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Wexford Intercounty Hurling 2023

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Replying To Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin:  "You've an awful habit to jumping on one point to avoid addressing the other....I said Mountbellew had had 5 lads on the senior footballers, lads on the minor hurlers in the all Ireland final, lads on the minor footballers in connacht final also produced minor hurler of th year a couple of years ago...Moycullen are senior in both atm. Had a lad on the 2017 all Ireland winning panel, have lads on u20s and minors with hurling and football. You've shot down every example I've used, I can use Clare, Cork, Tipp if you want as well. You don't a lot of deflecting when there is obviously something wrong when we can't do it. I don't how many examples more you need of clubs, county's, players able to do it, why do we except, ahh we couldn't do that. The last lad I remember us having that seemed to bring any attributes from football over was DOC or Darragh Ryan
Here's a record of all Ireland appearances since 96
Kilkenny 98,99,00,02,03,04,06,07,08,09,10,11,12,14,15,16,19,22
Tipp 97,01,09,10,11,14,16,19
Cork 99,03,04,05,06,13,21
Galway 01,05,12,15,17,18
Limerick 07,18,20,21,22
Clare 97,02,13
Waterford 08,17,20
Offaly 98,00
Why has every county got their day in the sun except us, not even to winning but not even getting there is the killing bit. 1 final appearance since the mid 70s, 1 win since the 60s. Might say ah look we've won more than this county or we won as many as this but Jesus at least they're getting close or set out to win an all Ireland or look like winning one. There hasnt been one year were that has been the case since 97, 19 after the leinster final and heading into 20 but then got pummeled. All these county's have had lows as low as us, some even lower. Clare, Limerick, Waterford have all been as low as us and were ale to get it right, they might be able to sustain it for more than 5 years at a time but they're still able to get back to those heights. We just plot along, nothing wrong here, watching all these counties pass us out and the hope they come back down to us eventually instead us trying to pass them out. It's so frustrating watching this happen. Not saying were the onlys ones struggling atm,Waterford are at a low atm and if not carefull mighnt shake out of it with their struggles at underage too, but at least they still got a couple of all Ireland's, didn't get over the line but God almighty I wish getting over the line in all Ireland's was our biggest issue the last 25 or so years. Don't know how I got on to that from football and hurling but look, I'm frustrated at a lot of things atm in Wexford, so soft excuses are really irritating"
That's all fair enough. If you read my posts that's not the only reason I think we are where we are. I'll go again and leave out that point altogether. What we need are answers to the reasons and there's no acceptable answer to that one anyway, being as if we go to a model of hurling and football areas and clubs that's doing a disservice to the games, and our children, as a whole.
1- consistency- I'm following Wexford since the 90s. This post can't be long enough to list the number of good perfomances followed by really bad, or at least indifferent, ones next up. Now this isn't any 1 group of players fault, as we have had numerous groups over the last 30 years. It's not any 1 managements fault either for the same reason. This one has me more baffled than most of the following points. For our only real success since the 60s it took a Wexford man who spent a large chunk of time in Clare as manager, along with some strong on-pitch leaders, to get the team of 96, that at the time wouldn't have been head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of hurling, over the line. Where are we going wrong? Is it because we over emphasise that taking part and enjoyment is more important than actually driving on to win, especially at underage?
2- playing numbers- We have a reasonable population in the county, which has grown hugely in the last 30 years. I know a large chunk of that population growth has occurred in dormitory areas in the North of the county, but what can we do to facilitate these parents, or otherwise encourage them to being their kids to the clubs? This leads on to the next point.
3- urban areas- I'm a member of a largely rural club with a largish village in the middle of the parish. Participation from the village is very low. This year a few kids were looking to join our group, some who were good enough street hurlers, but their parents plain can't afford it as they are on low incomes or social welfare. Theres a perception in these areas county wide that the GAA is a little elitist- you get picked if daddy has enough acres. How do we change this perception? How do we encourage these parents to bring their kids?
4- coaching in clubs- this year we have a new and very passionate manager over our group. He wanted the kids to train twice a week instead of once, and instead of an hour broken down as 40 minutes warming up, fitness and drills followed by 20 minutes of a training match, he wanted to do 15 minutes warming up and fitness, 45 minutes of drills and half hour of a match. An hour and a half. The kids themselves were all delighted. Eventually we got agreement on this but the resistance was eye opening tbh.
5- County Board appointed coaches visiting schools and clubs- JJ Doyles coaching evening has been put back a week. This will be the 1st opportunity I've had at the club to learn things off a well known county board appointed coach. There should be far more coaching training afforded to enthusiastic amateurs like me. Relative to other costs involved in running the GAA in Wexford this surely shouldn't cost too much.
6- length of the underage season- we run an April to September season pretty much. Most other counties seem to run from February til October, at least for training. Why can't we?
7- standard of our club championships- if we improve the underage training, and offer more, and maybe slightly longer, sessions of it over more months of the year, this would surely improve the standard of our club championships, which can be poor enough compared to club games I've seen in other counties. Basic stuff like passing a ball to someone on your own team instead of the other one, picking up the ball first time, and the speed and intensity of the games. If our club championships were of a higher standard then we would have more players better able to step up to intercounty.
8- pathway from underage- would it serve us to have a county board funded u22/3 development squad to provide a pathway to Senior? With an emphasis on skills, speed of hurling and S and C? Maybe meeting up once or twice a week, over winter maybe, and playing in house games as part of it? Several clubs have indoor astros which could hold these.
9- getting the best players to commit to our intercounty teams- obviously Jack Guiney is one of the better known lads that 2 successive managers couldn't get to commit, but there are several others. Part of Limerick's recent hurling success was getting the best underage players to want to play for the county as adults. Where are we going wrong in our approach to this problem? How come AJ Redmond and Cian Molloy, just to name 2 and 2 of the best lads on last years u20 team, don't want to commit? Are the lads being badly treated by the intercounty set ups? It's not a recent phenomenon so it's not like I'm blaming any of the current management teams. How do we get our best lads to want to pull on the Jersey?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 24/05/2023 13:09:46    2481222

