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Wexford Intercounty Hurling 2023

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Through pure coincidence my dad was telling me about this meeting. His summary was "lots of problems, lots of shouting, very few answers".

Now that I am watching from afar and not involved, I don't believe Wexford will ever excel in either code as long as resources are 50/50 for each game and drawing from the same pool of players.

I get that people in clubs want to do both, but being honest the era of the dual player is over and bar a few examples the top dual club is finished too. Kilmacud Crokes have 1 dual player. Even Dublin with its 1m people or whatever can't do it, what chance has Wexford got? Kilkenny are hanging in there barely with 1 code. All the Munster hurling counties are doing nothing in football bar Cork who aren't great at either at present. Limerick hurlers have spent millions, yet where are there footballers? Same in football, practically every top county ignores hurling.

I get that the best hurlers in Wexford are the best footballers and vice-versa. But no way Jose will Wexford ever be top of either again if 1/2 of the time for players is being dedicated to something other than that one code. At underage, young lads and girls should be playing everything, but the time to specialise on one game arrives if you want to make the top of it and Lee Chin is just the prime example of it.

The bar is just too high now, so Wexford either accept their middle of the road status and proclaim themselves a great dual county and just stick to the average club game with equal status across the board in both codes or do something radical like have 15-20 clubs specialise in one or other code, or something.

People went on about Oulart and Rathnure fielding football teams when the reality is they are glorified pub teams.

I do not have all the answers but who said insanity was doing the same thing and looking for a different result.

I know this would be treason to many on here but jack of all trades, master of none.

Back on Monday to see the replies as away for weekend.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1729 - 06/10/2023 14:38:20    2507170

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Replying To Viking66:  "Some teams are only going April to September. Maybe the majority"
That is incredible. And you said there was resistance to suggestions of extending it. In Dublin U8 and 10 season is 10 months. The summer has plenty of gaps but also plenty of trips down the country for games.

wexfordwin (Wexford) - Posts: 120 - 06/10/2023 15:01:14    2507176

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Replying To wexfordwin:  "That is incredible. And you said there was resistance to suggestions of extending it. In Dublin U8 and 10 season is 10 months. The summer has plenty of gaps but also plenty of trips down the country for games."
It's definitely the majority who are only doing April to September. That's a large part of the reason for these meetings in the first place.

StoreysTash has addressed another real elephant in the room above, and I happen to agree with him. We'll never make significant progress in either football or hurling for as long as young lads are expected to split such a short time more or less evenly between the two.

For as much as many in Wexford like to proclaim "we're a dual county", we'd actually be far better off in the long run with a means for players to concentrate 90% or more on one code or the other, and without being judged for doing so.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2216 - 06/10/2023 15:21:44    2507181

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Replying To Pikeman96:  ""Development squad coaches should be paid too" would be opening up a whole other financial can of worms!

Anyway, the other difficulty still remains, of where you'd get 24 top people to commit to the new idea, considering most or all of the top people are already busy with other commitments."
Mihael Martin said one thing that was very right during the meeting. If Wexford people don't want to change anything as regards underage then they really should lower their expectations as regards Senior success.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11683 - 06/10/2023 17:35:35    2507199

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Through pure coincidence my dad was telling me about this meeting. His summary was "lots of problems, lots of shouting, very few answers".

Now that I am watching from afar and not involved, I don't believe Wexford will ever excel in either code as long as resources are 50/50 for each game and drawing from the same pool of players.

I get that people in clubs want to do both, but being honest the era of the dual player is over and bar a few examples the top dual club is finished too. Kilmacud Crokes have 1 dual player. Even Dublin with its 1m people or whatever can't do it, what chance has Wexford got? Kilkenny are hanging in there barely with 1 code. All the Munster hurling counties are doing nothing in football bar Cork who aren't great at either at present. Limerick hurlers have spent millions, yet where are there footballers? Same in football, practically every top county ignores hurling.

I get that the best hurlers in Wexford are the best footballers and vice-versa. But no way Jose will Wexford ever be top of either again if 1/2 of the time for players is being dedicated to something other than that one code. At underage, young lads and girls should be playing everything, but the time to specialise on one game arrives if you want to make the top of it and Lee Chin is just the prime example of it.

