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Wexford Intercounty Hurling 2023

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I think the Kilkenny "wanted to send Wexford down" narrative is correct. But, once Wexford had fought for their lives like it sounds they did on Sunday, I think they realised how much Leinster hurling needed them.
i might be wrong in this but I think Brendan Hennessey, KCLR commentator is a Carlow man?
Most Kilkenny people would realise that a strong Wexford is good for Leinster hurling, its like when Rangers were relegated that time Celtic realised their 2 big games, in terms of gate receipts and TV funding, was lost.
I know a few Kilkenny people who loved seeing Wexford coming back in the Davy era. As they said themselves the rivalry was back. Particularly the old generation, Kilkenny still view Wexford as their Leinster rival but Tipp as their overall rival.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1337 - 30/05/2023 14:23:53    2482903

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Replying To Afinestick:  "I too am now conflicted whether Egan should stay or not. Is there any outstanding manager out there thats available and would want the job? Think back to 2018 we had a poor season with a limp exit to Clare in Pairc Ui Caoimh. People were calling for Davys head after that and the next year we came close to an All Ireland Final . I do think the set up needs some sort of freshening up with new ideas if Egan is to stay on"
I feel the same this week after being sure last week that he should go after the last game.
Pros for sticking with Egan-
1- He stuck with blooding young/new fellas all through the League resisting calls on this and social media to push for results. That showed strength of mind and a desire to stick with a plan. A necessary plan as far as I was concerned.
2- He is the sitting manager. A new manager would have to start from scratch pretty much. If we are going to get a new manager he would have to have his management team in place before the club championships start. Is there time for that?
3- He is a smart and successful man. And well organised. There have been plenty of learnings to be taken from the Championship this year and I feel he will be a better manager going forward for the experience he has gained this year.
4- his man management of some players, Jacko in particular and especially in the last game, impressed me.
5- in post match interviews some of the players had good time for him. If they truly believe he is the man for the job then they should show it on the pitch. We looked half hearted in most games this year.
Cons against Egan-
1-He shouts out too much from the sideline. We had a fairly simple gameplan he devised, mainly due to a lack of ball winning/catching ability in our half forwards and halfbacks. This resulted in balls being broken to the ground which were catchable, and also balls being broken to the ground when we had insufficient numbers there to win the 2nd ball. And because he kept repeatedly shouting to the lads to break or bat it down we became very easy to play against.
2- gameplan- despite point 1 not going well in many matches he pretty much ignored any kind of short game. If this is because he didn't trust his keepers to puck it out short then he needs to get a couple of new ones in. He should look hard at the position in the upcoming Senior and Intermediate club championships. If this is because he was reared up in Tipperary and doesn't believe in a short game at all he should watch the other top 8 counties for the rest of the season. Including his own. We need to mix things up better. We need plans B, C, and D and we need the players comfortable with all of them before the next championship. This means experimenting with them during the Walsh Cup and League, not shouting out all game every game to the half forward line to bat it down, and the halfbacks to do the same on the opposition long puckouts. We should also mix up pressing up on the opposition puckouts and not. We never pressed up, which again made us predictable.
3- playing lads who were visibly injured. It doesn't matter who the player is if he's not right he shouldn't play. End of. Especially after going to the bother of giving newer lads gametime in the League. He needs to show more faith in them.
4- in game management. There was a complete lack of this shown by Egan and his management team except in the last game. Lads who were tired and/or injured, or were just out of form, were left on the pitch way too long. Again, like 3 above, it's showing a lack of trust in the bench, which was, on account of his efforts during the League, much stronger this year than last ironically. Also we need to be able to change shape in game. For this we need to have more than the 1 bad shape we seemed to have at times. Particularly in the 2nd halves of the games against Antrim, Galway, Dublin, and Westmeath where we came out slow and he just let it go. You would wonder what exactly he said to the lads at halftime in those games. A good manager has his players playing better after a break, not worse. It was noticeable in most of the League games too.
5- lack of real conviction. We pretty much conceded the game in Salthill. Maybe he thought we didn't have to win it, but in a Round Robin if we have genuine belief that we can win a Leinster or go on a good run in the AI series, we need to try to win every game.
6- the opposite of 5 above in the pros for Egan. Has he actually got the support and trust of ALL the players? 2 of the better u20s from last year, Molloy and AJ, either didn't commit or left the panel early. Other lads like Cullen were in the panel last year and then left. It's no good Egan being pally with certain senior players and aloof from the rest of the squad. Yes Lee spoke well of Darragh, but the evidence before all of our eyes with the exception of the League game against Cork and last weekend against Kilkenny was that the players looked far from prepared to run through stone walls for him.
7- the injuries. 1 or 2 might be bad luck. 3 even. But when a panel suffers as many as we did you would have to question physical preparation, training, and S and C. I know all of these probably have someone on the management team looking after them, but ultimately the buck stops with the manager. We were missing for at least 3 weeks or more in the space of 4 months- R Lawlor, Chin, Devitt, Ryan, O Foley, K Foley, S Reck, D Reck, Higgins, Murphy, Firman, Carty, Mac, Mogie, Dee, MOH, ROC, Jacko. That's 18 lads and just the ones I know of. No other county panel had that much "bad luck".