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Replying To ElGranSenor:  "Offaly in 2018 lost four games by 15, 9, 24, and 17.

Carlow in 2019 lost four games by 6, 14, 12, and 15.

Laois in 2022 lost five games by 2, 23, 27, 26, and 18.

Wexford in 2023 have lost three games so far by 6, 2, and 2, and then won one game by 4.

I'm not suggesting that Wexford shouldn't be relegated should they lose on Sunday and Antrim win. But what I am trying to say is that it will be a bit freakish if Wexford get relegated (Not dissimilar from Oulart getting relegated in 2021). If Dublin had have beaten Antrim by a point rather than drawing, if Cathal Dunbar's shot had have gone the other side of the crossbar against Dublin, or if we hadn't have butchered multiple good goal chances versus Westmeath/let in stupid goals/not been the wrong side of a 22-8 free count, we'd be safe from relegation right now.

Again, Wexford have been poor all season long and have created a lot of our own problems but at the same time, it's been a case of Murphy's Law for our Seniors in 2023"
We would be in the Leinster final if those small things had of gone differently. But we aren't.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 24/05/2023 13:13:26    2481223

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Replying To HurlingBuzz:  "Have spoken to a number of people with the same view about attending the game on Sunday. Total Disillusionment with the team .All I'll say is this is the most important game for our county probably in our gaa history. The ramifications of relegation don't bear thinking about. Vital that we are loud on Sunday.
Win or lose there's a need for serious soul searching from all stakeholders in Wexford gaa next Monday and the guys who are paid hurling officers in this county need to seriously up their game"
Spot on.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 24/05/2023 13:17:35    2481225

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Replying To goreyll:  "I still can't comment on Sunday, I just don't have the words to describe my feelings leaving Wexford Park. Like many on here a long time supporter, go to all the matches, home and away and this Sunday is the first match I can't decide whether to go or not.

