of winning a Leinster minor football title (or let's say at least reaching a final) by 2029 is a good one. It involves starting with kids who are 10 years old today.
A relatively large number of dual players can be accommodated in Academy squads up to about U15, so even if the better "all-rounders" are in both hurling & football squads up to that age, more of them might decide to stick with football when the time comes to choose, if they believe by then that the goal of the Leinster Final is attainable.
There's still a huge elephant in the room though, and it'd show itself even then, with some talented hurlers choosing football, and some talented footballers choosing hurling.
Have to be careful how I say it, because could be absolutely lambasted if people misinterpret it, but here goes: so long as we want to be a dual county, it's going to be damn difficult if not impossible to reach our full potential in either code.
For example, imagine the hurler Mattie Forde would have been if Kilanerin and every other club concentrated 90% on hurling. Or imagine the difference a Lee Chin would make to our senior football squad, if football was the main focus instead.
To make it clear, I'm not advocating that we should more or less forget about one code, and concentrate on the other. There's plenty of scope to improve our lot in both. But I am suggesting that this is a "bigger picture" factor that everybody should always be conscious of." Been saying that for years. Even if we had areas which concentrated on one code or another like Cork, Galway, Clare etc we would probably be better at both. But in fairness all my kids really enjoy playing both. Most of our clubs are being true to the original ethos of the GAA by promoting both games equally. Good underage coaching of both would definitely improve us at both at Senior intercounty down the line. But it will still take another golden generation in either code before we win an AI in either.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 29/03/2023 20:59:22
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I saw it in Dublin when the best hurlers were "lost" to football - I say lost like that because some won All-Irelands and some just hung around squads for the gear and prestige when they would have walked on to the hurling team.
There is no easy answer in a dual county but if one game gets most of the focus, support, etc and players see it as a route to success, higher profile, career opportunities, and so on there is nothing - and I mean nothing - you can do to stop that happening.
You would think Wexford is a big enough county to do both, but Dublin couldn't even do it. Even other counties with cities (e.g. Cork, Limerick) can't do it. Galway sort of but the football and hurling areas are so distinct and separate and always have been that suggesting such an approach would cause WW3 in Wexford.
I have no answer to this and do not believe there is an answer to keep everyone happy.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1128 - 30/03/2023 09:40:30
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "I saw it in Dublin when the best hurlers were "lost" to football - I say lost like that because some won All-Irelands and some just hung around squads for the gear and prestige when they would have walked on to the hurling team.
There is no easy answer in a dual county but if one game gets most of the focus, support, etc and players see it as a route to success, higher profile, career opportunities, and so on there is nothing - and I mean nothing - you can do to stop that happening.
You would think Wexford is a big enough county to do both, but Dublin couldn't even do it. Even other counties with cities (e.g. Cork, Limerick) can't do it. Galway sort of but the football and hurling areas are so distinct and separate and always have been that suggesting such an approach would cause WW3 in Wexford.
I have no answer to this and do not believe there is an answer to keep everyone happy." There is no real answer that will keep everyone happy Exiled.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 30/03/2023 10:13:21
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To Pikeman96: "Thanks to the Dublin man now domiciled here.
The goal of winning a Leinster minor football title (or let's say at least reaching a final) by 2029 is a good one. It involves starting with kids who are 10 years old today.
A relatively large number of dual players can be accommodated in Academy squads up to about U15, so even if the better "all-rounders" are in both hurling & football squads up to that age, more of them might decide to stick with football when the time comes to choose, if they believe by then that the goal of the Leinster Final is attainable.
There's still a huge elephant in the room though, and it'd show itself even then, with some talented hurlers choosing football, and some talented footballers choosing hurling.
Have to be careful how I say it, because could be absolutely lambasted if people misinterpret it, but here goes: so long as we want to be a dual county, it's going to be damn difficult if not impossible to reach our full potential in either code.
For example, imagine the hurler Mattie Forde would have been if Kilanerin and every other club concentrated 90% on hurling. Or imagine the difference a Lee Chin would make to our senior football squad, if football was the main focus instead.