Maybe most of the Cons are fixable. By him and not a new lad. I think the big one for me would be does the whole panel have complete faith and trust in him? Do they believe he really knows what he's doing? If they do they collectively let him down this year in both the League and Championship. Will they give it a better lash next year if he stays? Does he need to get a better sports psychologist in on his management team? I really believe it's not a lack of talent or ability, I think we have good players.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 30/05/2023 14:24:06    2482904

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Replying To tearintom:  "Have to disagree.

League and championship there's been literally 2 performances all year where you could say OK that's good enough. Two good performances and that's it.

Clare at home in the league was absolutely disgraceful, we have regressed at a rate of knots this year. Now whether all that is on the manager is another question but its been a season long malaise, not just one or two games.

Whatever the grand plan was for this year it has not worked"
100% tom, I had concerns all year about the performances and game plans. The performances v Galway 2nd half, Clare, Dublin, Antrim 2nd half, were terrible and those were the ones I saw. That Clare one is particularly memorable because it was so bad.
Redemption came on Sunday but I cannot see how it is anything beyond too little too late for this management team? No good hurling against black and amber and being terrible against everybody else.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1337 - 30/05/2023 14:28:01    2482912

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "100% tom, I had concerns all year about the performances and game plans. The performances v Galway 2nd half, Clare, Dublin, Antrim 2nd half, were terrible and those were the ones I saw. That Clare one is particularly memorable because it was so bad.
Redemption came on Sunday but I cannot see how it is anything beyond too little too late for this management team? No good hurling against black and amber and being terrible against everybody else."
If Egan is to go who are the likely candidates inside and outside Wexford

Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 30/05/2023 15:31:24    2482946

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Why do so many posters refer to the Clare league game so much? Cast your minds back to that day.
We were ravaged with injuries. Clare were short one or two but hugely stronger than us.
If Clare were hit by injuries as much as us and we had nearly a full strength side then surely we would have won with something to spare..
Our team was composed of guys with little or no intercounty experience. It was like a senior club team playing a junior or lowly intermediate team.
Unfair to critisise the hammering we got.
Remember too that during the league and round Robin some of our key players cried off during games or before. Egan hasn't got a magic wand and throw lads in with limited gametime and expect good results. The main thing now is that plans and structure are put in place for next year and hope and pray that we are not
hit by injuries as much as this year.
By all accounts the players like Egan. Chin went as far as saying he was brilliant.
I was one of many who asked for him to be axed..
But now I believe he should stay.
If we were to look for a replacement I think it would be a difficult task. Who is out there, be it local or outside the county that is available?
They are either managing or were managing and were sacked because of failure at top level.
Some will say maybe Keith Rositter should get the job. I disagree, let him stay with te u20s for another year and then he may well be the man for the job. Darragh for another year is probably the best bet. He does need to shuffle the deck a bit and try different tactics but he has surely learnt from mistakes made this year. If any lads out there have comments about the above I would love to hear them.

Magpie2 (Wexford) - Posts: 453 - 30/05/2023 16:12:48    2482961

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "I think the Kilkenny "wanted to send Wexford down" narrative is correct. But, once Wexford had fought for their lives like it sounds they did on Sunday, I think they realised how much Leinster hurling needed them.
i might be wrong in this but I think Brendan Hennessey, KCLR commentator is a Carlow man?
Most Kilkenny people would realise that a strong Wexford is good for Leinster hurling, its like when Rangers were relegated that time Celtic realised their 2 big games, in terms of gate receipts and TV funding, was lost.
I know a few Kilkenny people who loved seeing Wexford coming back in the Davy era. As they said themselves the rivalry was back. Particularly the old generation, Kilkenny still view Wexford as their Leinster rival but Tipp as their overall rival."
Think that depends on which part of Kilkenny a lad is from. We only have a border with one top hurling county, although there are areas of Wicklow and Carlow that would be as hurling mad as any area in Kilkenny.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 30/05/2023 17:26:40    2482985