Sunday wasn't the first let down. The Clare league match still haunts me, if the players are not putting in the effort, why should the supporters? Westmeath had little support Sunday and didn't need it.

My niece says we have to, she can't understand why we wouldn't. Perhaps the future is bright"
Whatever about the current management and players the future of hurling in this county demands any of us that truly care will be there on Sunday, seen lads on Twitter saying they'll be nobody there should be free after last week etc. I know those lads well and the same fellas in 2019 were plastering all over social media them drinking in Meaghers for the Kilkenny and Tipp games then heading over to Hill 16, sunshine supporters of the highest order.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 24/05/2023 13:31:31    2481230

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Replying To wexford2012:  "I don't disagree but is not the current structure ione which clubs overwhelmingly voted to retain?? How could so many clubs get it wrong?"
By all accounts there was only 1 vote in it so alot of people still wanted to change.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 24/05/2023 13:39:43    2481233

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Technically, the Joe McDonagh is still part of the All-Ireland Senior Hurling Championship, winning it is akin to coming 3rd in Leinster. The only difference is that while you can win an All-Ireland from both, you can only win a Leinster title from one. That's why I don't think the player apathy towards the Joe McDonagh angle makes sense (Or at least it shouldn't make a whole lot of sense to the players).

If we are able to hold onto most of our current players, get a good manager, and manage to blood in the likes of Derry Mahon, AJ Redmond, Cian Molloy, Conor Foley, Darragh Carley, Richie Lawlor, Corey Byrne-Dunbar, and Cian Byrne as starters, then if we do go down on Sunday, we should go straight back up in 2025. Plus we'd end up having a Preliminary QF which is where whoever comes 3rd in Leinster would also end up. And we'd be even stronger again in 2025, with those young players becoming more and more experienced.

ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 491 - 24/05/2023 13:41:44    2481235

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Replying To goreyll:  "I hear you and I agree on the importance, but I can't see supporters turning out in numbers. I am sure I'll be there despite myself. KK supporters won't travel either.

As an aside, if the ref is as bad again too, I'll lose it! In reference to the post above re Murphy's Law, we have definitely gone out of favour with refs, very few decisions went our way this year in my opinion."
Agree about ref last Sunday as well. Let me be clear I'm not blaming him for the loss, that's on the team but why was a Dublin official appointed! People were literally tearing the hair out of their heads over some of his decisions. Surely Munster referees should be officiating in Leinster and vice versa.

HurlingBuzz (Wexford) - Posts: 548 - 24/05/2023 13:44:01    2481237

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Replying To goreyll:  "I hear you and I agree on the importance, but I can't see supporters turning out in numbers. I am sure I'll be there despite myself. KK supporters won't travel either.

As an aside, if the ref is as bad again too, I'll lose it! In reference to the post above re Murphy's Law, we have definitely gone out of favour with refs, very few decisions went our way this year in my opinion."
Thought that too about the ref but didn't want to sound like I thought that was the losing of the game.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 24/05/2023 13:49:54    2481242

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Replying To ElGranSenor:  "Technically, the Joe McDonagh is still part of the All-Ireland Senior Hurling Championship, winning it is akin to coming 3rd in Leinster. The only difference is that while you can win an All-Ireland from both, you can only win a Leinster title from one. That's why I don't think the player apathy towards the Joe McDonagh angle makes sense (Or at least it shouldn't make a whole lot of sense to the players).

If we are able to hold onto most of our current players, get a good manager, and manage to blood in the likes of Derry Mahon, AJ Redmond, Cian Molloy, Conor Foley, Darragh Carley, Richie Lawlor, Corey Byrne-Dunbar, and Cian Byrne as starters, then if we do go down on Sunday, we should go straight back up in 2025. Plus we'd end up having a Preliminary QF which is where whoever comes 3rd in Leinster would also end up. And we'd be even stronger again in 2025, with those young players becoming more and more experienced."
I would predict Mogie, Dee and K Foley are retiring no matter what. If we step down possibly Hanlon and dare I say it Chin. Mark Fanning got no acknowledgment stepping down which is a shame no matter what went down.