To make it clear, I'm not advocating that we should more or less forget about one code, and concentrate on the other. There's plenty of scope to improve our lot in both. But I am suggesting that this is a "bigger picture" factor that everybody should always be conscious of." Been saying that for years. Even if we had areas which concentrated on one code or another like Cork, Galway, Clare etc we would probably be better at both. But in fairness all my kids really enjoy playing both. Most of our clubs are being true to the original ethos of the GAA by promoting both games equally. Good underage coaching of both would definitely improve us at both at Senior intercounty down the line. But it will still take another golden generation in either code before we win an AI in either."
lefty (Wexford) - Posts: 185 - 30/03/2023 10:13:31
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "I saw it in Dublin when the best hurlers were "lost" to football - I say lost like that because some won All-Irelands and some just hung around squads for the gear and prestige when they would have walked on to the hurling team.
There is no easy answer in a dual county but if one game gets most of the focus, support, etc and players see it as a route to success, higher profile, career opportunities, and so on there is nothing - and I mean nothing - you can do to stop that happening.
You would think Wexford is a big enough county to do both, but Dublin couldn't even do it. Even other counties with cities (e.g. Cork, Limerick) can't do it. Galway sort of but the football and hurling areas are so distinct and separate and always have been that suggesting such an approach would cause WW3 in Wexford.
I have no answer to this and do not believe there is an answer to keep everyone happy." There is no real answer that will keep everyone happy Exiled.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 30/03/2023 10:19:09
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Thanks to the Dublin man now domiciled here.
The goal of winning a Leinster minor football title (or let's say at least reaching a final) by 2029 is a good one. It involves starting with kids who are 10 years old today.
A relatively large number of dual players can be accommodated in Academy squads up to about U15, so even if the better "all-rounders" are in both hurling & football squads up to that age, more of them might decide to stick with football when the time comes to choose, if they believe by then that the goal of the Leinster Final is attainable.
There's still a huge elephant in the room though, and it'd show itself even then, with some talented hurlers choosing football, and some talented footballers choosing hurling.
Have to be careful how I say it, because could be absolutely lambasted if people misinterpret it, but here goes: so long as we want to be a dual county, it's going to be damn difficult if not impossible to reach our full potential in either code.
For example, imagine the hurler Mattie Forde would have been if Kilanerin and every other club concentrated 90% on hurling. Or imagine the difference a Lee Chin would make to our senior football squad, if football was the main focus instead.
To make it clear, I'm not advocating that we should more or less forget about one code, and concentrate on the other. There's plenty of scope to improve our lot in both. But I am suggesting that this is a "bigger picture" factor that everybody should always be conscious of." And there it is!!
TheHogues (Wexford) - Posts: 26 - 30/03/2023 11:45:53
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Replying To lefty: " Replying To Viking66: "[quote=Pikeman96: "Thanks to the Dublin man now domiciled here.
The goal of winning a Leinster minor football title (or let's say at least reaching a final) by 2029 is a good one. It involves starting with kids who are 10 years old today.
A relatively large number of dual players can be accommodated in Academy squads up to about U15, so even if the better "all-rounders" are in both hurling & football squads up to that age, more of them might decide to stick with football when the time comes to choose, if they believe by then that the goal of the Leinster Final is attainable.
There's still a huge elephant in the room though, and it'd show itself even then, with some talented hurlers choosing football, and some talented footballers choosing hurling.
Have to be careful how I say it, because could be absolutely lambasted if people misinterpret it, but here goes: so long as we want to be a dual county, it's going to be damn difficult if not impossible to reach our full potential in either code.
For example, imagine the hurler Mattie Forde would have been if Kilanerin and every other club concentrated 90% on hurling. Or imagine the difference a Lee Chin would make to our senior football squad, if football was the main focus instead.
To make it clear, I'm not advocating that we should more or less forget about one code, and concentrate on the other. There's plenty of scope to improve our lot in both. But I am suggesting that this is a "bigger picture" factor that everybody should always be conscious of." Been saying that for years. Even if we had areas which concentrated on one code or another like Cork, Galway, Clare etc we would probably be better at both. But in fairness all my kids really enjoy playing both. Most of our clubs are being true to the original ethos of the GAA by promoting both games equally. Good underage coaching of both would definitely improve us at both at Senior intercounty down the line. But it will still take another golden generation in either code before we win an AI in either."
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 30/03/2023 11:48:19
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To lefty: "[quote=Viking66: "[quote=Pikeman96: "Thanks to the Dublin man now domiciled here.
The goal of winning a Leinster minor football title (or let's say at least reaching a final) by 2029 is a good one. It involves starting with kids who are 10 years old today.