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Replying To Magpie2:  "Why do so many posters refer to the Clare league game so much? Cast your minds back to that day.
We were ravaged with injuries. Clare were short one or two but hugely stronger than us.
If Clare were hit by injuries as much as us and we had nearly a full strength side then surely we would have won with something to spare..
Our team was composed of guys with little or no intercounty experience. It was like a senior club team playing a junior or lowly intermediate team.
Unfair to critisise the hammering we got.
Remember too that during the league and round Robin some of our key players cried off during games or before. Egan hasn't got a magic wand and throw lads in with limited gametime and expect good results. The main thing now is that plans and structure are put in place for next year and hope and pray that we are not
hit by injuries as much as this year.
By all accounts the players like Egan. Chin went as far as saying he was brilliant.
I was one of many who asked for him to be axed..
But now I believe he should stay.
If we were to look for a replacement I think it would be a difficult task. Who is out there, be it local or outside the county that is available?
They are either managing or were managing and were sacked because of failure at top level.
Some will say maybe Keith Rositter should get the job. I disagree, let him stay with te u20s for another year and then he may well be the man for the job. Darragh for another year is probably the best bet. He does need to shuffle the deck a bit and try different tactics but he has surely learnt from mistakes made this year. If any lads out there have comments about the above I would love to hear them."
Do ALL the players feel the same as Lee though?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 30/05/2023 17:28:01    2482986

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Replying To Viking66:  "Do ALL the players feel the same as Lee though?"
Can't answer that question viking. Maybe, maybe not. Although I would imagine that if he uses the word "brilliant"not good or very good it may be the feelings of most players. If a lad is not picked to play he may well have a different view.

Magpie2 (Wexford) - Posts: 453 - 30/05/2023 17:39:56    2482988

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Replying To Afinestick:  "If Egan is to go who are the likely candidates inside and outside Wexford"
Wexford men-
Fortune- Good intercounty and club experience
Rossiter- young coach but is he experienced enough yet? Would he be another Egan? Think he should stay with the u20s if he wants that job and get more experienced.
Ruth- good club manager
JJ- Had intercounty success with the u21s and camogie teams. Will get a look at his coaching 1st hand 2moro nite!!!
Travers- still gaining experience in Dublin.
Storey- iconic player and real hurling mad but maybe man management skills let him down?
Meyler- maybe out of date now?
Others-
Sheedy- great man manager but possibly tactically behind the times? Maybe just the man to get our lads playing their best every game though.
Cody- the best ever. Like Sheedy a great man manager. Far tactically cuter than anyone ever gave him credit for too. Elsie Walsh is from Wexford. But would he manage us against Kilkenny? Hard to see it.
Eddie Brennan- hope not.
Tom Mullaly- great manager and probably the only other Kilkenny man apart from Cody I'd like to see get the job. But like Cody would he do it?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 30/05/2023 17:41:30    2482990

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Replying To Magpie2:  "Why do so many posters refer to the Clare league game so much? Cast your minds back to that day.
We were ravaged with injuries. Clare were short one or two but hugely stronger than us.
If Clare were hit by injuries as much as us and we had nearly a full strength side then surely we would have won with something to spare..
Our team was composed of guys with little or no intercounty experience. It was like a senior club team playing a junior or lowly intermediate team.
Unfair to critisise the hammering we got.
Remember too that during the league and round Robin some of our key players cried off during games or before. Egan hasn't got a magic wand and throw lads in with limited gametime and expect good results. The main thing now is that plans and structure are put in place for next year and hope and pray that we are not
hit by injuries as much as this year.
By all accounts the players like Egan. Chin went as far as saying he was brilliant.
I was one of many who asked for him to be axed..
But now I believe he should stay.
If we were to look for a replacement I think it would be a difficult task. Who is out there, be it local or outside the county that is available?
They are either managing or were managing and were sacked because of failure at top level.
Some will say maybe Keith Rositter should get the job. I disagree, let him stay with te u20s for another year and then he may well be the man for the job. Darragh for another year is probably the best bet. He does need to shuffle the deck a bit and try different tactics but he has surely learnt from mistakes made this year. If any lads out there have comments about the above I would love to hear them."
Also why are we hit so badly by injuries? At least 18 players who started intercounty games for us this year have missed a minimum of 3 weeks with injury in just 4 months. Most have missed at least 6 weeks tbh. It's hard to believe that's just bad luck.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 30/05/2023 17:43:41    2482991

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I know for a fact that at least 6 players would prefer someone else over the team, so I dont know where you are getting all the players like Egan

hunting (Wexford) - Posts: 1130 - 30/05/2023 18:13:57    2483001

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Egan needs to go ASAP in my opinion.km

hunting (Wexford) - Posts: 1130 - 30/05/2023 18:15:18    2483002

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Well the year is over and what a dramatic finish. I have to say I don't know if I've ever been at a more dramatic game and once the Antrim result was known I was watching through my fingers. The team were heroic in my opinion and they pulled it out of the bag. This and the fact that we had impact off the bench are the only positives from the year really.