The bar is just too high now, so Wexford either accept their middle of the road status and proclaim themselves a great dual county and just stick to the average club game with equal status across the board in both codes or do something radical like have 15-20 clubs specialise in one or other code, or something.

People went on about Oulart and Rathnure fielding football teams when the reality is they are glorified pub teams.

I do not have all the answers but who said insanity was doing the same thing and looking for a different result.

I know this would be treason to many on here but jack of all trades, master of none.

Back on Monday to see the replies as away for weekend."
One radical suggestion was hurling in the summer, football in the winter. But the lad who suggested it used Oulart as an example of how to produce good hurlers, and likely be Lee Chin, once he isn't retired or injured, will be the only starter next year from the traditional 4 hurling clubs. Not a great return from 4 clubs who prioritise hurling.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11683 - 06/10/2023 17:46:41    2507200

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Replying To Viking66:  "One radical suggestion was hurling in the summer, football in the winter. But the lad who suggested it used Oulart as an example of how to produce good hurlers, and likely be Lee Chin, once he isn't retired or injured, will be the only starter next year from the traditional 4 hurling clubs. Not a great return from 4 clubs who prioritise hurling."
Are The Harriers one of the traditional hurling clubs in Wexford?
As an outsider I always heard Buffers Alley, Rathnure and Oulart were the big three?
Oulart are coming strong again at underage, I see less of Rathnure and Buffers Alley.
These things are cyclical and maybe the other half of the question is how good could all the other club players be if they focused on one or other code?
I see very entrenched views in some quarters regarding everything being 50/50 and good luck raising the issue, but it is so true to say its difficult to see Wexford winning anything unless something is done to get more top hurling and football in to club players, and schools also, if Wexford are to be competitive in hurling and football again.
Playing a 5-week championship and saying "that'll do" is a road to nowhere for both codes.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1115 - 07/10/2023 18:08:07    2507270

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Replying To Viking66:  "One radical suggestion was hurling in the summer, football in the winter. But the lad who suggested it used Oulart as an example of how to produce good hurlers, and likely be Lee Chin, once he isn't retired or injured, will be the only starter next year from the traditional 4 hurling clubs. Not a great return from 4 clubs who prioritise hurling."
I couldn't disagree with you more about Oulart.

They ruled the roost in Wexford hurling up until 7 years ago and won 13 x SHC championships between 1994 and 2016 and provided plenty of very good county hurlers during the 1994 to 2016 period including the All Ireland winning captain.

That cycle has come to an end now naturally enough the production line will go through a lull and I do hear a great crop between the aged of 14 and 17 are on the way in the club but I think for you to include in the ''not a great return from 4 clubs who prioritise hurling'' is a very short sighted comment to
make about the Oulart club.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 709 - 07/10/2023 18:15:30    2507273

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Are The Harriers one of the traditional hurling clubs in Wexford?
As an outsider I always heard Buffers Alley, Rathnure and Oulart were the big three?
Oulart are coming strong again at underage, I see less of Rathnure and Buffers Alley.
These things are cyclical and maybe the other half of the question is how good could all the other club players be if they focused on one or other code?
I see very entrenched views in some quarters regarding everything being 50/50 and good luck raising the issue, but it is so true to say its difficult to see Wexford winning anything unless something is done to get more top hurling and football in to club players, and schools also, if Wexford are to be competitive in hurling and football again.
Playing a 5-week championship and saying "that'll do" is a road to nowhere for both codes."
I didn't say a big 4 . Just 4 clubs that prioritise hurling.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11683 - 07/10/2023 20:55:54    2507290

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Replying To Past hurler:  "I couldn't disagree with you more about Oulart.

They ruled the roost in Wexford hurling up until 7 years ago and won 13 x SHC championships between 1994 and 2016 and provided plenty of very good county hurlers during the 1994 to 2016 period including the All Ireland winning captain.