A relatively large number of dual players can be accommodated in Academy squads up to about U15, so even if the better "all-rounders" are in both hurling & football squads up to that age, more of them might decide to stick with football when the time comes to choose, if they believe by then that the goal of the Leinster Final is attainable.
There's still a huge elephant in the room though, and it'd show itself even then, with some talented hurlers choosing football, and some talented footballers choosing hurling.
Have to be careful how I say it, because could be absolutely lambasted if people misinterpret it, but here goes: so long as we want to be a dual county, it's going to be damn difficult if not impossible to reach our full potential in either code.
For example, imagine the hurler Mattie Forde would have been if Kilanerin and every other club concentrated 90% on hurling. Or imagine the difference a Lee Chin would make to our senior football squad, if football was the main focus instead.
To make it clear, I'm not advocating that we should more or less forget about one code, and concentrate on the other. There's plenty of scope to improve our lot in both. But I am suggesting that this is a "bigger picture" factor that everybody should always be conscious of." Been saying that for years. Even if we had areas which concentrated on one code or another like Cork, Galway, Clare etc we would probably be better at both. But in fairness all my kids really enjoy playing both. Most of our clubs are being true to the original ethos of the GAA by promoting both games equally. Good underage coaching of both would definitely improve us at both at Senior intercounty down the line. But it will still take another golden generation in either code before we win an AI in either."
Even coaching officers will tell you such. Its not their issue or fault, they will go out and train whatever the club desires be that 50:50 or hurling/football etc. When they are going out to clubs theyre not doing 50:50, not even close.
First off in regards to the perception only 26 clubs actually bothered to even reply to the approach to have a football review in the first place which means 22 clubs have little interest in even having a discussion about football in the county so i think its safe to assume if they cant be even bothered having a discussion on the matter then football is hardly getting a 50:50 split here.
Secondly out of the 26 clubs that did respond 12 admitted that now there wasnt a 50:50 split in training and 11 admitted in a seperate question that football was not on an equal footing.
So 12 teams say they do it 50:50 out of 26 teams who actually had enough of an interest to respond. In any mans language out of 48 clubs thats a handful
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1337 - 30/03/2023 12:12:26
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Replying To tearintom: " Replying To Viking66: "[quote=lefty: "[quote=Viking66: "[quote=Pikeman96: "Thanks to the Dublin man now domiciled here.
The goal of winning a Leinster minor football title (or let's say at least reaching a final) by 2029 is a good one. It involves starting with kids who are 10 years old today.
A relatively large number of dual players can be accommodated in Academy squads up to about U15, so even if the better "all-rounders" are in both hurling & football squads up to that age, more of them might decide to stick with football when the time comes to choose, if they believe by then that the goal of the Leinster Final is attainable.
There's still a huge elephant in the room though, and it'd show itself even then, with some talented hurlers choosing football, and some talented footballers choosing hurling.
Have to be careful how I say it, because could be absolutely lambasted if people misinterpret it, but here goes: so long as we want to be a dual county, it's going to be damn difficult if not impossible to reach our full potential in either code.
For example, imagine the hurler Mattie Forde would have been if Kilanerin and every other club concentrated 90% on hurling. Or imagine the difference a Lee Chin would make to our senior football squad, if football was the main focus instead.
To make it clear, I'm not advocating that we should more or less forget about one code, and concentrate on the other. There's plenty of scope to improve our lot in both. But I am suggesting that this is a "bigger picture" factor that everybody should always be conscious of." Been saying that for years. Even if we had areas which concentrated on one code or another like Cork, Galway, Clare etc we would probably be better at both. But in fairness all my kids really enjoy playing both. Most of our clubs are being true to the original ethos of the GAA by promoting both games equally. Good underage coaching of both would definitely improve us at both at Senior intercounty down the line. But it will still take another golden generation in either code before we win an AI in either."
Even coaching officers will tell you such. Its not their issue or fault, they will go out and train whatever the club desires be that 50:50 or hurling/football etc. When they are going out to clubs theyre not doing 50:50, not even close.
First off in regards to the perception only 26 clubs actually bothered to even reply to the approach to have a football review in the first place which means 22 clubs have little interest in even having a discussion about football in the county so i think its safe to assume if they cant be even bothered having a discussion on the matter then football is hardly getting a 50:50 split here.
Secondly out of the 26 clubs that did respond 12 admitted that now there wasnt a 50:50 split in training and 11 admitted in a seperate question that football was not on an equal footing.