After the joy comes the feeling that we should be still involved. I don't know if a change of manager is warranted or not but a big improvement is needed. Loads of reasons for not performing and to be fair injuries really hampered them with the Reck brothers a big loss. The big question is if it's not Egan and Co then who else? If they do stay I think certain improvements are necessary.. I would also say that some of the social media stuff and local radio hype was shameful.

Probably also fair to say the expectations within the county of being a top four team are unrealistic but we are better than 2023 form.

I do know that the programmes that are being worked on with Niall Williams who is Director of Hurling are excellent and even last Sunday morning a small group of 18 year olds were in the Centre of Excellence being coached and working in the gym. From talking to a parent or the group he said that the work is top class and that Niall Williams was there along with the chairman to meet the players and encourage them. Apparently Egan has also been top
Class with the younger lads. A change of manager and chairman could set things back or could give a new life. All depends on who is picked I suppose.

wexfordwin (Wexford) - Posts: 191 - 30/05/2023 19:18:12    2483019

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I think there are only two internal candidates: Keith Rossiter and Joe Fortune.

I know some people are very against external candidates but I think Pat Bennett would be a very good shout, knows Wexford well (Was involved in the coaching set-up under Davy as well as coaching/managing Ferns and coaching Fethard), has both coaching and managerial experience, and brings a lot of energy to the table.

ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 491 - 30/05/2023 20:09:04    2483028

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Replying To Wexfordgaa:  "Did you not see eoin Murphy screaming and shouting at every ball Alan murphy would have done cartwheels around wexford park if that goal was allowed believe me I know the family Wally Walsh like a drink in the pump when he can. Get awyward loves giving it socks to us. Sit in the pump some night after kk beating us and believe me you will know what the wexford Kilkenny rivalry is like"
That sounds like good old fashioned banter to me by both sets of supporters who drink in that pub .Wouldn't take that kind of crack too seriously that's what makes living on a border so enjoyable unfortunately they have had many more good days than us but look the wheel is turning do drink up and enjoy.

Tiger1 (Wexford) - Posts: 340 - 30/05/2023 20:10:23    2483030

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Replying To Wexfordgaa:  "Did you not see eoin Murphy screaming and shouting at every ball Alan murphy would have done cartwheels around wexford park if that goal was allowed believe me I know the family Wally Walsh like a drink in the pump when he can. Get awyward loves giving it socks to us. Sit in the pump some night after kk beating us and believe me you will know what the wexford Kilkenny rivalry is like"
That sounds like good old fashioned banter to me by both sets of supporters who drink in that pub .Wouldn't take that kind of crack too seriously that's what makes living on a border so enjoyable unfortunately they have had many more good days than us but look the wheel is turning do drink up and enjoy.

Tiger1 (Wexford) - Posts: 340 - 30/05/2023 20:10:35    2483031

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Replying To Afinestick:  "I too am now conflicted whether Egan should stay or not. Is there any outstanding manager out there thats available and would want the job? Think back to 2018 we had a poor season with a limp exit to Clare in Pairc Ui Caoimh. People were calling for Davys head after that and the next year we came close to an All Ireland Final . I do think the set up needs some sort of freshening up with new ideas if Egan is to stay on"
There is no justifiable reason for continuing with Egan. Seems a very nice guy but this has been an awful season that one good win over KK can't gloss over. Last season was very average too let's be honest, thought we blew a big chance to turn over Clare but failing to beat Westmeath or Dublin and another day downing tools v Waterford in league semi final. Tactically we seem muddled really under Egan but especially defensively we seem poorly organised. That's even with a sweeper back there. We would be a laughing stock if we continued with him to be honest on the evidence of his two seasons in charge based on results.