From what I have heard Paudie is not coming back from Oz anytime soon either.

goreyll (Wexford) - Posts: 157 - 24/05/2023 13:51:18    2481243

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Replying To ElGranSenor:  "Technically, the Joe McDonagh is still part of the All-Ireland Senior Hurling Championship, winning it is akin to coming 3rd in Leinster. The only difference is that while you can win an All-Ireland from both, you can only win a Leinster title from one. That's why I don't think the player apathy towards the Joe McDonagh angle makes sense (Or at least it shouldn't make a whole lot of sense to the players).

If we are able to hold onto most of our current players, get a good manager, and manage to blood in the likes of Derry Mahon, AJ Redmond, Cian Molloy, Conor Foley, Darragh Carley, Richie Lawlor, Corey Byrne-Dunbar, and Cian Byrne as starters, then if we do go down on Sunday, we should go straight back up in 2025. Plus we'd end up having a Preliminary QF which is where whoever comes 3rd in Leinster would also end up. And we'd be even stronger again in 2025, with those young players becoming more and more experienced."
Worst case scenario and we go down if we come back and come back up with flying colours akin to Oulart in Intermediate last year then I don't think it will have a lasting impact but the potential of a malaise setting in would be what concerns me. Also for a group of experienced players who have stellar service for over a decade or close a decade depending on the player this would be a awful stain on their legacy. Interesting that Keith Rossiter reckons about 10 or 11 players just over age for u20 were contacted last year about joining the panel this year and reckons about 5 took up the offer.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 24/05/2023 13:51:23    2481244

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Replying To goreyll:  "I would predict Mogie, Dee and K Foley are retiring no matter what. If we step down possibly Hanlon and dare I say it Chin. Mark Fanning got no acknowledgment stepping down which is a shame no matter what went down.

From what I have heard Paudie is not coming back from Oz anytime soon either."
In fairness to Mogie he wasn't too sure about coming back this year. I'd be very disappointed if anyone else left the panel if we go down. If we don't go down then fair enough.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 24/05/2023 13:53:51    2481245

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "Worst case scenario and we go down if we come back and come back up with flying colours akin to Oulart in Intermediate last year then I don't think it will have a lasting impact but the potential of a malaise setting in would be what concerns me. Also for a group of experienced players who have stellar service for over a decade or close a decade depending on the player this would be a awful stain on their legacy. Interesting that Keith Rossiter reckons about 10 or 11 players just over age for u20 were contacted last year about joining the panel this year and reckons about 5 took up the offer."
Overage for u20? So the Senior panel?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 24/05/2023 13:55:06    2481246

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Replying To goreyll:  "I would predict Mogie, Dee and K Foley are retiring no matter what. If we step down possibly Hanlon and dare I say it Chin. Mark Fanning got no acknowledgment stepping down which is a shame no matter what went down.

From what I have heard Paudie is not coming back from Oz anytime soon either."
Kevin Foley is still only 28, unless he's lost the appetite for intercounty I'd be surprised if he retired, maybe Fanning hasn't retired is just taking time out or if he has retired prefers no statements etc and leave in a low key manner?

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 24/05/2023 14:00:57    2481248

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Replying To wexford2012:  "Absolutely. I know this will annoy some people but for me its relevant as just as Wexford hurling is part of my identity so are the events of 1798, events that shaped us a people and which are all the more real at this time of year.

It will be 225 years to the day on Sunday, when on the afternoon of May 28 1798 the most significant battle of the rebellion took place when the United Irishmen stormed Enniscorthy town. I'm sure it would have been easier to stay away, keep their heads down, but instead these farmers, labourers, our ancestors rallied to the 'Green. '

Time again to rally to the colours, do our part, leave it all there and if we lose know we did what we could and died with our metaphorical boots on. Up Wexford."
That is the soul of wexford.