So 12 teams say they do it 50:50 out of 26 teams who actually had enough of an interest to respond. In any mans language out of 48 clubs thats a handful"]Sorry just to correct the log so to speak, out of the 26 clubs it was 14 who said they did have a 50:50 approach, not 12 and 11 of the 26 said football was not on an equal footing.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1337 - 30/03/2023 12:41:24
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Replying To tearintom: " Replying To Viking66: "[quote=lefty: "[quote=Viking66: "[quote=Pikeman96: "Thanks to the Dublin man now domiciled here.
The goal of winning a Leinster minor football title (or let's say at least reaching a final) by 2029 is a good one. It involves starting with kids who are 10 years old today.
A relatively large number of dual players can be accommodated in Academy squads up to about U15, so even if the better "all-rounders" are in both hurling & football squads up to that age, more of them might decide to stick with football when the time comes to choose, if they believe by then that the goal of the Leinster Final is attainable.
There's still a huge elephant in the room though, and it'd show itself even then, with some talented hurlers choosing football, and some talented footballers choosing hurling.
Have to be careful how I say it, because could be absolutely lambasted if people misinterpret it, but here goes: so long as we want to be a dual county, it's going to be damn difficult if not impossible to reach our full potential in either code.
For example, imagine the hurler Mattie Forde would have been if Kilanerin and every other club concentrated 90% on hurling. Or imagine the difference a Lee Chin would make to our senior football squad, if football was the main focus instead.
To make it clear, I'm not advocating that we should more or less forget about one code, and concentrate on the other. There's plenty of scope to improve our lot in both. But I am suggesting that this is a "bigger picture" factor that everybody should always be conscious of." Been saying that for years. Even if we had areas which concentrated on one code or another like Cork, Galway, Clare etc we would probably be better at both. But in fairness all my kids really enjoy playing both. Most of our clubs are being true to the original ethos of the GAA by promoting both games equally. Good underage coaching of both would definitely improve us at both at Senior intercounty down the line. But it will still take another golden generation in either code before we win an AI in either."
Even coaching officers will tell you such. Its not their issue or fault, they will go out and train whatever the club desires be that 50:50 or hurling/football etc. When they are going out to clubs theyre not doing 50:50, not even close.
First off in regards to the perception only 26 clubs actually bothered to even reply to the approach to have a football review in the first place which means 22 clubs have little interest in even having a discussion about football in the county so i think its safe to assume if they cant be even bothered having a discussion on the matter then football is hardly getting a 50:50 split here.
Secondly out of the 26 clubs that did respond 12 admitted that now there wasnt a 50:50 split in training and 11 admitted in a seperate question that football was not on an equal footing.
So 12 teams say they do it 50:50 out of 26 teams who actually had enough of an interest to respond. In any mans language out of 48 clubs thats a handful"]Anecdotally from talking to friends and other coaches/mentors as regards equality of split. Teams who put near enough 50/50 into coaching are-
Ballyhogue
Adamstown
Bannow- Ballymitty
Horeswood
Fethard/Clongeen
Gusserane
Taghmon
OLI/St Fintans
Geraldine O Hanrahans
Glynn-Barntown
Crossabeg-Ballymurn
Shelmaliers
Rathgarogue- cushinstown
Kilmore
St. Patrick's
And that wouldn't be all of them by any means only the ones I've come across.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 30/03/2023 14:04:32
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Quoting posts is getting a bit messy here, so I'll just start a new one...
It's true that only 26 out of 48 active clubs completed the survey on where football stands and what can be done for it, and that's obviously a disappointing return. But the list of clubs who didn't complete it includes a number of what would very much be regarded as traditional "football clubs".
What's that a sign of? Could be:
- it was genuinely overlooked or put on too long of a finger by club secretary while he/she attended to everything else they have do.
- or, could be a sign that these "football clubs" really are throwing in the towel and saying "what's the point?", content to just sit back and complain, rather than joining an effort to try do something about things?
As regards a 50/50 split at underage level - I think trying for a more or less exact 50/50 split across the board is probably unrealistic, and a more attainable target would be to keep things within a 60/40 band, one way or the other.
But even there, it's more nuanced than that. Again, I'll take my own club as an example, because obviously that's the one I know best.
Am involved at grades up to U12 myself, and we keep it as close to 50/50 possible. It might actually fall at something like 48/52, but you get the idea.