Looking forward, what can change? I'd start with whoever is in charge of S&C needs clearing out. The amount of injuries to key players all season was ridiculous. The spine of the team needs complete change, new leaders need to emerge and be given opportunities to settle into key spots in the team. Not like that Clare league game where they were thrown in without any support or gameplan. Id give Joe Fortune a go, we aren't going to be winning All Ireland's any time soon but league finals, Leinster finals, All Ireland semis all achievable if everyone pulls together. Otherwise it's more relegation trouble ahead and maybe the odd 'shock' win v KK.

Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 402 - 30/05/2023 20:24:29    2483034

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Replying To Magpie2:  "Why do so many posters refer to the Clare league game so much? Cast your minds back to that day.
We were ravaged with injuries. Clare were short one or two but hugely stronger than us.
If Clare were hit by injuries as much as us and we had nearly a full strength side then surely we would have won with something to spare..
Our team was composed of guys with little or no intercounty experience. It was like a senior club team playing a junior or lowly intermediate team.
Unfair to critisise the hammering we got.
Remember too that during the league and round Robin some of our key players cried off during games or before. Egan hasn't got a magic wand and throw lads in with limited gametime and expect good results. The main thing now is that plans and structure are put in place for next year and hope and pray that we are not
hit by injuries as much as this year.
By all accounts the players like Egan. Chin went as far as saying he was brilliant.
I was one of many who asked for him to be axed..
But now I believe he should stay.
If we were to look for a replacement I think it would be a difficult task. Who is out there, be it local or outside the county that is available?
They are either managing or were managing and were sacked because of failure at top level.
Some will say maybe Keith Rositter should get the job. I disagree, let him stay with te u20s for another year and then he may well be the man for the job. Darragh for another year is probably the best bet. He does need to shuffle the deck a bit and try different tactics but he has surely learnt from mistakes made this year. If any lads out there have comments about the above I would love to hear them."
The issue with the Clare match was the team completely gave up, their attitude and approach stank and several of us said it on here at the time. It was acknowledged they were in experienced etc but they stopped trying and had zero fight.

Viking on your question, I was very surprised at Lee's comments. There has been arguments and disagreements resulting in Mark Fanning going and the benching of Conor Mac was related. Not sure Dee is a fan either by all accounts.

For me Egan has to go, but there is a problem in who would replace.

goreyll (Wexford) - Posts: 157 - 30/05/2023 21:07:18    2483035

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Replying To Afinestick:  "If Egan is to go who are the likely candidates inside and outside Wexford"
Martin storey with Alan Corcoran as a selector

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3580 - 30/05/2023 22:40:59    2483048

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Replying To Magpie2:  "Why do so many posters refer to the Clare league game so much? Cast your minds back to that day.
We were ravaged with injuries. Clare were short one or two but hugely stronger than us.
If Clare were hit by injuries as much as us and we had nearly a full strength side then surely we would have won with something to spare..
Our team was composed of guys with little or no intercounty experience. It was like a senior club team playing a junior or lowly intermediate team.
Unfair to critisise the hammering we got.
Remember too that during the league and round Robin some of our key players cried off during games or before. Egan hasn't got a magic wand and throw lads in with limited gametime and expect good results. The main thing now is that plans and structure are put in place for next year and hope and pray that we are not
hit by injuries as much as this year.
By all accounts the players like Egan. Chin went as far as saying he was brilliant.
I was one of many who asked for him to be axed..
But now I believe he should stay.
If we were to look for a replacement I think it would be a difficult task. Who is out there, be it local or outside the county that is available?
They are either managing or were managing and were sacked because of failure at top level.
Some will say maybe Keith Rositter should get the job. I disagree, let him stay with te u20s for another year and then he may well be the man for the job. Darragh for another year is probably the best bet. He does need to shuffle the deck a bit and try different tactics but he has surely learnt from mistakes made this year. If any lads out there have comments about the above I would love to hear them."
I do think his time is up

I'm beginning to hear a few things from around the camp, particularly about discipline.

The team were devoid of confidence and hung out to dry more than once.

The treatment of dee was particularly poor.

I won't look passed some of the good work he's done but one swallow never made a summer.

If we'd produced half of what we did on Sunday in the Dublin and Westmeath games we'd be preparing for a leinster final now.

The players know how to hurl. Much of what went wrong for me is mental, and that's down to management as far as I'm concerned.

Forget the Clare game. I can't see passed how we set up tactically for Dublin, or the lack of confidence in what we were doing in the park last week.

When Westmeath changed it up, we did nothing on the line.

That game was crying out for dee to come in and steady the ship, and Richie Lawlor or even Charlie mac to bring energy into midfield. Dee got about 30 seconds and we did nothing else. It's inexcusable

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3580 - 30/05/2023 22:48:47    2483049

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