That cycle has come to an end now naturally enough the production line will go through a lull and I do hear a great crop between the aged of 14 and 17 are on the way in the club but I think for you to include in the ''not a great return from 4 clubs who prioritise hurling'' is a very short sighted comment to
make about the Oulart club."
Their u12s are very good too I've seen them. I've nothing but respect for Oulart and any of their clubmen I've met. Like many hurling fans in Wexford I followed them on their many Leinster journeys.
I was merely making the point, answering another poster, that by having more clubs prioritise hurling over football we aren't neccessarily going to make our Senior team any better. I feel having half our clubs prioritise hurling and the other half football won't be the answer unless other changes are made.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11683 - 07/10/2023 21:00:28    2507291

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Are The Harriers one of the traditional hurling clubs in Wexford?
As an outsider I always heard Buffers Alley, Rathnure and Oulart were the big three?
Oulart are coming strong again at underage, I see less of Rathnure and Buffers Alley.
These things are cyclical and maybe the other half of the question is how good could all the other club players be if they focused on one or other code?
I see very entrenched views in some quarters regarding everything being 50/50 and good luck raising the issue, but it is so true to say its difficult to see Wexford winning anything unless something is done to get more top hurling and football in to club players, and schools also, if Wexford are to be competitive in hurling and football again.
Playing a 5-week championship and saying "that'll do" is a road to nowhere for both codes."
Harriers would be a very traditional club.

During wexford golden age they were producing top players. Particularly the 60s into the 70s.

Hopper McGrath, Ned Wheeler, Ned bugey, Larry o Gorman, Richie Kehoe, Jim Berry, Lee chin to name a few.

We always produce good underage teams but really struggle to hang onto seniors.

The current group have enormous potential with Richie Lawlor, Kyle scallan, Darby Purcell, Conal Clancy, Luke Murphy are all good enough if they stick at it.

Buffers alley nowhere near their prime but can always produce a player or 2.

From what I've seen oulart have a very good group coming.

The 50 50 thing is a load of rubbish.

If you want to know how to allocate funding look at the gates for club and county and you'll see clearly what wexford care about and rightly so.

Leave the football to counties who can't learn the much more complex skills involved in our crown jewel game.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2623 - 08/10/2023 06:13:38    2507311

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Replying To Past hurler:  "I couldn't disagree with you more about Oulart.

They ruled the roost in Wexford hurling up until 7 years ago and won 13 x SHC championships between 1994 and 2016 and provided plenty of very good county hurlers during the 1994 to 2016 period including the All Ireland winning captain.

That cycle has come to an end now naturally enough the production line will go through a lull and I do hear a great crop between the aged of 14 and 17 are on the way in the club but I think for you to include in the ''not a great return from 4 clubs who prioritise hurling'' is a very short sighted comment to
make about the Oulart club."
I am led to believe oulart were very lucky in the under 16 county final against cushinstown. Cushinstown led from the start and the ref said two mins of injury time. He played 6 and got a goal with the last puck of the game. There was a controversial point for oulart also with an umpire given it as a wide and another given as a point. Point stood. Cushinstown bet by a point.

Wexfordgaa (Wexford) - Posts: 251 - 08/10/2023 12:10:42    2507322

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Replying To Wexfordgaa:  "I am led to believe oulart were very lucky in the under 16 county final against cushinstown. Cushinstown led from the start and the ref said two mins of injury time. He played 6 and got a goal with the last puck of the game. There was a controversial point for oulart also with an umpire given it as a wide and another given as a point. Point stood. Cushinstown bet by a point."
You need a rub of the green to win a county final.

There is nothing lucky about the underage work going on in Oulart.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 709 - 08/10/2023 13:28:27    2507329

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Replying To Wexfordgaa:  "I am led to believe oulart were very lucky in the under 16 county final against cushinstown. Cushinstown led from the start and the ref said two mins of injury time. He played 6 and got a goal with the last puck of the game. There was a controversial point for oulart also with an umpire given it as a wide and another given as a point. Point stood. Cushinstown bet by a point."
Cushinstown are a coming team in hurling. Or a better way to put it are coming back. When I was younger they were really the only hurling club in the Ross district, although Adamstown obviously have the Senior titles from back in the 30s. Pretty much all the other clubs around here were better at football until relatively recently.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11683 - 08/10/2023 13:58:37    2507332

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Replying To Past hurler:  "You need a rub of the green to win a county final.