But as the lads get older, there's more of an emphasis on hurling. By the time they hit minor, it's probably 70/30, or maybe even 75/25.
So, ask us "do you have a 50/50 split at underage level?", and our answer has to be "no".
But ask us a different question, and you'll get a different answer.
"Do you have a 50/50 split for younger players in their real formative years, so they have equal opportunities to play both hurling and football, and can decide for themselves as they get older which one they prefer?"
"Yes we do".
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2246 - 30/03/2023 14:27:09
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Quoting posts is getting a bit messy here, so I'll just start a new one...
It's true that only 26 out of 48 active clubs completed the survey on where football stands and what can be done for it, and that's obviously a disappointing return. But the list of clubs who didn't complete it includes a number of what would very much be regarded as traditional "football clubs".
What's that a sign of? Could be:
- it was genuinely overlooked or put on too long of a finger by club secretary while he/she attended to everything else they have do.
- or, could be a sign that these "football clubs" really are throwing in the towel and saying "what's the point?", content to just sit back and complain, rather than joining an effort to try do something about things?
As regards a 50/50 split at underage level - I think trying for a more or less exact 50/50 split across the board is probably unrealistic, and a more attainable target would be to keep things within a 60/40 band, one way or the other.
But even there, it's more nuanced than that. Again, I'll take my own club as an example, because obviously that's the one I know best.
Am involved at grades up to U12 myself, and we keep it as close to 50/50 possible. It might actually fall at something like 48/52, but you get the idea.
But as the lads get older, there's more of an emphasis on hurling. By the time they hit minor, it's probably 70/30, or maybe even 75/25.
So, ask us "do you have a 50/50 split at underage level?", and our answer has to be "no".
But ask us a different question, and you'll get a different answer.
"Do you have a 50/50 split for younger players in their real formative years, so they have equal opportunities to play both hurling and football, and can decide for themselves as they get older which one they prefer?"
"Yes we do"." Apart from the predominantly one code clubs like Sars, Mary's, Harriers, Oulart, Joe's, Clonard that's the way I've found it . I've only been involved up to u12s myself and we haven't played any clubs further North than Shamrocks so I can't speak for the North of the county.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 30/03/2023 18:06:47
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I do wonder if there were financial incentives for clubs to have a 50-50 split in coaching both codes at underage level, would there be an upturn in clubs doing so?
As far as I know in the Gorey district most clubs do put equal emphasis more or less into the two codes, although you will always get a mentor who favours one and thus only puts token effort into the other.
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1417 - 31/03/2023 10:51:12
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How would you monitor if there's a 50-50 split? You'd probably have to have an outside observer at every single training session, with a stopwatch and clipboard.
Leave it to clubs to fill out a form or do up an Excel sheet to show that they operate on a 50-50 basis, and there'd be all sorts of scope for getting "creative".....
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2246 - 31/03/2023 13:23:22
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Replying To beano: "I do wonder if there were financial incentives for clubs to have a 50-50 split in coaching both codes at underage level, would there be an upturn in clubs doing so?
As far as I know in the Gorey district most clubs do put equal emphasis more or less into the two codes, although you will always get a mentor who favours one and thus only puts token effort into the other." Obviously the manager/mentors will have the largest say in what any team they are over do. If what you are saying is true of the Gorey district clubs putting 50/50 into underage training who exactly isn't then? Must actually be a very small minority not the huge majority people on this seem to be panicking over!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 31/03/2023 13:24:08
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Replying To Viking66: "Obviously the manager/mentors will have the largest say in what any team they are over do. If what you are saying is true of the Gorey district clubs putting 50/50 into underage training who exactly isn't then? Must actually be a very small minority not the huge majority people on this seem to be panicking over!" So Phillip Wallace must be telling fibs so, i mean the overwhelming evidence on here would suggest so.... lol
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1337 - 31/03/2023 13:46:21
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Replying To Pikeman96: "How would you monitor if there's a 50-50 split? You'd probably have to have an outside observer at every single training session, with a stopwatch and clipboard.
Leave it to clubs to fill out a form or do up an Excel sheet to show that they operate on a 50-50 basis, and there'd be all sorts of scope for getting "creative"....." Yeah i would agree with you there, in fact i would say going by your previous example that even some clubs who did put down 50:50 were in reality not 50:50
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1337 - 31/03/2023 13:58:08
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