It's an insult to call it sport. It's an identity.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3580 - 24/05/2023 14:01:00    2481249

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "Worst case scenario and we go down if we come back and come back up with flying colours akin to Oulart in Intermediate last year then I don't think it will have a lasting impact but the potential of a malaise setting in would be what concerns me. Also for a group of experienced players who have stellar service for over a decade or close a decade depending on the player this would be a awful stain on their legacy. Interesting that Keith Rossiter reckons about 10 or 11 players just over age for u20 were contacted last year about joining the panel this year and reckons about 5 took up the offer."
Molloy and Redmond were arguably two of the best players on last years u20 and didn't commit for whatever reason. Will guys commit to joe mcdonagh especially the younger ones who may be away in college? You can have all the talent in the world coming through but there has to be a pathway put in place to bring them into senior especially with all the other distractions that are there. I see it with my own club who won numerous underage titles in recent years with a very talented group. It's scary to see how many aren't hurling today.

HurlingBuzz (Wexford) - Posts: 548 - 24/05/2023 14:34:23    2481261

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Replying To Viking66:  "Overage for u20? So the Senior panel?"
Yeah basically lads off last years u20 who were overage this year didn't commit to Senior in 2023.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 24/05/2023 14:40:57    2481266

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Replying To HurlingBuzz:  "Molloy and Redmond were arguably two of the best players on last years u20 and didn't commit for whatever reason. Will guys commit to joe mcdonagh especially the younger ones who may be away in college? You can have all the talent in the world coming through but there has to be a pathway put in place to bring them into senior especially with all the other distractions that are there. I see it with my own club who won numerous underage titles in recent years with a very talented group. It's scary to see how many aren't hurling today."
The commitment needed for senior inter-county these days is savage. That's just the way it is, and that's the way it's likely to stay.

If a young lad away in college in Dublin or wherever else has the choice of staying there all week long and going drinking and clubbing (and let's be honest, going "on the pull") on a Thursday night, or has the alternative of traipsing down to Ferns and back for a couple of hours of hard training with no guarantee he'll ever make the team at all, you can maybe understand why some would take the first of those two options.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 24/05/2023 14:42:42    2481267

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Replying To wexford2012:  "I don't disagree but is not the current structure ione which clubs overwhelmingly voted to retain?? How could so many clubs get it wrong?"
How can you say clubs go it wrong - the reality is there is a very small window of time for Club Championship to be played .. Regardless if we play alternative blocks between hurling and football, there is still the same time frame.

This was debated for a long time at county convention - and it was the bigger dual clubs who swung the vote in favor of retaining hurling first and then football .. The can concentrate fully on one code then for a period of time .. Alternative blocks would suit the stronger hurling clubs because they have time off between matches to train / fine tune ..

As for the U18 debacle - the fixtures committee swung that and pleaded for U18s not to play adult as it was very unfair on every other underage player in the county as their championship would be held up with the Leaving Cert first and then adult championships. Clubs would not play underage championship if they had U18s involved with adult teams.

MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 182 - 24/05/2023 14:47:18    2481272

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "That is the soul of wexford.

It's an insult to call it sport. It's an identity."
Thats what we are fighting for on Sunday. If we go down to the 2nd tier good only knows what the repercussions could be for hurling in the county.

Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 24/05/2023 15:04:39    2481287

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "Kevin Foley is still only 28, unless he's lost the appetite for intercounty I'd be surprised if he retired, maybe Fanning hasn't retired is just taking time out or if he has retired prefers no statements etc and leave in a low key manner?"
Hopefully he'll come back if the change of management happens as expected. I still think some of the issues lie with management and players not seeing eye to eye. Just on Kevin it is more so the effort put in for the lack of game time, agreed this could change next year too.

goreyll (Wexford) - Posts: 157 - 24/05/2023 15:31:14    2481300

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