There is nothing lucky about the underage work going on in Oulart."
It's a shame every club isn't putting in the hours that Oulart are.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11683 - 08/10/2023 14:51:38    2507340

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Replying To Viking66:  "It's a shame every club isn't putting in the hours that Oulart are."
''It's a shame every club isn't putting in the hours into hurling that Oulart are."

I fixed that for you Viking :)

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 709 - 08/10/2023 17:07:13    2507357

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Oulart most certainly are putting in the hours Hurling wise but two important points are missing in that statement.
1.They are not putting in the hours football wise.
2. They have top class Hurling coaches.
95% of Underage teams out there cannot compete on an even keel with the amount of Hurling Oulart do because of a small matter called football but also even if they did they would not get to Oularts level because very clubs have as many good coaches working with all their Underage teams as Oulart have . Also great coaching going on in their schools.

Paull (Wexford) - Posts: 170 - 08/10/2023 20:44:33    2507424

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Replying To Past hurler:  "''It's a shame every club isn't putting in the hours into hurling that Oulart are."

I fixed that for you Viking :)"
There's clubs putting less hours into both hurling and football put together than Oulart are putting into hurling Past hurler. Although Oularts u12s were in div2 of the Football too;-)

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11683 - 08/10/2023 20:50:14    2507427

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Harriers would be a very traditional club.

During wexford golden age they were producing top players. Particularly the 60s into the 70s.

Hopper McGrath, Ned Wheeler, Ned bugey, Larry o Gorman, Richie Kehoe, Jim Berry, Lee chin to name a few.

We always produce good underage teams but really struggle to hang onto seniors.

The current group have enormous potential with Richie Lawlor, Kyle scallan, Darby Purcell, Conal Clancy, Luke Murphy are all good enough if they stick at it.

Buffers alley nowhere near their prime but can always produce a player or 2.

From what I've seen oulart have a very good group coming.

The 50 50 thing is a load of rubbish.

If you want to know how to allocate funding look at the gates for club and county and you'll see clearly what wexford care about and rightly so.

Leave the football to counties who can't learn the much more complex skills involved in our crown jewel game."
For a traditional hurling club and the population they have behind them they have very little to show. Two titles in the last 45 years is very poor for a club so big. I suppose other sports play a big factor in this

WexMurph (Wexford) - Posts: 161 - 08/10/2023 22:19:46    2507445

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Replying To WexMurph:  "For a traditional hurling club and the population they have behind them they have very little to show. Two titles in the last 45 years is very poor for a club so big. I suppose other sports play a big factor in this"
They do to be fair.

There's a few lovely hurlers playing soccer for North end.

Shane Dempsey an Warren broaders would be good examples. Two fantastic hurlers under age then went off to league of Ireland soccer.

Lee Murphy and Barry Nolan would be another two that had all the tools to make it but didn't for whatever reason.

I'd be surprised if the current group don't do something though. Although this year was a bit of a flop.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2623 - 08/10/2023 23:03:16    2507450

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Replying To Wexfordgaa:  "I am led to believe oulart were very lucky in the under 16 county final against cushinstown. Cushinstown led from the start and the ref said two mins of injury time. He played 6 and got a goal with the last puck of the game. There was a controversial point for oulart also with an umpire given it as a wide and another given as a point. Point stood. Cushinstown bet by a point."
Oulart were lucky to win . Cushinstown tried to play down the clock with one injury taking two minutes in the second half. The referee never mentioned two minutes of added time. He played the correct amount to allow for the delays. Cushionstown took nearly a minute to take there last free to put them 2 points up. Referee was in line with the point that he overuled the umpire and had the best view of it. Was a good game of hurling from both teams.

murt1982 (Wexford) - Posts: 10 - 09/10/2023 09:57:07    2507484

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